Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

a reply to: [post=18063798]ChiefD[/post


www.latimes.com...

4 of the searchers have been injured ....1 was bit by a rattle snake, 1 twisted an ankle, heat exhaustion... so I can't image barefoot missing man not being injured or something weird happened (like missing 411 stories)




latest story now up to 5 injuries.that snake bite on the hand was really bad and required 52 vials of antivenom.....

the missing firefighter had a lot of experience camping and hiking...the friend who went with him...this was his first experience...

90 trained searchers turned out today to look...

Said to be trained firemen/paras do this? Really sounds fishy and it is why I no longer give as much credit to people's competence as I once did.

If they don't find in in a hole or off a cliff in the area, it's not the real story were have been told.

a reply to: roadgravel


here is a bit about the searchers from the post I made above you with the link

The searchers, trained in mountain rescue, are scouring a 50-square-mile area of canyons, cliffs and boulder-clogged creeks. They come from agencies throughout the state and the federal Department of Homeland Security.

a reply to: research100

I am talking about the two campers.

Missie! Get out of my head ><

originally posted by: Missmissie173
What if the friend saw something that he is afraid to report? Either because people would think he is nuts and crackers, or in fear that the something would come after him?

This thought has been bugging me all day. It's an idea that's been nagging at me whilst at work non-stop. The only problem I have is how to rationalise it.
Something enters or approaches the camp. Dog bolts. Herdman bolts. Byars (sp?) freezes. Why would whatever it was not grab him? The only reason I can have is one that brings me back to Paulides... Something intelligent had chosen Herdman. It had decided that he was what it wanted, and so split them up the simplest way.
Byars either forgets what it was he saw, or (more likely) attempts to convince himself he was mistaken and Herdman simply bolted after his dog to try and catch it.
Problem is, in my humble opinion, that would be a very good reason for the state he was in when he was finally discovered by the fishermen. Confused, tired, lost, shook up. Realistically, a man alone looking for someone has little chance. It'd make sense to search the immediate area and, after seeing no sign, to get help straight away. Not wander through the woods to such an extent that you yourself become lost...if indeed he was lost, and not simply avoiding returning to the camp...

And due respect to all here, I want to reiterate that the police currently have no reasonable suspicion his friend has committed any act of aggression towards him. As Missmissie stated earlier, he seems more confused and bewildered than anything else. Hasn't proclaimed himself innocent, hasn't expressed any guilt or or indicated in any way he is other than sad and incredibly unsure of what exactly is going on.

originally posted by: roadgravel
Said to be trained firemen/paras do this? Really sounds fishy and it is why I no longer give as much credit to people's competence as I once did.

If they don't find in in a hole or off a cliff in the area, it's not the real story were have been told.

Although, gravel, I'm pretty sure that whatever story we get won't be the real one. Herdman's behaviour is not rational. It's not even foolish. It was completely contradictory to his survival instinct. There is almost certainly something more to this than has been told. And the fact US gov't is moving to ban private drones over National Parks? Veeeeeeery fishy. What is there in the parks we aren't allowed to see?

originally posted by: research100
The searchers...are scouring a 50-square-mile area of canyons, cliffs and boulder-clogged creeks.

I heard that too. FIFTY square miles??? 32,000 acres!?!?!? And they've not found a single spot of physical evidence???

Byers part has evolved into spending two days trying to get back to the parking area. These two can't even look for a dog without each getting lost. No team work or plan. Since the story sounds like Byers waited all night at the camp, he must not have gone very far before being separated and did make it back to camp. But the reporting could also be wrong.

Something went on, but it was with these two, not aliens or big foot.

a reply to: roadgravel


they are both firefighters, the one who went missing had camping hiking experience....this was the first camping experience for his friend

a reply to: research100

That's the thing, just because you go camping and hiking a lot doesn't mean that you have any kind of serious wilderness skills

No this is odd.Considering the rocky terrain just how far could a barefoot man travel?? Not very far I'd bet.And certainly not far enough where 50 searchers couldn't find him.Very strange.

I am saying these trained men were not good at wilderness stuff. And fire firefighters not working as a team when there is trouble? It's being over hyped to cover something.

What I haven't heard anything about is....SOUNDS....???

Byers gave all the visual and temporal details, but what did he HEAR?
All we read about is this fast action silent movie!

What sounds did the dog Duke make while hi-tailing it from the campsite? Yelps? (fright). Barks? (alarm), etc.
Dogs make different sounds for different signals. Dogs have language that can be decoded.

What sounds did Byers hear Herdman making when he bolted away in his shorts and t-shirt...and no shoes.
Did he shout in anguish at his dog running away? Did he call Duke's name?
Did he swear holy sh*t!, or any quick words to tell his friend what he was doing? Did they have fast dialogue to agree what tack they were going to take to find the dog?
Did whistles and calls ensue, indicating which way Herdman went?...He must have been calling after his dog, shouting "Duke"....., hollering, whistling; and that had to have echoed across the whole terrain?

