Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

The last place I hiked barefoot was Enchanted Rock in central Texas. Mind you its not lava rock, but fairly rugged. I pride myself on how sure footed I am along with the thick pads on my feet.

I have lounged around many camp sites in my bare feet, which I am sure Herdman was also doing, and running after your dog in bare feet does not sound so implausible. Do you know the area where the disappearance happened? What are the camp grounds like? Fairly treacherous with bare feet? How about the surrounding area?

Just because your feet are tender, doesn't mean mine have to be.

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

His shoes were still there but the buddy offered him an extra pair he brought along, which might have been drier and more comfortable.

If that were true, that would surely throw the dogs off the trail if they did not have enough of Herdman's scent on them. Man that would be sad if true but I am still on the fence about the real answer to his disappearance.

I blame reporters for the mess this story has become---and too many people watching too much TV, causing the wild speculations seen in this thread.
I pray for the fellow and his family and hope that his friends' optimism is rewarded.
I've heard the author of the Missing 411 books many times in interviews and I've never heard him assert that the disappearances in his books are "supernatural" in any way. He simply presents the facts as he learned them while researching BigFoot reports. He also points out severe deficiencies in the National Park Service's reporting of missing persons.
I have no idea what happened to this fellow but I'll not go off on his friend or him, calling them stupid or untrained or capable of murder simply based on what some dimwit reporter typed into a computer. I simply don't understand that viewpoint---numerous posters claim that MSM is useless----then base wild, unsubstantiated scenarios on what the MSM puts out???? Pass the duct tape please, my head is about to explode!

I got snake bit on my property one night. Stepped on a snake right at twilight. I don't go around snake areas without shoes or boots any longer.

About the dog, how long was it gone? Wasn't it several days? I wonder how it survived, did it eat? If it killed an animal it would probably have some blood on it, no? Why didn't any of the searchers see it somewhere between the car and the campsite? Were the dog's tracks also at the stream?

Another mystery that could be solved if only dogs could talk!

I'm really curious how multiple bloodhounds can lose the scent of someone.

a reply to: lindalinda

the dog lost weight and was dehydrated...they hooked him up to an iv to put fluids back into him....

Fantastic thread, I absolutely had to register to add to the conversation. Creek bed, boulders, no shoes, and a dog. These are all too familiar elements for everyone here that is familiar with Missing 411. I felt compelled to point this out: One other piece of odd, applicable information is that just to the south east of the last known campground is the area known as "Devils Gate." As many of you know David Paulides has pointed out that a large number of these disappearances occur at or around locations with the word devil in the name. Do a search for a Sespe wilderness area map and devils gate in the los padres forest. They were hiking directly into the valley rubbing up against devils gate. They are essentially the same area. or here is a link to devils gate on a map, followed by a link to the sespe area:

www.hikelospadres.com...
www.hikespeak.com...

Also, the scenario where a dog runs into the woods, owner chases, owner is never seen again, dog returns is another common thread in these cases. I can't even begin to guess what is happening in these disappearances but i do know that luring of canines is an observed behavior of some predatory animals (coyotes comes to mind).


I hope to god they find this man alive. we know he has already been through hell. My prayers are with him and his family. And i also hope that we begin educating the general public regarding our national parks. something is happening to men women and children and far too many people are unaware of the possible danger that lurks within our undeveloped land

a reply to: seahawkshos040

May I welcome you here with your first star... Hope you will have the best stay and be part of the group that makes ATS better.....

Randy many stars but only one flag thanks for this sad post done wonderfully well and a star to each contributor...

I am blown away by the dog... its like he wants to tell someone something and get back to where ever it was his nose led him to.

We have all this money to kill people that have killing each other since the start of written history but nothing except volunteers to search for a repeated hero. If anyone was worth a huge search with no expenses spared its a fire fighter who has so many times risked ones personal safety for unknown people and again repeatedly. Where is this gentlemans heroes. Like many here I would love to go and help with the search but a huge pond separates me from my homeland making that impossible.

I also fear that with time marching on this will be another statistic and a sad story...

Thanks again Randy for such an outstanding thread and those who continued the story with links...

originally posted by: IceHappy
a reply to: seahawkshos040

May I welcome you here with your first star... Hope you will have the best stay and be part of the group that makes ATS better.....

Randy many stars but only one flag thanks for this sad post done wonderfully well and a star to each contributor...

I am blown away by the dog... its like he wants to tell someone something and get back to where ever it was his nose led him to.

