Baker Forced to make gay wedding cakes, undergo sensitivity training, after losing lawsuit

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: buster2010

Also as I posted earlier it is not against the Christian faith to do business with gays.

And you are correct, its not against the Christian faith to do business with gays, but it is against the Christian faith to knowingly participate and profit from a gay marriage or civil union.

Is it OK they just aren't told what the cake is for?

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

I disagree...and bringing race into everything has cheapened the race reference to the point that REAL problems which still DO exist on that front are marginalized and mixed in with everything else.

It's a real sore spot for being applied to anything of passionate belief. Racial civil rights in part fueled a civil war of over a half million American casualties and continued to fuel hate and general tears in society right into the 90's and present day.

I don't see any relation between baking a cake for a gay ceremony and racial equality for basic civil rights. The two just don't compute in my personal view.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

If a baker wants to run a shop with a religious lean, it should be his right and without having to explain that.

Then that's a hole different ball game.

There are no laws stating that a business owner cannot establish a business with a religious lean and a preference to specific religious teachings.

So long as that policy is posted loud and clear for the patrons, and it's practiced equally across the board... then there is no discrimination case.

It's when you offer a service to some people and not others, that's when you've got a big problem.

But getting it out to your customers that you are a devout religious person and cater to only that type of business, you are showing consistency.

Something this baker guy didn't do. He was inconsistant with how he conducted his business... and that's a big no-no in the eyes of the law.

Awesome - homophobic idiot.

Most people have already said why he was wrong but just to be sure that people get it.
The guy makes cakes, he makes wedding cakes for people and provides a service.
A couple asked him to make them a cake, he can't then say "well I do not make cakes for your kind"

Insert anything other than gay into the equation and there'd be outrage or more outrage than there was.

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite

Is it OK they just aren't told what the cake is for?

Of course it is. As long as the baker doesn't know its for a gay wedding, his hands are clean.

(Self Snip)

I'll return to this in the morning when I'm not nodding off.. 'night..

a reply to: stargatetravels

To him any wedding cake is for STRAIGHT couples. He has made it clear that he won't make wedding cakes for gay couples (in his eyes according to his religion the marriage is between a man and a woman). Perhaps it is his fault that he hasn't made it clear.

I can see why some people would see this as discriminating against gay people.

It doesn't matter really. The judgement might be harsh against the owner but to punish the employees for that? That's going too far.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

But that is what we are talking about here - civil rights for gays. We shouldn't refuse someone based on race, nor should we refuse someone based on sexual orientation, no matter how "uncomfortable" it makes us. True, there are states that allow discrimination against gays, just like there were states that allowed discrimination against blacks. But times, they are a changin', and I predict we will see more states adding sexual orientation as a protected group, along with race, gender and religion. Can't happen too soon for me.

a reply to: kaylaluv

The difficulty here is that the baker didn't refuse the service to gay couple. He has made it clear (albeit perhaps not clear enough) that he will not make wedding cakes for same-sex ceremonies.

To him, the marriage is between a man and a woman.

The baker doesn't give a flip about what people do, especially gay people.

originally posted by: stargatetravels
Awesome - homophobic idiot.

Most people have already said why he was wrong but just to be sure that people get it.
The guy makes cakes, he makes wedding cakes for people and provides a service.
A couple asked him to make them a cake, he can't then say "well I do not make cakes for your kind"

He was not wrong and he is not a bigot. Again, he is not saying "well I don't make cakes for your kind". He makes plenty of cakes for "your kind". He is saying "I don't make cakes for that kind of wedding". Why is that so hard to understand?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

To him, the marriage is between a man and a woman.

No, apparently to him, marriage is between a man and a woman, OR a dog and another dog.
Somewhere I missed where Jesus said that particular quote.

a reply to: kaylaluv

No, apparently to him, marriage is between a man and a woman, OR a dog and another dog.

LOL well allegedly

a reply to: kaylaluv

Matthew 19:4-5

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?

originally posted by: kaylaluv

No, apparently to him, marriage is between a man and a woman, OR a dog and another dog.

