Today's KORAN not the same KORAN - REVALATION

reply to: LightningStrikesHere


www.correctislamicfaith.com...

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Firstly, the Qu'ran I possess says this below.

O you who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) IS OF THEM. Surely, Allah guides not a people unjust. (Al-Maidah 5:51)

Now the thing with this verse is that it's not speaking about righteous Christians and Jews (People who live by their chosen religions) but false Christians and Jews which in todays world could include political leaders and such. The Koran clearly states that people from all the religions who believe in God/Allah and uphold their teachings have nothing to worry about so this verse does not apply to those people.

As we know today, Extremists have used the West as an avenue for funding and weapons and this also includes Al-Qaeda. So knowing that the Qu'ran says the above, how can Extremists be associated with Islam in the first place? They have used False "Christians and Jews" to launch and wage their wars against their very own people and also the people who funded them in the first place.

The verse which says all righteous religious people have nothing to fear.

Say: "O People of the Book! You have no ground to stand upon unless you stand fast by the law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that comes to you from your Lord, that increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But grieve you not over people without faith. Those who believe (in the Qu'ran), those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), and the Sabians and Christians - any who Believe in Allah and the Last day, and work righteousness-on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve (Al-Maidah 5:68)

How can Extremists associate themselves with Islam when there actions are contrary to the teachings of Islam in the frst place? I don't know what Qu'ran you have been reading but how can you miss important information like that when it comes to Islam and the people who proclaim to be fighting in the name of it with Western Jihad?

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Clam down buddy, I understand that you want to teach me about my religion. But in this case I think the student is more knowledgeable.
Maybe this will help you out a bit.


www.abovetopsecret.com...


Maybe you can introduce me to your friends ?

Oh im perfectly calm, thats why im talking common sense....

Nothing in my post presumed to teach you anything about your religion, but thats some pretty efficient deflection there, ive seen it plenty of times when people dont want to hold themselves or their belief systems accountable for deplorable actions....

Truth is truth, and nothing about what I posted above was untrue....

Thanks for not replying to the substance of the post tho....

Its clear this conversation isnt going anywhere.....youre currently in debate as we speak with someone on this thread who is of your own religion.....

Seems to me you just like to argue....

Good luck w that....it solves nothing and does nothing to change the world view of your religion, if you want it to change be an example.....

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Firstly, the Qu'ran I possess says this below.

O you who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) IS OF THEM. Surely, Allah guides not a people unjust. (Al-Maidah 5:51)

Now the thing with this verse is that it's not speaking about righteous Christians and Jews (People who live by their chosen religions) but false Christians and Jews which in todays world could include political leaders and such. The Koran clearly states that people from all the religions who believe in God/Allah and uphold their teachings have nothing to worry about so this verse does not apply to those people.

As we know today, Extremists have used the West as an avenue for funding and weapons and this also includes Al-Qaeda. So knowing that the Qu'ran says the above, how can Extremists be associated with Islam in the first place? They have used False "Christians and Jews" to launch and wage their wars against their very own people and also the people who funded them in the first place.

The verse which says all righteous religious people have nothing to fear.

Say: "O People of the Book! You have no ground to stand upon unless you stand fast by the law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that comes to you from your Lord, that increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But grieve you not over people without faith. Those who believe (in the Qu'ran), those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), and the Sabians and Christians - any who Believe in Allah and the Last day, and work righteousness-on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve (Al-Maidah 5:68)

How can Extremists associate themselves with Islam when there actions are contrary to the teachings of Islam in the frst place? I don't know what Qu'ran you have been reading but how can you miss important information like that when it comes to Islam and the people who proclaim to be fighting in the name of it with Western Jihad?

Beautiful explanation and understanding ! I am impressed . these people we concider them to be "Khuwaraij ".

Maybe my thread here can maybe shed some light on it for you and answer your question



www.abovetopsecret.com...

Understand that even though these "khuwaraij" are sinners ,most of them are not "kafir" (disbelievers) ALLAH (GOD) is most merciful most gracious.
But still they are accountable for their actions . and killing innocent & blowing yourself up still pays a heavy price weather your a believer or not.

Ultimately these people will end up in hell (separation from god) for their actions

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Firstly, the Qu'ran I possess says this below.

O you who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) IS OF THEM. Surely, Allah guides not a people unjust. (Al-Maidah 5:51)

Now the thing with this verse is that it's not speaking about righteous Christians and Jews (People who live by their chosen religions) but false Christians and Jews which in todays world could include political leaders and such. The Koran clearly states that people from all the religions who believe in God/Allah and uphold their teachings have nothing to worry about so this verse does not apply to those people.

