Baker Forced to make gay wedding cakes, undergo sensitivity training, after losing lawsuit

a reply to: Pinke

lolz

Sensitivity training, forcing them to go against their religious views. . . .

A better alternative would have been to let the market punish the bakery. If word got out that they were "intolerant" of gay marriage and refused their services, then the marketplace would decide their future.

Boycotting the bakery, hitting them in their pocketbook would have been a far better alternative than providing the government yet another oppourtunity to step in and mandate for a privately owned business.

a reply to: beezzer

Selling a cake to someone regardless of your views is not "giving in" or breaking any religious rules.

So you dont like gays, great, i recommend not going to a gay bar. Pretty sure theres no line in the bible that read 'thou shalt be thrown to hell and not forgiven for selling delicious baked goods to homosexuals'.

And as for going against their beliefs? Thats not what the course is for, its for making people respect other people, people dont agree on all sorts of things and theres no reason to not take their money, why single out gays?

a reply to: Biigs

Most people follow their conscious when it comes to their moral beliefs. Now, if this person believes that homosexuality is wrong, then he will also believe in his heart that doing things to encourage that is wrong also.

Making the cake is probably not the point, the point is the moral encouragement of something he believes to be wrong. He feels like making a cake and decorating it with two grooms is him encouraging something he believes is morally wrong to encourage.

I believe lying is morally wrong, yet.. I advertise products for a living. My definition of lying is much different than my bosses definition, and at times we fight like cats and dogs over what I will and will not say in an advertisement. I will not cross my moral red line.

For the baker, he has a moral red line also... and unlike me he chose a profession he never thought would make him cross that line... he found a line however even in his profession he did not feel he could cross... here everyone is different, and everyone's definition of morality is different...

In my honest opinion, I don't understand why any gay couple would want to force someone to cross their own moral line... and this man is being forced... being "reeducated" and brainwashed until he happily crosses that line...

I don't get why people think that is in anyway okay.... its a free market, go somewhere else for crying out loud.

If someone made me go to classes to make me start believing lying was okay and a good thing.. would people support that too? I mean really, where do we get our own personal freedom of choice to live our lives according to our own morality?

if your store sells all manner of goods, you don't ask each person what their sexual status is and if they are planning on marrying same sex before selling them a bedroom furniture set for their new home. you just sell it to them. this whole scenario of the holy wedding cake is getting blown way out of proportion. it's not even for an actual wedding, but for a social agreement, which the gay couple already made when they had sex the first time.

holey rusted metal, batman

a reply to: imwilliam

Who the hell are you?

Apparently someone that knows the bible better than you. Show me where it says in the bible that people are not allow to do business with homosexuals because it is against their faith.

What gives you the right to determine what someone's faith is for or against?

The bible determines what that bakers faith is for or against maybe he should try reading it for once the words within is not that hard to understand.

Show a compelling reason for why the government should infringe upon a the bakers right to exercise his religion as he sees fit.

The Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act prohibits people from discriminating against people.
Don't like it? Then don't move to Colorado. There are also federal laws against discrimination don't like it? Then find another country to move to. This country wasn't founded so religious bigots could use their faith to trump the law. That is why the founders kept religion out of government.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Whether the baker believes same sex marriage is wrong or not is forever shadowed by the fact they think dog marriage is OK!

This just gets more and more hilarious.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

rofl! egads, yeah, the dogs rated more than the humans did. what can you say except, UM HELLO?

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: OpinionatedB

Whether the baker believes same sex marriage is wrong or not is forever shadowed by the fact they think dog marriage is OK!

This just gets more and more hilarious.

Lucky that dogs dont buy wedding cakes eh, that could be another lawsuit. Lucky again that dogs dont sue either.

Way to go dude.

Not only have you left yourself out of pocket by refusing service, you've essentially driven away further customers by bringing your views into the workplace.

