Could Physical Reality be a Dream?

a reply to: YouAreDreaming

Quite definitely it is not a dream. It is all a manifestation of YAHWEH'S projected Image. He made us in HIS IMAGE.

Look at the Earth; beautiful Blue Jewel teaming with Creation.

Look at Mars; barren red rock.

I dreamed I was a butterfly, flitting around in the sky; then I awoke. Now I wonder: Am I a man who dreamt of being a butterfly, or am I a butterfly dreaming that I am a man?

Chuang Tzu

People have been wondering the same thing for a long time. I remember one time I had a dream that I was a completely different person with different family, friends and memories...just living my life(sure it was real and my life) when suddenly I died in an accident and then I awoke from a coma in a hospital room with once again very different family, friends and memories...everyone was cheering and excited because I woke up from the coma...I was sure I had woke up and was in reality but then I woke up once again to this reality which I'm pretty sure is real but who knows...? hehe

I think dreams are where we come from and where we go I have thought that for a long time . When my dad was dying last year the last few days in the hospital he said he couldn't tell what was real his dreams or reality his dreams had become so powerful he couldn't distinguish the two .

There have been more than a few times where I had dreamed something and have it happen the next day .

I think it is a timeless place where past present and future are all happening at the same time. Where we can create our demons or create anything that we choose .

When I was younger I would wake in my dreams and realize it was a dream and do what ever I want (usually I would flying like a bird ) . I think the stress of life and and constant motion of everyday things I do in my day made me dream less and less. Shame I really miss flying like a bird

ETA What I think quantum mechanics is talking about is the dream realm being able for the user to control .This realm is a collapsed reality .

Yes, according to Mr. Spock. Spock, who cannot tell a lie, sang the song "Row Row Row Your Boat" at the end of one of the Star Trek movies - although he had the chance to sing it earlier in the film and didn't. When he did sing it, with the line "Life is but a dream", he officially chimed in on this theory. So it must be true!

originally posted by: Stayawayjoe
a reply to: YouAreDreaming

Quite definitely it is not a dream. It is all a manifestation of YAHWEH'S projected Image. He made us in HIS IMAGE.

Look at the Earth; beautiful Blue Jewel teaming with Creation.

Look at Mars; barren red rock.

Yahweh is a Demi-God. The reality is that "the Absolute Unbounded Oneness' as a binary plasma field that expresses itself. God did not make us in his own image as HE/IT doesn't have physical form, the human imagines God to be ITS OWN IMAGE, you have it backwards.

I used to intentionally lucid dream.

In a lucid dream, you wake up within the dream. The amount of control you have over the dream is directly proportional to your wakefulness within the dream. Waking up within the dream happens instantly upon realizing that you are, in fact, dreaming.

Usually, while dreaming, we believe our dreams are real events happening to us. We believe that we are subject to external forces within the dream and we believe the storyline of the dream. When we realize that none of that is real; when we realize that its all in our heads; when we realize that we aren't subject to the story line; when we realize the characters in the dream are in our own head; when we realize its just a dream; we wake up. The degree to which you are simultaneously aware of these things within the dream determines your power and your lucidity in a lucid dream.

You think you are alive now. The dream character thought he was alive until you showed him what being alive was.

In the dream, consciousness came from outside of the universe and showed the dream character that its reality could be more than it conceived as possible.

originally posted by: EmptyStations
The tale of two domains or dreams.

One is a collective dream the other is a private dream. One is physical. seemingly, only because it obeys strict mathematical(mental) laws. The other all laws break down to 0 or infinity mental without laws. Well to say both are mental is correct and different sides of the coin. One domain is 1+1 the other is 2. The both mean the same thing but in a different way. One is dimensional the other is dimensionless.

I often look at it from a perspective of virualism along the lines of what physicist Tom Campbell writes about with regards to the double-slit experiment and wave-function collapse that this reality is rendering particles collapsing from probability distributions. At the quantum state, matter is in a state of superposition and not a physical phenomena... it's just information that needs to render when that information is being accessed (observed) so thus sub-atomic particles, atoms, molecules are all simply data that is being processed by a universal super-computer rendering under a strict rule-set to behave in such a way that this reality system emerges as a final product of information processing.

This video does a fine job explaining that point-of-view.