Somewhere I missed where Jesus said that particular quote.

But were they gay dogs? If so I'd say you have a legitimate complaint, if not well something along the lines of grasping at straws comes to mind.

I wonder what their vows sounded like or if the pastor performing the ceremony required them to participate in couples therapy prior to the union.

originally posted by: andr3w68
a reply to: thesaneone

No I most certainly would not. I just want to make it clear that I agree no one should force him to make the cake. Not only will it not be eaten, but he does have the right to refuse servicd

Actually, no he doesn't.

There is no such thing as a 'gay' cake. The recipe used to bake the cake will be the same as he serves others.

Refusing to make one for a gay person is akin to refusing to make a wedding cake for a Muslim because you are christian. You just can't do it in the professional realm.

a reply to: markosity1973

We have covered this many times in this thread. He is not refusing service to gay people.

As it has been stated many times he has made it clear that he WILL NOT make wedding cakes for same-sex ceremonies as the ceremonies/marriages are between a man and a woman.

originally posted by: markosity1973

Refusing to make one for a gay person is akin to refusing to make a wedding cake for a Muslim because you are christian. You just can't do it in the professional realm.

Just so you know, no Muslim would ever ask a Christian to make a cake for their wedding.

If a straight couple came into the bakery and asked for two cakes for their vatchalor and batcholette pretties. The one cake would be a huge penis and the other cake was two big titties and a landing strip down below. Could the baker say no, we don't do those cakes? Would people still be saying, but those people are human? If the westboro baptist church went to a gay baker, should the baker make the western baptist church cake?

The governement is basically sending these people to a reeducation camp!!

I thought their was a constitutional amendment that made it illegal to force labor about of someone, something that was passed around the late 1860's

So a private company can't refuse people now?

a reply to: Metallicus

S&F!

A family] owned bakery has been ordered to make wedding cakes for gay couples and guarantee that its staff be given comprehensive training on Colorado’s anti-discrimination laws after the state’s Civil Rights Commission determined the Christian baker violated the law by refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex couple.

Jack Phillips, the owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop, in Lakewood, Colorado was directed to change his store policies immediately and force his staff to attend the training sessions. For the next two years, Phillips will also be required to submit quarterly reports to the commission to confirm that he has not turned away customers based on their sexual orientation.

It is not a purely family owned bakery ... its also owned by the public ... because its in a light commercial district owned and CONTROLLED by the public, which includes voting tax paying residential gay demographic, and must abide by public decency, public liability ,sales + income tax, minimum wage laws which means they have serve everyone equally or shut up shop and relocate to a private residential zone which has its own limits on what can and can't be done there.

The proof of that is the Civil [aka PUBLIC] Rights Commission has the ultimate power in this issue!

Regardless of commercial, industrial or residential zoning rules ...

1] They can turn away anybody who isn't dressed or acting decently [example: publicly intoxicated and or nude], thereby upholding public decency laws!

2] They can ask anybody being noisy to quieten down or to leave, thereby upholding noise laws!

3] They can legally choose to PUBLICLY [example: sign on door] deny people possessing a gun on their person entrance and service, thereby restricting other peoples use of the 2nd amendment.

4] They [the bakery owners] are fine to serve or not serve anybody they want to [limited by traffic thoroughfare, noise and public decency rules] ... from the comfort of a residential zoned area!

But they are not fine to pick and choose who they serve if they work in a commercially zoned area, unless extra laws apply such as serving cigarettes,alcohol and or lottery tickets to minors!

As being gay and getting married are not against the local laws, the bakery had no choice but to serve the plaintiffs in the lawsuit with a cake for their wedding,... that is IF they wanted to remain in the public commercial zone they are currently zoned in and serving the public with their bakery business.

ALL money belongs to the state ... business is endorsed by government or it operates illegally ... even if a business is illegal the Government wants that business to pay taxes [think illegal prostitution]!

The Public runs the government!

DO NOT PISS OFF ANY OF THE PUBLIC AS IT IS BAD FOR BUSINESS!