If I did some garden work for a gay couple and a fellow employee boycotts due to his beliefs, T.S for him. Because at the end of the day they'll still be gay and he'll be a few hundred bucks in the red, and then he'll have to go home to his family and explain why they'll be having beans for dinner this week.

Business is business, if you want to earn the money you've gotta leave the baggage at home, and I learned that the hard way (i'm not against gay people or black people but I am against DB bosses.)

a reply to: Metallicus

If someone thinks homosexuality is morally wrong, it is morally wrong to support the wedding by creating a wedding cake. Its dramatically more morally wrong to force anyone to do any work... its called slavery. So rather than simply respect someone's beliefs of what is wrong and what isn't, they have add another wrong into the world, slavery.

The government is designed to commit what is a crime for me and you as a way of life. Its a fundamental flaw that automatically means things like this will always happen on a regular basis. If its wrong for me or you to take people's money without their permission because you have a good cause to give to, then its wrong for the government to do it. If forcing someone to work against their will is wrong because they didn't make a cake for someone you think they should have, its wrong for the government too.

The baker should disobey the judges order and publicly admonish him.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Pinke

lolz

Sensitivity training, forcing them to go against their religious views. . . .

A better alternative would have been to let the market punish the bakery. If word got out that they were "intolerant" of gay marriage and refused their services, then the marketplace would decide their future.

Boycotting the bakery, hitting them in their pocketbook would have been a far better alternative than providing the government yet another oppourtunity to step in and mandate for a privately owned business.

The very same religion that used to burn people alive - I think the more sensitivity training those nut bars get, the better.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

I think the more sensitivity training those nut bars get, the better.

this part i disagree with, but i do however think it would behoove them to re-read what jesus said, cause to me, he sounds like an incredibly nice guy who didn't refuse people based on their sins, but on the content of their hearts. since we don't come equipped with a little scale to determine the state of a person's heart, we have only mercy and kindness to extend to others at our disposal.

originally posted by: damwel
Good, it's time for the intolerant to learn that hate is not what America is about.

I might be wrong but I think we throw the word hate around too much, it is an easy label that is so over used. If we look at marriage it is a custom/action/ideology event. So if a gay couple walked in and he said I hate gays and I will not make a cake for you that is rather different than saying that gay marriage goes against my religion so I can not support it.

What if a KKK group asked him to make cakes for their annual rally and he said the same thing?

With that said I think he might be in the wrong business if his religion restricts his ability to provide service, but we go overnight from something that is illegal to legal and we expect all to change overnight too, we expect all to edit their religious books or even their non-religious views on the subject.

Lastly, as many have said I will never get service where I'm not wanted. This could be the clean cut white guy going in the ghetto McD and everyone looking at me with the question of "what is that white boy doing here", this could be giving the servers/cooks a hard time anywhere, this is also anyone who is in the position to serve me anything.

I will go where I'm wanted as a customer and I will respect all that serve me. For we know what ALL humans seem to want to do when they feel justified, don't we. This reminds me of the urban myth of the couple that were total asses on their vacation and when they got home and developed their pictures there was some extra pictures with their tooth brushes stuck up someone's you know where.

With that said, to the gay couple; enjoy your victory, and enjoy your cake too...

Omg! Wow, I'm your local representative beezzer?! Which state do I have??? Tell me-tell me-tell me!

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: [post=17996747]
A better alternative would have been to let the market punish the bakery. If word got out that they were "intolerant" of gay marriage and refused their services, then the marketplace would decide their future.

The marketplace did decide. From memory their sales went up like they always do, and boycotts like the Mozilla thing result in the same rhetoric about gay people throwing their weight around.

Fact is beezzer, Americans in many states fully endorse homosexual discrimination and feel entitled to do so and always have done. Only new thing is people now have to come up with reasons why.

Anyway, topic is like pulling teeth on a web board sharing one sentence at a time.