When we are in a dream during sleep the same principles of "final product" rendering is taking place as dreams can convey a state of simulated physicality because we are able to use thought to program the 3d dream environment and impose our own rule-set (at the unconscious level). When we are lucid we can have direct control over the way our thoughts render the dream content.

If you have ever had an out-of-body experience and pass through a door or a wall, it's very much like no-clipping mode in a 3D video game where characters in this cheat mode can move through the constraints that the collision detection used to impose on the rule-set of the game.

I like the virtual simulation model for both dreams and reality as we can reduce both back to information and the way that information presents itself as a result of information processing.

I do believe reality does pre-processing between each chronological frame of reality much like a computer builds up a frame of animation and flips the frame to the next sequence providing a refresh-rate.

Dreams and reality both have a refresh rate thus they are animations and time merely is the change between refresh rates. If we are able to produce a vivid content rich dream experience during sleep that can be as real, and even more real in apperance to our physical counterpart... how do we really know that we haven't already evolved a conscious technology collectively which does this at the scale of a Universe?

One dreamer can produce an entire Universe in a night sleep and collapse that Universe when they wake up.

Another way that I look at the human body and mind is similar to the body as an interface or avatar in the simulation, and the mind as the computer that does all the required information processing to render out our experience of reality based on sensory information.

In dreams, we also virtualize our body and simlate the senses producing eyes, ears and et all the senses but unlike our physical state we are also producing the dream content which then provides the feed back to stimulate our virtual dream senses and the mind still compiles that data and renders out a dream experience.

Very fascinating. The big eye opener for me was in some lucid dreams the dream content was precognitive so I have had lucid dreams come true and even changed the content of the lucid dream only to have those changes occur when the dream came true in the physical world. That is what locked in my understanding that regardless of how this works, there is a clear definitive relationship between "some" dreams (the precognitive ones) and our waking world.

Gotta love it.

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
Many times have I mused over this subject with friends and ultimately, regardless of the many examples of how we could all be in some kind of a dream, we have to ask the following question, "How real is a punch in the face?" or make the statement, "You can tell me how real that tree was when you ran your car into it at 50 plus MPH".

Reality, whatever it actually is to a truly objective observer, will slap you in the face and wake you up from that dream. Whatever effect our thoughts have on reality, it isn't big enough to stop the damage to your face or your car when you get that wake-up call.

Again, in a dream you can suffer damage such as dying or even feel pain. I've had dreams which if you pinched yourself it would feel painful and you really have to do a reality-check to affirm that you are in fact, in a dream not actually in some physical world.

In our physical reality the body is confined to a very clear set of rules which physics describe. The physics engine of a virtual reality if you will. So if you cut yourself, the rules and system render out the causality of that event. A computer can simulate character death, so how do we know if our slap in the face isn't also a result of simulation for the purpose of entertaining rules of causality within this system?

What makes the physical world more in depth is the chronological order of events and the long duration that it spans. But again going back to dream examples I have interviewed people who have lived entire lifetimes in one single dream, and I have also experienced long durations of dream reality where the amount of physical time lapsing was small compared to the amount of time experienced in a dream that lasts many hours or even days. Even though time in dreams was portrayed in Christopher Nolan's Inception, it does have valid relative claims from actual dreamers themselves.

I've written an article on dreaming a century of time in a single dream based on interviews and other literature. If interested it can be read here.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: YouAreDreaming


Possibly.
But impossible to prove or disprove, in my opinion.
Exactly like the Matrix erm contention (?).

If there is any proof, you would have to experience it through the act of dreaming itself to see this relationship. It would be difficult to prove scientifically only in that we cannot yet measure subjective experience such as dreams and their content (although research in Japan using fMRI can now compare dream content to a database of known patterns to give us an idea of what a person is dreaming, but not extract perfectly what that data is).

In my case, it took having spontaneous precognitive dreams which first demonstrated to me that regardless of my beliefs, I was seeing first-hand some dreams that clearly conveyed future events. As impossible as that might seem, they came in such waves that when I also learned to lucid dream I would bridge into precognitive dream content with full lucid awareness which means I had my full left-brain logical and cognitive faculties in that prime opportunity.

Then I started to meddle and change the dream content and to my absolute surprise those changes also occurred thus I affected causality in waking reality by manipulating precognitive dream content.

You can read about those experiences here with what little evidence I have linked to those manipulations.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Terminal1
I personally love these types of topics even though pretty much everyone I know in this life just looks at me all KoOKy.

