Today's KORAN not the same KORAN - REVALATION

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
Prove to me what you just listed ..as FACT...prove it !

Sure. Lets start with Noahs Ark. Proven false.

4,350 years ago (bible date approx 2350 BC) there was no global flood that took over the entire planet leaving only a single boat floating around which contained two pair of every critter on the planet ...

If Noahs Ark happened .. then this 80,000 year old tree colony wouldn't have survived.
PANDO Tree Colony

Pando (Latin for "I spread"), also known as The Trembling Giant,[1][2] is a clonal colony of a single male quaking aspen (Populus tremuloides) determined to be a single living organism by identical genetic markers[3] and one massive underground root system. The plant is estimated to weigh collectively 6,000,000 kg (6,600 short tons),[4] making it the heaviest known organism.[5] The root system of Pando, at an estimated 80,000 years old, is among the oldest known living organisms.[6][7]
Pando is located 1 mile southwest of Fish Lake on Utah route 25.[8] in the Fremont River Ranger District of the Fishlake National Forest, at the western edge of the Colorado Plateau in South-central Utah, at N 38.525 W 111.75.

Science Daily
At this time there are 6.5 million land animal species on the planet. There were even more back in what was supposedly Noahs time. Two of each animal would mean at least 13 million animals on that boat. NOT A CHANCE!! Couldn't happen.

Light doesnt penetrate the ocean more than about 500 ft. if the earth were submerged under 29,000 ft. in order to cover mt. everest, no marine plant life would have survived and the oceans would be dead. Obviously that didn't happen.

Could Noahs' Ark Have Actually Happened?

If the 2350 date were correct, then human civilization would’ve had to undergo an extreme population explosion in the millenium following the flood. According to Biblical sources, there would have been millions of Jews leaving Egypt, so assuming a global population of 40 million around that time (~1350 BC), and comparing that to global population estimates later in history (an estimated 200+ million by 0 AD), would require an incredibly high population growth between 2350 BC and 1350 BC (5,000,000 fold increase in 1,000 years), and a much lower population growth after 1350 BC – usually less than 5 fold population growth within any 1,000 year period between 1350 BC and 1800 AD.

(3) The distribution of animals is not what we would expect if there were a global flood killing all life. If all life was limited to the top of a mountain in the Middle East in 2350 B.C., then how to explain the distribution of animals across the world? All the kangaroos on the Ark went to Australia? How did the animals get to the Americas? If they crossed via an ice-bridge in the Bering Strait, then the Americas should be limited to animals that are warm blooded and capable of traveling hundreds of miles across snow. This means no reptiles, no spiders, etc. Yet, the Amazon contains a wide variety of animal biodiversity. And why didn’t American desert animals stay behind in the deserts of the Old World? (See related post: “Creationism versus Animal Biodiversity”)

(4) Genetic evidence shows that human beings are far to genetically diverse to be descended from a single family in 2350 B.C. If Noah’s Ark were true, then all men alive today would’ve gotten their Y-chromosomes from Noah, and all human mitochondrial DNA would come from Noah’s wife and the three daughter-in-laws. Studies of the human Y-Chromosome show that you’d need far more than 4,300 years to accumulate that many mutations. Human beings could not be descended from a single male in 2350 B.C. What the studies show, instead, is that, in order to explain the number of mutations in the human Y-Chromosome, you have to allow for roughly 60,000-90,000 years. Similarly, human mitochondrial DNA requires roughly 160,000 years to accumulate that many mutations — showing that Eve could not have lived 6,000 years ago as the Bible says.

Adam and his Eves - A lesson on DNA and population distribution for you

Creationism vs Biodiversity

Additionally, once the animals left the Ark, there are a lot of nearby regions they could inhabit, but didn’t. For example, all varieties of rattlesnakes are found in the Americas (33 species, and numerous subspecies). There are none in the Old World – despite the fact that there are regions similar to the American deserts – the Sahara, the Middle East, the Gobi Desert, etc. Llamas fit this same pattern – found in the New World, but not in the Old World. The Caucus (where the Ark supposedly landed) and Himalaya mountains have different species than the Rocky Mountains and Andes. Why didn’t some of the Rocky Mountain species stick around in the Caucus Mountains – they were already there the minute they stepped off the Ark. Similarly, the species in the South American tropics aren’t found in Old World tropics (Southeast Asia and Africa), and vice-versa. For example, New World cats and monkeys are different species than Old World cats and monkeys. Theoretically, with the movement of creatures caused by the global flood, one could find the same species living in distant places. Somehow, we don’t.