Was the wind whistling through the trees and boulders? Any calls from disturbed wildlife? Any other human voices?

Did investigators ask about the sounds?
And if not...why not?

Has anyone speculated on this being a military experiment?
Low frequency sound waves...or even the opposite, hi frequency sound waves?...(that would drive a dog batty!).
Remotely controlled ELFs, vibationary frequencies that can control the brain?

So, no more drones allowed over National Parks?....Hmmmmm!

Did anyone remember reading 'The Tenth Insight', by James Redfield?

I know that's alot of questions, but they're all related...

a reply to: Starling
I have seen it said/speculated in this thread that it was night-time when the dog took off...and Herdman followed.
I, however, have not seen that bit of information in any of the articles I've read on the matter.
If it was nighttime, and the dog ran away/left from the campsite, we have another question to consider - "Who would leave the campsite to find/retrieve their dog without a flashlight?"
I'm sure there are exceptional situations that would make this perfectly sane...but, it seems strange, to me.

Otherwise - as I said, I am not familiar with the source information that would have placed the timing of the 'event' at night. If you have a link to such a source, would you mind directing me there?
Thanks.

Authorities from a helicopter spotted a marijuana cultivation site this week northwest of where Herdman was last seen, Buschow said. Authorities did not know the size of the operation or how far it is from the two firefighters’ campsite.

There is no evidence that Herdman was at the site of the illegal operation, Buschow said.

Link

Spotted from a helicopter but have no idea of the size. Sure, I believe that is government BS.

originally posted by: WanDash
a reply to: Starling
I have seen it said/speculated in this thread that it was night-time when the dog took off...and Herdman followed.
I, however, have not seen that bit of information in any of the articles I've read on the matter.
If it was nighttime, and the dog ran away/left from the campsite, we have another question to consider - "Who would leave the campsite to find/retrieve their dog without a flashlight?"
I'm sure there are exceptional situations that would make this perfectly sane...but, it seems strange, to me.

Otherwise - as I said, I am not familiar with the source information that would have placed the timing of the 'event' at night. If you have a link to such a source, would you mind directing me there?
Thanks.

No, I haven't heard mention of it being day or night.
That's what's infuriating about this event. A severe lack of details...about EVERYTHING.
Ok, so Byers is in a delirious state of shock, but why are they still coddling him?
What is so sensitive that he can't give more details?
Day by day, more impressions should surface, vague as they may be.

And correct about the flashlight...and likewise, shoes! LOL

Someone thinks, based on maps seen in use, this where the site was located.

originally posted by: EyesOpenMouthShut
a reply to: research100

That's the thing, just because you go camping and hiking a lot doesn't mean that you have any kind of serious wilderness skills

For sure. I have been camping many, many times, but I am definitely no survival expert. The last time I was in Hawaii, I very stupidly left my hotel and walked out on an old lava flow, at night - it was pitch black and I couldn't see a thing. I realized very quickly that this was a dangerous situation and tried to turn back, but couldn't see the lights from where I started, any more. Luckily, a patrol car came along and after talking to me, drove slowly and lit the way back for me. I was only out as far as a couple of minutes of walking could take me, but boy-oh-boy, did I feel alone and scared. I had on shoes and was just walking, not running. I can't imagine how anybody would get very far barefoot in the wilderness.

>>
I can't imagine how anybody would get very far barefoot in the wilderness.
>>

They say repeatedly the guy was "experienced", and I don't want to sound like an a$$, but the area is RATTLESNAKE INFESTED...as if the fact he only had on "a shirt and shorts" is not bizarre enough. An "wilderness-experienced" guy chasing after his dog in a rattlesnake infested area, barefoot and in shorts?

I agree, I cannot see him have gotten far, this makes this entire story even more abstruse. 90 rescue people searching incl. helicopters, dogs, IR equipments....and still no trace? Something is seriously off here although I am strongly opposed to wild speculations about "mythical beings" and "bigfoots" materializing..stuff like that...like some book authors IMPLY without saying it out loudly.

originally posted by: roadgravel
Someone thinks, based on maps seen in use, this where the site was located.

When I interpret this map right (?), there are hills in immediate vicinity (at the side) of the creek...and indications that small landslides happened (or could easily happen) there too.

My theory:

The guy went up a hill chasing the dog...slipped...fell...triggered a ton of sand lose (mini land-slide down the hill).......and was buried by sand and gravel.

This is not a far-fetched theory since exactly this happened to some hikers once here in Europe, it took them a LONG time to locate them. The side of cliffs, hills etc. are often not stable.