If you would like a real conversation about it feel free to U2U me for my messenger details and we can share points of view. Danke.

a reply to: Biigs

Just in his defense...it's not that he dislikes gays, he dislikes government mandates and overreach. Think about it for a moment. You may like government forcing people to do things they don't believe in and sentencing them to "sensitivity training" (re-education--sounds scary don't it?) and other sorts of thought police when you dislike the person or the cause the thought police is coming down on, but that is a short sighted view, IMHO. It is short sighted because what you are doing is giving the state the power and precedent to legislate and regulate thoughts and actions you do like someday. It's easy to say "screw him the government should punish him" when he is a sub-class you hate, but that sort of thinking always comes around again.

Beez is right--the best answer is a free market one. If someone pisses off the community, then they will lose business and will either change their practice or go out of business. We do not need larger and more intrusive government.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

For real.

That's the way I see it too.

For every "fabulous" wedding you refuse to cater to, you are missing out on some big bucks.

Don't get me started on how much cake some fat lesbians eat. Now imagine a whole reception party full of them.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I respect the fact that the gov should not be telling people what to do and forcing them to change, however, what the bakers wanted to do is basically put a trade embargo on gay people. Which is strange due to the lack of their trade losing them good money and also because it is a free country and people should be free to do what any other person is able to do.

A person could order a cake and when it said "To Barry and David" just say his wife Barry, is from some foreign country. Does it change anything? No, the cake people are just making a flap over essentially fair trade and the gov saying "hey now play nice with everyone like they do with you".

Now a Gay owned anti-christian bible shop, that would turn some heads.

a reply to: NavyDoc

yeah people seem to forget this is why the usa was formed in the first place -- to escape governments who had over-reached their limitations where the people were concerned. it has never been and never will be, humane or logical, to allow one group of people of a singular mindset, to dictate to everyone else what they should believe, feel or worship. that will never change. if you stick an out of control government in that supports your world view, and then your world view goes out of fashion, you suddenly become subject to a world view you don't like with all the authority you gave the government when you did support the over-reach.

don't wish this on people. seriously. we do not want that kind of government in charge. this cannot be emphasized enough.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

Do yourself a favor and go read 1984.

Sensitivity Training "Reprogramming" is just the beginning. We are being pushed into a place even you don't want to go. Do you not understand what the government is doing is wrong? They are trying to reprogram our thoughts. How in the world can anyone think this is okay. You need to remember that once one side is controlled they will go for the other. We are well on our way to being thought controlled, you okay the practice now but you might change your mind soon enough when you lose your rights....and you will if this continues and if people like you continue to laugh it off.

they stopped burning people at the stake in the US when they realized how freaking wrong it was after the Salem Witch Trials. People makes mistakes throughout history but why is it that only the Christian mistakes are the ones being brought up? You do realize that Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Atheists, well pretty much every religion has at one point in time been intolerable of others? Even to the point of murder, and some really brutal ones at that?

So ironic for you and most of the people in this board to show such "hate and intolerance" to these bakers because they show "intolerance". Because you know, two wrongs always makes a right....right? Instead of trying to imagine where they are coming from, or having meaningful conversation, or simply allowing them to think for themselves. Why bother trying to engage in conversation when we can just sit back and watch the government tell them what to think. People should be calling their congressmen over this ruling. They should start petitions over this to try and get this judge's ruling overturned. but they won't because you still have your choice to hate, and as long as you have your choice, no one else's choice matters much does it?

Sorry, but I prefer the Christians free will of thought. Such a pity that so many others do not.

a reply to: Biigs

But that's not free trade. Free trade is that two parties willingly engage in a mutually beneficial exchange of goods and services. One party did not want to engage in that willing exchange. It may be unwise to turn away business in today's economy, but they should have that right in a free market.

The government with this decision is not just saying "play nice," it is saying we do not like how you think or what you believe so we are going to re-educated that out of you. It has gone beyond simple free markets.