As we know today, Extremists have used the West as an avenue for funding and weapons and this also includes Al-Qaeda. So knowing that the Qu'ran says the above, how can Extremists be associated with Islam in the first place? They have used False "Christians and Jews" to launch and wage their wars against their very own people and also the people who funded them in the first place.

The verse which says all righteous religious people have nothing to fear.

Say: "O People of the Book! You have no ground to stand upon unless you stand fast by the law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that comes to you from your Lord, that increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But grieve you not over people without faith. Those who believe (in the Qu'ran), those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), and the Sabians and Christians - any who Believe in Allah and the Last day, and work righteousness-on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve (Al-Maidah 5:68)

How can Extremists associate themselves with Islam when there actions are contrary to the teachings of Islam in the frst place? I don't know what Qu'ran you have been reading but how can you miss important information like that when it comes to Islam and the people who proclaim to be fighting in the name of it with Western Jihad?

Beautiful explanation and understanding ! I am impressed . these people we concider them to be "Khuwaraij ".

Maybe my thread here can maybe shed some light on it for you and answer your question



www.abovetopsecret.com...

Understand that even though these "khuwaraij" are sinners ,most of them are not "kafir" (disbelievers) ALLAH (GOD) is most merciful most gracious.
But still they are accountable for their actions . and killing innocent & blowing yourself up still pays a heavy price weather your a believer or not.

Ultimately these people will end up in hell (separation from god) for their actions


ETA: Please understand that the Quran requires Hadith to fully understand every ayia

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Clam down buddy, I understand that you want to teach me about my religion. But in this case I think the student is more knowledgeable.
Maybe this will help you out a bit.


www.abovetopsecret.com...


Maybe you can introduce me to your friends ?

Oh im perfectly calm, thats why im talking common sense....

Nothing in my post presumed to teach you anything about your religion, but thats some pretty efficient deflection there, ive seen it plenty of times when people dont want to hold themselves or their belief systems accountable for deplorable actions....

Truth is truth, and nothing about what I posted above was untrue....

Thanks for not replying to the substance of the post tho....

Its clear this conversation isnt going anywhere.....youre currently in debate as we speak with someone on this thread who is of your own religion.....

Seems to me you just like to argue....

Good luck w that....it solves nothing and does nothing to change the world view of your religion, if you want it to change be an example.....

Right.....its obvious you didn't read the link I provided you with. It addressed your question..

And I do believe you were trying to "teach me/ tell me" things about My religion that are simply not true.

Your ignorance showes in every post. Your hostile .. And refuse to have an open mind . I have presented facts and text to correct all the misinformation on this thread . .what have you brought? Nothing your just pointing and barking .

Also please tell me who else is Muslim on this thread besides me ??????

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

You have presented no facts, you have refuted my facts with opinion.........

Please show me where I was hostile?

There again, you are trying to obfuscate and deflect...........

just because someone doesnt agree with you doesnt mean they are hostile.......

This is a one sided conversation it seems.......and since its clear you cannot admit the fault of the people of the religion itself, or the things that need the change.......

And since you cannot concede the obvious flaws and harm caused by large groups of people in this religion ....

This conversation has apparently become moot........

good luck

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Really , you accuse me of being hostile, but then proceed to call me names?

Extremely off topic, and if you will actually pay attention to the people on the thread that you have conversed with you could answer your own questions..........

Im not going to spoon feed you......and yes ive read everything you have shown me, it still does not address the facts or the issue .....

Again, since you insist on now name calling like were on a grade school playground, im removing myself from this dead end conversation.....

Good day

Sheesh dude. ...


Lets start over..

What question do you have?

Ill do my best to answer ok?

No need to cause friction here ..

I am sorry if you feel i have insulted you.

Also i am still curious about who els is Muslim on this thread?
Can you provide me with that info?

Humbly


LSH

Other members are not the topic...

So, please get back on topic....
--Off Topic, One Liners and General Back Scratching Posts--

You are responsible for your own posts.

We expect civility and decorum within all topics.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

I have studied Islamic Eschatology for the last 5 years or so. The Hadiths are a crucial part of my study.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere
I have studied Islamic Eschatology for the last 5 years or so. The Hadiths are a crucial part of my study.

I love it. I mean Eschatology. There is a hadith which says Ahlul Bait is like ark of Noah. Amazingly Jesus says coming of "son of man" is like ark of Noah. And Mahdi is from Ahlul Bait !
Ark of Noah is the code. It is placed in Ararat. Amazingly it is pointing towards Mecca Where Mahdi will emerge.
The story of Noah in Koran is also interesting. Koran has been always preserved by public not by elites behind the closed doors. There is only one Koran in the world, all the muslims, without any exception.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

I have studied Islamic Eschatology for the last 5 years or so. The Hadiths are a crucial part of my study.