National Geographic - Human DNA Journey
For Noahs Ark to have happened exactly as the bible claims, we'd expect the highest levels of genetic diversity to be in the Middle East. But the fact is that the highest levels of human genetic diversity occur in Africa where humanity evolved.

Noahs Ark Doesn't Float

Miles of coral reef, hundreds of feet thick, still survive intact at the Eniwetok atoll in the Pacific Ocean. The violent flood would have certainly destroyed these formations, yet the rate of deposit tells us that the reefs have survived for over 100,000 undisturbed years. Similarly, the floodwaters, not to mention the other factors leading to a boiling sea, would have obviously melted the polar ice caps. However, ice layers in Greenland and Antarctica date back at least 40,000 years.

Impact craters from pre-historical asteroid strikes still exist even though the tumultuous floodwaters would have completely eroded them. If these craters were formed concurrently with the flood, as it has been irresponsibly suggested, the magnificent heat from the massive impacts would have immediately boiled large quantities of the ocean, as if it wasn’t hot enough already. Like the asteroid craters, global mountain ranges would exhibit uniform erosion as a result of a global flood. Unsurprisingly, we witness just the opposite in neighboring pairs of greatly contrasting examples, such as the Rockies and Appalachians.

Fact - Adam and Eve Didn't Happen. Proven False.

Evolution is True

Unfortunately, the scientific evidence shows that Adam and Eve could not have existed, at least in the way they’re portrayed in the Bible. Genetic data show no evidence of any human bottleneck as small as two people: there are simply too many different kinds of genes around for that to be true. There may have been a couple of “bottlenecks” (reduced population sizes) in the history of our species, but the smallest one not involving recent colonization is a bottleneck of roughly 10,000-15,000 individuals that occurred between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago. That’s as small a population as our ancestors had, and—note—it’s not two individuals.

Further, looking at different genes, we find that they trace back to different times in our past. Mitochondrial DNA points to the genes in that organelle tracing back to a single female ancestor who lived about 140,000 years ago, but that genes on the Y chromosome trace back to one male who lived about 60,000-90,000 years ago. Further, the bulk of genes in the nucleus all trace back to different times—as far back as two million years. This shows not only that any “Adam” and “Eve” (in the sense of mitochondrial and Y-chromosome DNA alone) must have lived thousands of years apart, but also that there simply could not have been two individuals who provided the entire genetic ancestry of modern humans. Each of our genes “coalesces” back to a different ancestor, showing that, as expected, our genetic legacy comes from many different individuals. It does not go back to just two individuals, regardless of when they lived.

These are the scientific facts.

LOTs of scientific journals that conclude the same thing. Irrefutable scientific fact.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
I feel like this is a desperate attempt to demonize Islam.

That's because you are being defensive and you didn't read the thread.

Show me in the Quran where it says its OK to molest children?

I never said that it did. Darknstormy mistakenly said that child molestation doesn't happen in Islam. I have shown that it does. In fact, there is a much higher rate of child abuse/sexual abuse in Islamic countries then in developed Western ones. His claim was false.

How do you classify an "Islamic country" ? Saudi Arabia ? Marroco ? Afghanistan? One could make the claim that the majority of inhabitants are some form of muslim. (Meaning sect)
Just as one could claim the majority of US inhabitants are of some form of Christian .

But does the US let "Christan child molesters represent Christianity"?
No way right?

Anyway according to wiki your wrong.

The global prevalence of child sexual abuse has been estimated at 19.7% for females and 7.9% for males, according to a 2009 study published in Clinical Psychology Review that examined 65 studies from 22 countries. Using the available data, the highest prevalence rate of child sexual abuse geographically was found in Africa (34.4%), primarily because of high rates in South Africa; Europe showed the lowest prevalence rate (9.2%); America and Asia had prevalence rates between 10.1% and 23.9%.[

en.m.wikipedia.org...

FACT - People in Muslim countries can be ... and many times are ... put to death for 'leaving Islam'.

Apostasy in Islam

Sharia is also used in Sudan, Libya, Afghanistan, and Somalia. Some states in northern Nigeria have reintroduced Sharia courts. In practice the new Sharia courts in Nigeria have most often meant the reintroduction of relatively harsh punishments without respecting the much tougher rules of evidence and testimony of regular courts. The punishments include amputation of one/both hand(s) for theft, stoning for adultery, and execution for apostasy. In 1980, Pakistan, under the leadership of President Zia-ul-Haq, the Federal Shariat Court was created and given jurisdiction to examine any existing law to ensure it was not repugnant to Islam[53] and in its early acts it passed ordinances that included five that explicitly targeted religious minorities: a law against blasphemy; a law punishing the defiling of the Qur'an; a prohibition against insulting the wives, family, or companions of the Prophet of Islam; and two laws specifically restricting the activities of Ahmadis, who were declared non-Muslims.