Nobody will ever find out methinks but still a fun topic to think about even if it makes someones brain hurt.

Just watched this video again... and just makes more questions. But a dream within a dream? Pfft... just add it to the pile of questions that will not be answered long after the Universe grinds to a halt.

I give you Camper Killers Commentary on reality... 10 minutes and fun to watch IMHO and also thought provoking.

Thanks, I will have a look so bookmarked. It's my strong personal belief that if we want these kind of answers, we must endeavor to explore what it means to be conscious during sleep with the sole intent of asking such big questions and through a systematic approach, unravel the secrets of the Universe ourselves.

This is partly do to the fact that for the most part, such experiences can only be gained subjectively as dreams are subjective. This means you are the subject to the truths (if any) that are revealed to you in this exploration of yourself in that focus state.

Take it from the school of epistemology where there are two schools of thought in how we acquire knowledge:

1.) Priori - By reading a book, a peer-reviewed journal or by a lecture.
2.) Posteriori - Through first-person experience such as having a lucid dream, eating chocolate (to experience and know what it tastes like) etc.

Science is very grounded in priori knowledge thus all things posteriori are often rejected and invalidated because they present hard problems for science to objectify. The hard problems of consciousness such as Qualia (which is the experience of reality) such as what food tastes like, what colors look like to the observer are often products of subjective interpretations. This is why someone may favor the taste of vanilla icecream where someone else prefers strawberry. Taste is not a measurable phenomena as it is a result of Qualia and how our mind renders the sensory data of taste into an experience.

But we cannot entirely dismiss posteriori knowledge as the majority of our life and learning is based on experience.

To know such truths really implies you must have the experience. Myself in having such experiences I have learned even though I know the answer, another person must themselves question it, do their own homework and research and maybe they can come to similar conclusions based on their own first-person experiences.

I can state implicitly that reality is a dream that emerges from thoughts organized in such a way to program a simulation. But that makes me a modern Plato in a world inspired by the beliefs of Democitrus.

It's completely irrelevant unless you see it through your own experiences and then perhaps we find common ground in such profound understandings.

originally posted by: EmptyStations
Well I see it like this dreams are mental. What science really thinks is physical especially in Quantum Theories are showing to not be so. These theories are however very mathematical(which lets face it science is built on) but what is mathematics? Mathematics is mental. Dreams, mathematics, consciousness, unconsciousness all mental.

The fact that we exist in a 3rd dimensional reality implies mathematics as all it takes to simulate 3D space are three vectors XYZ and represent reality pixels (atoms) based on their numerical positioning. I enjoy dimensional theory and I look at geometry as visual mathematics.

Based on my point-of-view, science in it's search to find the basis of matter, even when confronted with wave-function will have a very difficult time accepting that it's quantized binary thought (bits) that program the datastream of reality of which we are all rendering.

The human mind is literally a reality rendering farm.

I doubt that science will in my lifetime prove that it's thoughts similar to the same thoughts we use to program a dream which are programming our reality interface and experiences.

But that shouldn't stop us from our own personal investigations into this particular vector of ideology.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: YouAreDreaming
I dream while I sleep at night. If the dream is a nightmare I do my best to wake up. If it is not i just continue to dream as if it is real. At times if it is especially wonderful, I wonder if it might be just a dream and I do my best to poo poo the thought and convince my sleeping self that it is reality.

If we are of a mind to consider that our dreams have meaning then the experience of the dream needs to remain intact, without our conscious minds interfering and directing them from without. Likewise, it is my take, that should all of this be a dream, considering that it IS all a dream only interferes with the dream itself. Seeking to prove to ourselves that it is all a dream negates the value of our lives as they are, whatever they are.

Any of that make sense?

Dreams are effectively information rendering out based on our unconscious thoughts for the most part. I've written about the interface that our mind uses to render both our physical perceptions and dreams on. Unlike a computer which has a computer screen where it renders out data into a user-interface such as our browser and this forum.

The human mind doesn't have a physical screen to render sensory content and dream content on, instead it does something far more remarkable... it simulates the virtual canvas of the mind and projects what content merits being rendered there.

It's very easy to observe in action, how the mind is rendering reality on a virtual screen by simply closing your eyes. When you open them, you really are not seeing objectively the text that you are reading. Instead what you are actually reading is text rendered by the mind on this simulated model of reality that the mind produces.

