What's with all the hate for Paul?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: charles1952

it is what it is.

that phrase rings very loudly to me and one day we will all know why but i know to be on my toes when i hear it spoken and that truth follows...




a very big thanks to all who have shared their view for i am still trying to understand it all and this helps. If anyone will indulge me i have one more question that may offend but an honest answer will go far.

For those that disagree with Paul do you support gay marriage?

When it comes to the question of gay marrage, im reminded of this , little tete a tete between God and Peter..
quote "And the voice spake unto him again
the second time,
What God hath cleansed,
that call not thou common."

kinda puts Peter in a more humble place.
But he did get the point.

a reply to: Destinyone

He is definitely not the best of the Beatles! lol

@op.....I've softned my stance on paul. From 'totally false apostle' to 'shady pseudo apostle'. The problem is that christians accept paul as an authority over the actual disciples who knew jesus personally. Paul hardly refers to jesus' teachings and instead rambles on and on about his own ideas and himself. If christians read Pauls words in light of the older material, instead of the other way round, maybe there wouldnt be much of a problem. Pauls work should have been classified as early christian writings , not as a source of doctrine.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Paul, or Saul Paulus-- was a trilateral double agent working partly on behalf of the Sanhedrin as spearhead for the Pharicees and partly on Rome's behalf in power of being the son of a Roman senior official. Greeks were also in on it, Paul links Jesus with Apollon, son of Zeus.

Object: With his invaluable knowledge of messianism and the Scriptures he will make the Jewish Christian movement abolish circumcision and food hygiene and eventually the whole Torah, thus turning them into neighbours of Judea, and no longer Judeans, avoiding that the Christian movement gets any real influence with Jewish politics, or God forbid, the Sanhedrin itself-- and it will exclude them from any synagogue in the world thus avoiding that their message is spread to other Jews.

originally posted by: Unity_99
Odd that part because in our Catholic upbringing, Paul was discussed quite a bit for his unjust and chauvinistic attitude towards women and slaves, and wasn't believed whole heartedly by quite a few of us. There are intelligent feminists in the Church's and in many families who tend to discuss openly all kinds of issues.

However, not sure every word can be turned into metaphors in the bible, but alot of it can and is, for they are truly gnostic messages, that which is a parable and contains inner gems, often with a completely opposite meaning to the outer nonsense and especially relating to passages that are smiting, warring, or would ever have the Highest Love and Goodness/God murder anyone even a criminal.

So some of the passages relating to Paul may be additions by Rome, to stir and muddy the waters, or alterations. The stuff about women and slaves for example.

However, Paul was a gnostic and his writings are inner seeking scriptures which is probably why if Rome was going to alter, they'd alter him to try and draw away from the deeper inner meanings of some of his passages, such as this one:

www.spiritofthescripture.com...
The Crossing of the Red Sea and Baptism: It’s NOT about water!

Right on the money. I'd add that also Paul like all other men made judgements that were wrong. But within all that chaff and later additions and Paul's confusion and his progressive revelation and theology we find the grain/seed/gem

As you said gnostic truths which to Paul was the mysteries of Christ. Christ in you, the one new man, the two becoming one,

Glorification

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

You're right he testified against Christ in the Sanhedrin Acts 26.10. He eclipses the real apostles which in itsrelf is suspicious until you read the Nag Hammidi scrolls where you see the Gnostic side to Christ's teachings. You get to understand why documents by Matthew etc werre excluded from the bible.

On a recent tv programme it is very interesting to learn that the early Church Fathers deliberately purged all the documents from the Gnostics from all the Monasteries. The early days of Christianity were unfortunately really days when various factions of Christianity were killed off and the strongest individuals ruled the decision making that created Christianity as we have it today. Sadly it represents little of what Christ actually taught. It also excludes his teachings to his inner disciples, which included Mary, after he had 'risen' and before he died.

Christianity says Christ is the Son of God and Gnostics put man equal to Christ once one follows his teachings. Irs a huge difference in perception and is something people died over, which is cold comfort for religious principles.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Indeed, and Saul Paulus was spearhead of the Sanhedrin at the trial and execution of St. Stephen:

Acts 7:56 ... Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

The man called Saul here is the later selfproclaimed Hethens' Apostle, Saul Paulus, or simply the Apostle Paul. Savage!

Because he was the first anti-christ. He took all of Jesus's teachings about love and inclusiveness and turned it into excluding and oppression of women.

originally posted by: MOMof3
Because he was the first anti-christ. He took all of Jesus's teachings about love and inclusiveness and turned it into excluding and oppression of women.

And it's from Paul's own words we know he was the only apostle to be unmarried and is possibly the reason behind the godless celibacy doctrines too that serve as a clever revenge for Paul's annoying heel-bites, suits 'em.

Paul, a true follower of Jesus and a great prophet, one of the elect? Not bloody likely! Not in a million years.

originally posted by: Murgatroid
Paul's writings are attacked simply because he used to be one of "them".

I did a bunch of digging and I am now convinced that this whole issue revolves around the fact that Paul was an elite "whistleblower".

He used to be a part of the "elite" and he turned against them and exposed them for what they are.

Throughout history anyone who has done this has been attacked and killed just like all others that have exposed the TPTB, the money changers, and the Illuminati.

Illuminati whistle blowers such as Jesus, JFK, Lincoln etc have always been silenced since the beginning of history. EVERY person who has the ability to change the world...is murdered....coincidence?

I think NOT...

The article quoted below confirmed this for me:

"Please be aware of the anti-Paul movement, it was set up by the foe (today's Edomites) to fordo (destroy) the Israel Insight.