Under traditional Islamic law[54] an apostate may be given up to three days while in incarceration to repent and accept Islam again and if not the apostate is to be killed without any reservations.

Pregnant Christian Woman to be put to death for 'leaving islam'

64% of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan Support Death Penalty for Leaving Islam

One of the questions, which Pew asked of Muslims in 38 countries from Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East, was whether or not they support making sharia the official law in the country. In many countries, the answer was overwhelmingly yes, although Pew notes that many respondents said sharia should apply only to Muslims and, just as importantly, that "Muslims differ widely in how they interpret certain aspects of sharia, including whether divorce and family planning are morally acceptable." Many respondents reject the stricter laws and punishments for which sharia is often, fairly or unfairly, known in the West. In other words, just because some people say they support sharia law does not mean they want to make their neighbors live in a 9th-century-style caliphate.

Still, amid an otherwise innocuous or even reassuring report, Pew's study found some disturbing details. One that jumped out for me was the alarmingly high share of Muslims in some Middle Eastern and South Asian countries who say they support the death penalty for any Muslim who leaves the faith or converts to another.

According to Pew's data, 78 percent of Afghan Muslims say they support laws condemning to death anyone who gives up Islam. In both Egypt and Pakistan, 64 percent report holding this view. This is also the majority view among Muslims in Malaysia, Jordan and the Palestinian territories.

17 Year Old Girl Beaten To Death for Leaving Islam
Afghan Parlament Member Calls To Execute Christian Converts
Somolia Christian Widow Killed Four Months After Husband Slain - Converts
Christian Convert in Somalia Jailed and Tortured for Leaving Islam
Pakistan - Entire Family Threatened with Death for Leaving Islam
Egypt - Mother and 7 Children Jailed for 15 Years for Leaving Islam
Teenage Girl in Tanzania Gets 2 Year Prison Sentence For Leaving Islam
Tons more articles .... easy to find ...

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
How do you classify an "Islamic country"

Darknstormy said Muslims don't molest children. I showed that they do indeed .. and in high numbers. It happens everywhere. Muslims aren't exempt. And you know very well what a 'Muslim country' is. Majority Muslim. Muslim rules.

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
Anyway according to wiki your wrong.

No. I"m correct. There are high numbers for child abuse in Muslim countries. There is child abuse everywhere and Darknstormy was wrong. It DOES happen frequently in Muslim countries and/or with Muslims.
Child Abuse Stats for Muslims

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Okay that leads us to FACT - Muhammad never proved his claims of visions. That's an obvious one. There is no proof. And the fact that he got everything wrong and that his stories have been proven false, that proves that he didn't get any visions from God because God wouldn't make any errors. But Muhammad did make errors. There is no Adam and Eve. There is no Noahs Ark. And his stories were just poorly plagiarized from the other well-established religions in the area.

ETA ... Want me to keep going down the list, or is that enough for you to chew on for a while??

Sodomy permissible while engaged in Jihada reply to: LightningStrikesHere
No amount of evidence is good enough for you and you have been presented with enough for conviction. You act as though you are a blind man and you refuse to see. Mohammed had sex with children, your false prophet is a lie. Your religious leaders brainwash you into a life of poverty while they hoard cash and gold and have hidden their Rolls Royces from your eyes.
Your religion and it's adherents have committed vulgar acts against it's own women and children and it's end goal is to force itself on everyone. You are fully aware of these truths and instead of answering the charges you point a finger at the Jews.
It is always pointless to debate with a stubborn,stupid,jackass. They will turn their head from the nourishing waters and die of thirst out of spite and ignorance.

So I am leaving this thread to you and your other thirsty friends.

One last thing, I also served in Desert Shield/Storm and those Muslim Men were performing sodomistic acts on each other on the DL and it is quite common and accepted behavior in the field, when there are no women around, even though they never speak of it or admit it.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Okay that leads us to FACT - Muhammad never proved his claims of visions. That's an obvious one. There is no proof. And the fact that he got everything wrong and that his stories have been proven false, that proves that he didn't get any visions from God because God wouldn't make any errors. But Muhammad did make errors. There is no Adam and Eve. There is no Noahs Ark. And his stories were just poorly plagiarized from the other well-established religions in the area.

ETA ... Want me to keep going down the list, or is that enough for you to chew on for a while??