We have all this money to kill people that have killing each other since the start of written history but nothing except volunteers to search for a repeated hero. If anyone was worth a huge search with no expenses spared its a fire fighter who has so many times risked ones personal safety for unknown people and again repeatedly. Where is this gentlemans heroes. Like many here I would love to go and help with the search but a huge pond separates me from my homeland making that impossible.

I also fear that with time marching on this will be another statistic and a sad story...

Thanks again Randy for such an outstanding thread and those who continued the story with links...

The world should work that way but sadly, it doesn't. A paid Search team just isn't in the budget(eye roll) maybe if our politicians didn't give themselves such huge paychecks and took less vacations it would be budgeted in.

As for the dog, it would be worth a try for them to take it out with them on the search

so now the dog is back and their officially scaling back the search effort. terrible news to hear that they have made a decision to decrease the search effort. and that certainly doesn't bode well for the missing person and his family.

Search For Missing Firefighter Scaled Back

what's also interesting is there is mixed reporting about the kind of dog. initially, i had guessed the dog was a chocolate lab from the first photo i saw. then someone posted an article that said the dog was a vizsla, which didn't seem right to me. so i went digging trying to find any other article confirming the dogs breed. no other article stated the actual type of dog and the dogs appearance didn't exactly match a vizsla.

But, the article above states

Authorities have been hoping the dog, Duke, can lead them to Herdman, but despite multiple sightings of the German shorthair mix, they had not been able to catch the dog.

so it looks like the dog is a mix breed, or a mutt. so that makes it even harder to pin down the dogs traits as it may contain traits from several types of breeds.

Also, there is still absolutely NO mention of the friend being a suspect. This is not a murder investigation and there is no evidence of that so far. If anything, I would be willing to be that they could give the friend a polygraph, at which point he would pass and his name would be cleared.

I don't think it's any coincidence that the spot where he went missing directly coincides with one of Paulide's cluster points in the map below. He's not the first person who's disappeared without a trace in that area. The bottom most cluster in california is almost exactly where this guy went missing from.

This video condenses 8 hours of Search and Rescue efforts for Herdman into a few minutes. It gives you a good feel for the terrain where he went missing and for what a SAR team experiences.



'Not looking good for Herdman as the days go by, although his friends and family say that he could survive for weeks in the wild. If the case holds true to the Paulides profiles, the SAR team should go back and re-search areas that they've already searched hundreds of times.

If he didn't fall victim to an injury initially south or SE of the camp area then search a bit west and NW of it. The dog was said to have been NW at one point. Maybe he missed the campsite on the way back and end up west of it.

a reply to: Witness2008

So you're proud you hike around in barefeet and lounge around a campsite in barefeet. Good for you. That still doesn't hold any weight with me. Again, if you are TRAVELING in ANY type of terrain in the backcountry you are ignorant not to have the proper footwear. Lounging around camp and backpacking into the wilderness and playing around some rocks and over some boulders are very different things.

I know the area of Los Padres fairly well. I'm in SoCal and I know the type of topography, and wildlife that inhabits these types of places. Rattlesnakes are EVERYWHERE here and if there is one intelligent good reason to wear footwear when out in the wild it's a big one. Also cougars have mauled to death several people right here in the county in Suburbia!!!! One was partially buried alive until he was found. His heart had been ripped out as well.

Falls are one of the biggest reasons for people getting injured in the wilderness hiking i.e. twisting ankles, breaking a leg, splitting their head open. Being a firefighter has no bearing on being an avid outdoorsman in my opinion neither does taking up ocean recreation like boating or whatever else this guy was doing. Moving and traveling in the backcountry requires a specific set of skills and knowledge. People think just because I'm an Eagle Scout I would survive days or weeks in the woods in a similar situation. LOL…..those skills were learned decades ago and have no bearing on me being able to survive. Survival skills need to be honed and practiced, perferably in real life environments. Even most of these search and rescuers probably couldn't hack it living let alone surviving in the wild for any significant amount of time. They are highly trained but again what does that mean?

On another point…..that video pretty much lends itself to the reality of the situation. The area they are searching is HUGE! Massive! Even the 3 rescuers couldn't really cover that much ground.

People underestimate the power of nature and the wild. Let's put all this Paulides crap aside for a second. It's too early for that.

I'd like to know more about his friend. Who is he? How long have they known each other? It's no different than a murder case. Nobody can be ruled out.

a reply to: graceunderpressure

Thanks for the video. It speaks volumes.