This movement twists what Paul says in order to make him look like a huckster but who are the hucksters in this world? The Jewish Encyclopedia and other jewish writings makes makes it clear that one of the greatest of the foes for Judaism is Paul. The jews spew hatred upon Paul.

“Needless to say, observant Jews objected to Paul, ... whom they saw as the worst kind of heretic. Indeed, because of Jewish complaints against him, Paul was arrested by the Roman authorities, held for a time under house arrest, and finally executed in or around 67 CE (the year of the start of the Great Revolt against Rome in Israel.)” ~ Rabbi Ken Spiro

• To be Anti-Paul is to tear the living heart out of the New Testament.

• To be Anti Paul opens up a Pandora’s Box among people as to what is inspired in the Bible and what is not. The Canon is a sacred Ark, man’s unsanctified hands are not to touch it. Will this foolishness never end? QUESTIONING GOD’S WORD DENOTES UNBELIEF!

• To be Anti-Paul lays that person open to the full force of Rationalism, Modernism, and “doubt” far worse than any NEO-ORTHODOXY ever dreamed of!

• To be Anti-Paul is an outright denial of the Providence of God in settling and arranging the Canon of Scripture as we know it. Of this Scripture the God of Israel is most jealous! The whole question is: MAN’S MOUTH versus GOD’S WORD!

The Anti-Paul Movement is Jewish

Illuminati whistleblowers are always illuminati spokespeople.

And the main book of The Illuminated Ones is the "Holy Bible".

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: deadeyedick

If they can discount Paul, they can make the bible fit their opinions.

PFFT. That is what you do anyway. The Bible is full of contradictions just waiting to be quoted out of context for whatever self-serving purposes happen to be at work.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Its not my fault you're too puffed up to examine the bible for what it is. Set aside your emotions and read the message. You just might learn something if shut you mouth long enough

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: AfterInfinity

Its not my fault you're too puffed up to examine the bible for what it is. Set aside your emotions and read the message. You just might learn something if shut you mouth long enough

I did learn something. "SURRENDER YOUR EXISTENCE TO OUR ALMIGHTY GOD OR HE'LL RAPE YOU!!!" Something along those lines. And what you call 'puffed up', I call 'self respect and dignity'.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

There was a very good debate going here. Please don't continue to derail.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: AfterInfinity

There was a very good debate going here. Please don't continue to derail.

Paul was a sexist idiot who never actually met Jesus and corrupted his principles. Any other questions?

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Thing is the Bible, though a big book, you can still stack about 30 of them on a yard wide shelf. It is only natural that these preachers starts repeating themselves, infact I know a drunkard who repeats himself less than a few Eccos I've ran into here on ATS. When all these people know and everything they have ever read in their life mounts up to 20,000 pages of Donald Duck & Co and a certain 2,000 year old 1,300 page manuscript containing a quite telling collection of writings of antique cultism-- I can partly understand they run out of references and prefer to believe the Universe is 6,000 years old and that dinosaurs (the Dragon) must be a lie made by a certain demigod whom it is mandatory to hate, who turns everything into smoke and frackery for them. Just when they are about to prove the Moon is made of cheese, this Lucifer dude comes and proves them wrong. Every bloody time.

The big question, of course, is not whether Jesus lived not, or whether or not he is the Son of God, no, it's how the hell these people manage to function in a modern society with the intellectual capacity of stoneagers without boring their bollocks to utter numbness so they fall off!?! It never ceases to amaze me.

And Apostle Paul? May he rot in hell for all the women and gays he spat on and shat on.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

No, no. Don't bid him rot in hell. That's where I'm going, and I've no interest in meeting the guy.

ETA: I have this thing where if my parents are going to hell for being gay, I'm going to hell for supporting them. If hell exists, it's already got a torture rack with my name plastered all over it.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: AfterInfinity

Its not my fault you're too puffed up to examine the bible for what it is. Set aside your emotions and read the message. You just might learn something if shut you mouth long enough

[sarcasm]When you can't fight the wisdom, attack the wise. Shoot the messenger, burn the flag![/sarcasm]

For a BELIEVER, you are one hell of one disrespectful little marshmallow. Get dressed for fire if you plan to continue that line. Stick to subject and don't go ad hominem.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Something along those lines.

Yeah, maybe if you knew the scriptures, you could point out exactly where it says that. The problem in your case is that the bible never condones rape, thats an idea of your imagination that you project onto God and His word. The bible is coherant, it flows from book to book...so much so that Jesus' identity as the Messiah is painfully obvious. The fact that you cant see that indicates that you cannot thing out of the box. You are a SLAVE to worldly psychology...you and the rest of your Paul bashing buddies. Hine sight is only 20/20 if you open your eyes.

Nothing that Paul taught was new. Over and over and over again those principles are taugh in OT, Gospels and NT. To say other wise after honestly examining the bible for yourself is outright slander.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

No, no. Don't bid him rot in hell. That's where I'm going, and I've no interest in meeting the guy.

ETA: I have this thing where if my parents are going to hell for being gay, I'm going to hell for supporting them. If hell exists, it's already got a torture rack with my name plastered all over it.

Don't worry, noone's going to hell for such with a faith like yours. Leviticus is the part of Moses' Law which only affects the priests among the Levites. Paul doesn't either speak of being gay or homosexuality, he attacks what he sees as adultary, married men who followed local custom to have male lovers beside their wives. Infact, homosexuality isn't mentioned in the Bible, only religious ritual sex on altars with spectators even involving eh, manlove, like they did in certain areas in the ME back when Moses was around. And as for Paul, like I said, not homosexuality, but what he saw as extra-marital adultary. Stick that one up their faces next time, it might not work that well, but atleast it's the TRUTH.