It seems all your links are in favor of the discrimination of Islam.
You sound like a broken record really ...

Not sure howany times i have to repeat my self .. I have provided you with answers reguarding aposticy in Islam.
Child abuse happens all over the place . including Muslim countries.. But to say the majority is in "Muslim lands " is pure ignorance.
Their is no scripture in the Quran or hadith that says " molest children" ..

Regarding the Adam and eve thing ..

So how were we created ? Did we evolve from apes? Why are their still apes today?
The fact remains that we need a man and woman to create life .

Every creation has a creator. Does it not?

The genetic evidence is consistent with human DNA being “young” and the human race beginning with a very small starting population (the Bible tells us the starting population was two people!).

The International HapMap project endeavors to study a select group of DNA similarities and differences between humans known as single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs).5 The SNPs are believed to be representative of the genome (total human DNA) such that what is true for them would be true for the whole genome. These studies and others have shown that the difference in DNA between any two humans is amazingly low . . . only 0.1 percent.6

Reflecting on this very low percentage, some scientists posited, “This proportion is low compared with those of many other species, from fruit flies to chimpanzees, reflecting the recent origins of our species from a small founding population” (emphases mine).7 They also stated, “[Certain genetic estimates] tell us that humans vary only slightly at the DNA level and that only a small proportion of this variation separates continental populations.”8

answersingenesis.org...


This debate is endless ... I have found my religion that has brought me peace ,love,and compassion..

It has not taught me to rape and murder...

Their is one that that we are sure of in life and that's death.

What will your death bring ? Nothingness ?

I would much rather die knowing that in my death I I'll find life again.

originally posted by: abe froman
Sodomy permissible while engaged in Jihada reply to: LightningStrikesHere
No amount of evidence is good enough for you and you have been presented with enough for conviction. You act as though you are a blind man and you refuse to see. Mohammed had sex with children, your false prophet is a lie. Your religious leaders brainwash you into a life of poverty while they hoard cash and gold and have hidden their Rolls Royces from your eyes.
Your religion and it's adherents have committed vulgar acts against it's own women and children and it's end goal is to force itself on everyone. You are fully aware of these truths and instead of answering the charges you point a finger at the Jews.
It is always pointless to debate with a stubborn,stupid,jackass. They will turn their head from the nourishing waters and die of thirst out of spite and ignorance.

So I am leaving this thread to you and your other thirsty friends.

One last thing, I also served in Desert Shield/Storm and those Muslim Men were performing sodomistic acts on each other on the DL and it is quite common and accepted behavior in the field, when there are no women around, even though they never speak of it or admit it.

This is your version of Islam not the version that is dear to all rest of Us Muslims.

Your convictions lack knowlege and understanding.

And I never pointed any fingers at Jews ..

I am humble in my religion , I only wish peace and love for all man kind .
Not death and destruction.

Your right you won't change my mind.

Allahu Ackbar!

God is indeed great ..

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere
The real reason mulsims are always declaring Jihad?

a reply to: FlyersFan

Great, well you just proved that Jesus was a liar and a hoaxster from the Biblical perspective also.... And taking into consideration that the Bible is fabricated (No-one can deny that), that must mean the Bible is 100% unreliable and not the word of God but the word of Men. Jesus referred to Noah's time, he used it as an example of what was to come, I guess he was just pulling his followers legs when he mentioned it?

As for Mohammad, your opinions are based off ridiculous lies that have been orchestrated by Western Atheist scholars. Your citation is crap, Wiki anything is about as reliable as the Bible.. As for Islam, it isn't going anywhere, it is the fastest growing religion in the world and that is what matters. No-one cares about your assumptions, there are real people out there flocking to this religion and I like it.

For Pedophilia, I agree that it happens everywhere and why you idiots would use it against one group of people bedazzles me. Some of the worst pedophiles are walking on our streets, protected by our pedophile politicians and legal system, in civilised or 1st world countries. But that's the benchmark Western world for ya.

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere
The real reason mulsims are always declaring Jihad?

Seriously? Who ever made that up is a f**king idiot. Go to the scriptures or shut up.

a reply to: DarknStormy
It's the TRUTH!!!! (which you hate)

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: FlyersFan

Great, well you just proved that Jesus was a liar and a hoaxster from the Biblical perspective also.... And taking into consideration that the Bible is fabricated (No-one can deny that), that must mean the Bible is 100% unreliable and not the word of God but the word of Men. Jesus referred to Noah's time, he used it as an example of what was to come, I guess he was just pulling his followers legs when he mentioned it?