If we look at the neural matrix of the human brain, millions of cells are working together both in collecting sensory data and transforming that data into electrical signals that can pass from one cell to the next in a information chain up to regions of the brain which again are simply cells at work processing that information until the end result of all this information processing is our "view" of reality projected virtually on this Cartesian Theater, or the Phaneron.

British Author Anthony Peake expands on the idea of the Cartesian Theater in his idea regarding the BIMAX or Bohmian Imax as a grand theater of the mind where our lives play out before us.

So our physical senses render here, and our dreams will render here. If you have an OBE the content will render here. If you die and meet God... you will render God and the experience of God here. The BIMAX or Cartesian Theater is a fundamental part of what makes us tick and provides the recursive feedback interface for all of our experiences to render dreams, physical or other.

Without such a mechanism, we simply could not experience anything and have any sense of meaning.

So what is rendering there... data... content... information... organized thought. And that is our experience of reality in a nutshell.

originally posted by: iosolomon
a reply to: YouAreDreaming

I've made the same claim (or similar). If there is an after-life, then Life is just one big dream. I found it funny that you dropped some Aristotle, but you didn't drop any Plato. Plato came to the same conclusion as this, but using different words, when he discussed the Being and the Becoming. Cool read though.

It is most depressing. I am dreaming. All this around me, I will realize was just a dream. I say that life is more like a lucid dream.

Reality as observed is far to dangerous to be messed with, their are exploding stars and Black holes out there. The observer would have to agree that a state of non being after being isn't an option. The Observation would have to take place from a very safe vantage point ,or the information would be no longer obtainable,but to render the experience real enough to have an effect in fact a hundred per cent immersion, would be required. I suggest that's what we have, not one atom in my body is the same as when I was young, so is my juvenile self dead? well that body isn't there anymore. If it is dead I have to be dead. Am I a Bio gram illusion? if all the atoms that were me have been replaced was I there in the first place? or do I just think I was to maintain myself in a coherent illusion, to escape the chaos.
If enough people report, who have never met each other, that they have briefly during some trauma observed their body being worked on by medical professionals, with an observation point outside their body, and if some who the medical pros, maintain that to all intense and purposes, that they were dead at the time, but could repeat verbatim what the medical pros. were saying I have to believe that on probability, this safe state exists.
Many people in this safe state obviously go with their personal paradigm, like meeting Jesus God or angels, (sounds like personal dreamland ) Other than this, its very hard to ascertain what comes next ,but could very well be another state based primarily on consciousness with something like the same rules as this reality. The rules being what promotes a coherent reality to be observed from what would otherwise be a chaotic environment containing information overload. I read that a dying 18 year old male in the back of an ambulance, kept drifting in and out of consciousness, when asked by the medic where he was, he said a party where the booty was the best. He was DOA.

originally posted by: Aphorism
We cannot philosophize in dreams. We can philosophize in waking life. So unless you cannot philosophize, life is never a dream.

Have you ever had a lucid dream? You are quite capable of such thoughts and more once in that particular focus sate.

Give it a try, you might surprise yourself with what you can actually accomplish.

originally posted by: iosolomon
a reply to: YouAreDreaming

I've made the same claim (or similar). If there is an after-life, then Life is just one big dream. I found it funny that you dropped some Aristotle, but you didn't drop any Plato. Plato came to the same conclusion as this, but using different words, when he discussed the Being and the Becoming. Cool read though.

It is most depressing. I am dreaming. All this around me, I will realize was just a dream. I say that life is more like a lucid dream.

That's funny because I just recently compared myself to Plato as a modern version of his way of thinking in opposition to Democritus.

For me, I find it exciting because what is really going on is that we fundamentally exist as a conduit of reality both as a participant and a creator of content.

Even if physical reality is derived from dreaming, that doesn't make the experience of being human and all that it entertains any less meaningful or invalid. It is a very real experience that we are having.

When we die, and the stage of life collapses... it may very well be like waking up from a dream that lasts a lifetime.

We cannot prove that we exist - so dreams may not exist either. We may be figments of someone's imagination and have no reality at all. But we can't prove it either way.

originally posted by: theMediator
I'm pretty sure our souls our trapped in this reality within our bodies and something forces us to re-incarnate in this same barren place.

If reality is a dream, I can't wait to wake up.