As for his friends and family they are idiots if they believe he can survive weeks in that type of environment without water. Especially if he was injured or in shock. Which are most likely. Something goes wrong and that changes everything. Most people could "survive" weeks in the woods if they just sat down and waited by a water source. But that's not how things go. Injuries, lack of water, lack of food, predators. Etc. It's a wild card out there. Not an ideal situation.

Man I was really surprised to see those streams with so much water in them considering the drought. Those are a huge draw for mountain lions and other wildlife. Including nefarios humans who you can bet are living in the backcountry.

a reply to: roadgravel

wow! I missed this little tidbit! This has always been my gut feeling. This is becoming a HUGE problem in our national forests and parks. It's ashame. You can't even hike into the backcountry to get away from it all anymore without running into some nefarious human drug peddlers.

There have been several instances where bodies have been found years later of missing person in CA wilderness areas.

On another site someone made a funny…….brokeback camping trip gone wrong. Think about that for a minute. What if these two guys were closet homosexuals or lovers or what not. Or maybe Herdman was a full fledged closet homosexual and decides to persuade his new fire buddy to come out to the woods with him. Maybe he comes on to him and Byars gets disgusted or whatever and kills him. There are a lot more closet homosexuals in manly professions and professional sports than most people realize. It's actually fairly ironic but very true. Look at the cross dressing Navy SEAL that was in the news a few months ago. Truth is much stranger than ficiton.!!!

Regardless the friend has been the one giving all the info. Nothing he says could be true. Even he should realize why people would be looking at him as being suspect number one! Sucks for him but until they find him……...

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys

you can call Paulide's research crap. but as a former law officer he's done the footwork and investigated literally hundreds and hundreds of missing persons cases exactly like this one we're talking about. if you gave just one of his books a read you might actually think differently. i'm not sure if you know anything 1st hand about his research or if you're just forming your opinion based on what people have said in here so far. but, his books are solely informational reporting. divided up on a individual case by case basis. the books are more like data-bases. and the reason people keep coming in here and saying his name is because the details of this case fit a specific profile of missing person.

granted, this is far from over and we'll have to wait to see if they ever find his body and if so what the conditions are. alive or dead. who knows.

and if the police aren't considering the friend as a suspect, that means there's nothing pointing them in that direction so far. meaning we shouldn't look in that direction just because it would be a convenient way to tie this all up and place the blame on him. and to even go a step further and start claiming it was some kind of homosexual liaison or that NONE of what he said is the truth..... i mean, jesus christ, that's completely irresponsible. we need to keep our minds open to the possibility that this disappearance isn't that simple and the parks department is not entirely ignorant of this. there have been a handful of former parks employees who have attested to these bizarre, often under-reported and unique brand of missing person cases.

a reply to: CallmeRaskolnikov

I'm VERY familiar with Paulide research. I've read his first book and I've listened to ALL of his interviews on Youtube on shows like C2C. I'm a huge believer in his work. BUT not every single disappearance of people who aren't found have anything to do with his theories. And LOTS of people go missing every year in cities, in suburbs, in wilderness. And many are never found again. And there are holes in many of Paulides stories. He has made some outright lies and half truths in his books and repeats them in his interviews. The one about the little kid that was snatched in Smoky Mountain park or whatever….he claims the Special Forces were called in or doing a training exercise or something. That was not true at all. I forget the details. But dont' forget Paulides is human like anyone else. He seeks fame and money like every other human being to some extent. Also many of his missing person cases aren't all that bizarre. An african american bird watcher goes out missing. Ok …….who knows what happened. In his particular case if could be literally ANYTHING that happened to him. The story about the old lady that was in Canada guarding a fire tower who disappeared and left a pot of boiling mac and cheese on the stove or whatever………that sounds simply like foul play. And Paulides definitely embellishes that story. I've actually been on other boards where people have discussed that case and there was A LOT of details left out of Paulides book about it. Many of his cases could be simply foul play.


And I suggest you spend a few days watching ID on cable. Thousdands of murder and missing persons stories. To think a homosexual trist is anymore out there than aliens or bigfoot is what is irresponsible and pathetic. I'm not saying authorities should publicly be entertaining theories like that but for discussion it's completely relevant and justifiable.

you suggest i spend more time watching cable tv. because alien and bigfoot are irresponsible and pathetic. but entertaining the theory that his friend was a murdering homosexual is completely relevant and justifiable even. ok...next