As for Mohammad, your opinions are based off ridiculous lies that have been orchestrated by Western Atheist scholars. Your citation is crap, Wiki anything is about as reliable as the Bible.. As for Islam, it isn't going anywhere, it is the fastest growing religion in the world and that is what matters. No-one cares about your assumptions, there are real people out there flocking to this religion and I like it.

For Pedophilia, I agree that it happens everywhere and why you idiots would use it against one group of people bedazzles me. Some of the worst pedophiles are walking on our streets, protected by our pedophile politicians and legal system, in civilised or 1st world countries. But that's the

benchmark Western world for ya.

Masha Allah ! May Allah reward you for your efforts!

Unfortunately I don't have the full resources to refute the claims of the above members because I am on my cell phone preparing for travel.

Everyone has an opinion on life and creation.

But it is the people who have a spiritual understanding that will prosper.

Threads like these kind of hit home for me , because its hard to put my feelings into words , I used to very much be like these posters
I was probably worse ... I am thankful I didn't fallow my brother into the military to "go kill Muslims" after 9/11.

How can you explain to people that their is spiritual knowledge that anyone can tap into if they search for it ?
Sadly I have forgotten the steps I took that brought me out of the darkness of atheism .
Honestly I think it all started with prayer...
Anyway thanks for your post


Peace and blessings

LSH

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: DarknStormy
It's the TRUTH!!!! (which you hate)

Sodomy is one of the greatest crimes against Islam, against Judaism and Christianity. If you believe that this person is telling the truth, then you are an idiot. Any form of Sodomy is punishable by death and it doesn't matter whether you are launching Jihad or not.

Narrated AbuHurayrah: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: He who has intercourse with his wife through her anus is accursed.

Abu Dawud 11:2157

Yes, it's even a crime too try it with your wife in Islam...

The Prophet (Allah Bless him and give him peace) said,
"He who sodomizes a woman is accursed."

So what makes you think it would be OK for any Jihadist to commit something that is frowned upon in Islam? The truth is the guy in you link is an imbecile.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

With all the crap that flies around I can hardly blame people for the way they see things. All it takes is one massive lie and next thing we know we have a fact and truth. The only fact that is reliable in Islam is the Qu'ran. If people cannot study the Islamic teachings with a spiritual thinking process then they have no credibility in my eyes. The Qu'ran was never a historical account, it is a book of signs and many of them regardless of what people think are happening right now.

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
It seems all your links are in favor of the discrimination of Islam.

No. Just factual information.

You sound like a broken record really ...

Right back atchya.

But to say the majority is in "Muslim lands " is pure ignorance.

Show me where I said that the majority happens in 'muslim lands'. No where.
I said they have high rates of it happening in Muslim lands. But not 'the majority'.
I said very clearly .. it happens everywhere.

Their is no scripture in the Quran or hadith that says " molest children" ..

Show me where I said that it was. No where.

So how were we created ?

I showed how we were NOT created. We were NOT created instantly within the past 8,000 years. We came about gradually and became humanoid in the past hundreds of thousands of years. DNA PROVES that we did not come from two human beings in the past 8,000 years .. not the past 10,000 years ... not the past 100,000 years. It didn't happen.

The genetic evidence is consistent with human DNA being “young”

That's simply not true. Humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years .. NOT 6,000 or 8,000 years like the religious texts claim. It's not possible. I have already proven it.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
your opinions are based off ridiculous lies that have been orchestrated by Western Atheist scholars.

They aren't my opinions. They are fact.

For Pedophilia, I agree that it happens everywhere and why you idiots would use it against one group of people bedazzles me.

Funny guy. First you say pedophilia doesn't happen in Islam and you use pedophilia against 'one group of people' (westerners or Catholics or whatever) ... and now you backpeddle and say it DOES happen in Islam and you shake your fist at those who 'use it against one group of people'. Dude ... YOU did that. Not us. We aren't sitting here saying it doesn't happen in western countries but only in Islam. Get real.

Oh .. and calling those who disagree with you 'you idiots' ?? Really?? Considering what you just got caught doing ... that's a riot!

originally posted by: DarknStormy
The only fact that is reliable in Islam is the Qu'ran.

Fact - Adam and Eve didn't happen. Fact - Noahs Ark didn't happen. Fact - Abraham didn't build the Kaaba and wasn't in Mecca. Fact - Exodus didn't happen. Fact - the Quran isn't reliable because the 'messenger' made up a bunch of hooey and lied about it coming from God. God doesn't make mistakes and yet the Qu'ran is full of them.