Enjoy the experience, there will be plenty of time to wake up from it after the ride is over. For now, you're locked in and totally committed to being here for the purpose of having precisely the experiences you are having, and sharing in those experiences with those around you.

When we wake up from this dream that lasts a lifetime... there will be plenty more to experience and dream about. We exist in an amazing reality from top to bottom and from life to death and beyond.

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
I get DeJaVu so intense that I already know what is going to happen in certain situations.

I will be in a conversation with someone and I will remember my dream of the exact situation already happening.

Occasionally I will answer a question before it is even asked in my head. The scene will unfold in reality but I have already been there and done that. It is getting to the point where I almost feel like I am trapped in some kind of a loop or something. I don't claim to know the answers but there is definitely more to this than what we know and I know for myself 100% that it is real TO ME.

I think we as a species have lost more awareness over time than we have gained.

I truly think that either the fluoride in our water or crap put in our food is to keeping us from becoming aware and that there is a group of people that know this and are using it for the upper hand in society. Sad but I think it is true.

That is wonderful to hear that you are having precognitive experiences. My motivation to write and present this dream angle on our existence stems fully from the very powerful and profound way that precognition has influenced my life. Recently, it has even saved my life in helping me avoid what seemed in the dream at the time to be a deadly collision between the driver side of my car and a white pick-up truck... thus even today I feel like I cheated my own fate and have the time to write and share these experiences... otherwise I drag such secrets to my grave and dead men tell no tales.

As for the conspiracy angle, I love conspiracy. The Nazi's were very deep into mysticism and the occult, so much so that they even changed the harmonics of music and here is a 2008 ATS classic on that fact: www.abovetopsecret.com...

The introduction of fluoride and how it calcifies the pineal gland is not unknown to those who seek to control man. We historically have lived in a world where man seeks to control man through any means necessary. Religion, Politics, Money and entire social structures are built with the sole purpose of enslaving as many people as they can to conform to someone else's ideological views. It's a control freak world.

Look at modern day skepticism with it's deep hold over the academic world and a rigid system of established tenants and arguments against anything that fundamental skeptics refuse to accept or believe. In talking with skeptics (and being a very skeptical person by nature) I say one has to be skeptical of skepticism and science... be critical and over-think and doubt everything until you have the evidence to turn an unknown into a known.

It may not be objective, or pass the scientific method but don't underestimate what you can accomplish if you set your mind, heart and soul to certain goals. We are very powerful beings who have accepted a set of limiting constraints for the purpose of the experiences such constraints provide. Human is just a part of what we really are.

First and foremost... you exist in a world where man seeks to control man... so question everything.

originally posted by: Richardus
To answer with the question reversed: could dream world be just as much a reaiity as our own, with different "aspects"/"laws" of physicality?

My answer to both questions: absolutely, beyond doubt.

We have two very different types of realities which we emerge into consciously and unconsciously... a playground of the soul trapped in duality, physical and non-physical realities.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Interesting. Dreaming is one of my favorite things about living (sleep, too)...and fascinates me.

I have for some time believed that what happens in my dreams is "real" - just in another dimension. My dreams are NEVER about "the day's events" - and they often occur serially - one night I find myself in one situation and place - on a later night, same place, different situation. Same with the 'characters' (players, people, whatever you want to call them)....
some show up in unexpected places (where previously their 'domain' was in another of my dream-places)....

What do YOU think about that idea? (you left no comments of your own)

I think this place the 3rd heavy dimension is a test, or a proving ground (not at all reality/a mirror of the 4th/5th dimensions) existing in a solid physical state. I don't dream, I astral travel to the 'real world' were one still experiences physical pain, hunger (as in can consume food, have carnal relations) and do just about everything one does here. I see myself as one foot in one dimension when awake, the other foot in another when sleeping. One of the reasons it is so difficult to incarnate here as a 'newbe' is the waiting lines are miles long (think of standing waiting for a Disney ride at Disneyland); this is an experience EVERYONE WANTS. Unfortunately the repeaters (the ones with Karma get first dibs to correct their souls progress). For me, its more fun exploring when Im 'asleep' than when awake. Nice thread.

That's a fun way to look at it, and no doubt... we came here with great anticipation of the experiences that Earth provides... like kids to a grand arcade but in this case, a massive virtual reality playground.

Explore both and have fun... so much hides underneath the hood. Sometimes we just have to stop and take a look what is inside and what makes the engine tick.