That's wonderful! Keep studying their is allot to learn.

But understand that its very very important where you take your knowledge from.

Over the many years Muslims have introduced "innovation" into Islam And it has become a terrible cancer in Islam.

From it new sects have created , many extremists groups ect ect .

See I am salafi and the salfi take in the most accurate information .

That means we only take from the Shahaba (first three generations after prophet Muhammad) anything after that is questionable.

Many Muslims don't agree with the salafi aqueeda (methodology ) because we root out all innovation and only go off fact.

That means refuting hadith , only accepting stronge hadith and discarding weak hadith.

I can go on forever but salafi = accepting only truth and traceable fact.

Their is a great website that will help in your study its called Islam Q and A Google it .

All the Answers given are of salafi rulings.

Anyway hope this helps !

Humbly

LSH

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

I have studied Islamic Eschatology for the last 5 years or so. The Hadiths are a crucial part of my study.

Many Muslims don't agree with the salafi aqueeda (methodology ) because we root out all innovation and only go off fact.

LSH

This is because they usually see some Slafists are acting against what you said. Completely oppositely. And they attach Kafir tag to this or that. It is nice that you are not from those ignorant ones !
Many problems among muslims are because of mutual misunderstandings.

originally posted by: maes2

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

I have studied Islamic Eschatology for the last 5 years or so. The Hadiths are a crucial part of my study.

Many Muslims don't agree with the salafi aqueeda (methodology ) because we root out all innovation and only go off fact.

LSH

This is because they usually see some Slafists are acting against what you said. Completely oppositely. And they attach Kafir tag to this or that. It is nice that you are not from those ignorant ones !
Many problems among muslims are because of mutual misunderstandings.

Your absolutely correct ! Someone who is true to the salafi aqueeda should not call any Muslims a kafir unless they openly state they are or their actions are that of a kafir.


You find allot of "khuawarij / takfire " Muslims do this. . its simply not right...


Even these "khuawarij" with their sinful crimes of killing innocent and suicide are not even kafir. ...


But your right their are minor difference between the umma that cause divisions... Sadly

But this was a pridiction by prophet Muhammad (pbuh) ..

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
a reply to: championoftruth

I'm sure you'd like to believe that.
But the people around Mohammad were obsessed with recording / preserving everything Mohammad spoke and did. The Koran, being the most important... was also preserved with the same zeal by the same people who were present when the revelations were given to Mohammad.

The Chinese whispers effect cannot be defied no matter how well they memorized it.We are not talking about a single page of text or a single line of text but thousands of pages of text passed through thousands of different people.

corruption must must must exist both intentional and unintentional.Everyone who says different is delusional and is ignorant of data transmission theory which applies regardless of your "invincible religion".

you cannot defy the laws of physics.

you cannot defy the laws of physics.mosloms are no exception.

originally posted by: championoftruth
"Chinese whispers[1] is one name for a game played around the world, in which one person whispers a message to another, which is passed through a line of people until the last player announces the message to the entire group. Errors typically accumulate in the retelling 's, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly, and often amusingly, from the one uttered by the first. Some players also deliberately alter what is being said in order to guarantee a changed message by the end of it".

en.wikipedia.org...

It occurs to me since the Koran was copied down the eons BY HAND AND SPOKEN WORD that it must be subject to the same copying errors that would effect any other text including the bible.

An Islamic Scholar has admitted that 25% of the Koran is incomprehensible due the accumulation of errors both unintentional and intentional.

The fact of the matter is that Koran may not be reliable at all for Mozloms.

Add to it the fact that it is written in ARABIC which is incomprehensible except to Saudi Arabians and is "translated" by every tom,dick and harry with a vested interest from some interest group or other it occurs to me that the modern Koran maybe invalid.

Also most Mozloms cannot read and write being a staggering 95% illiterate.

All their Koran Knowledge is "handed down" by Clerics ,Priests and many other corrupt and vested interests with an axe to grind or brainwash people into being terrorists.

Also here is something all people need to be aware of:-

"Some players also deliberately alter what is being said in order to guarantee a changed message by the end of it".

So when the Koran was being copied down the eons there was nothing to stop the copiers adding or editing it for their own agendas.


Any Mozloms here can should contribute to the discussion although I fear they will terrified of having their foundations shaken as what they believe to be written by Muhammed may actually have been garbled down the eons as explained previously.

first , i believe this topic should be opened in another forum , for this is not the right one i, and ur topic is purely about religion , anws ,

When the koran was recited upon the prophet by the angels , he was illiterate , so his companions wrote , then after his death, the khalifa omar ,and osman , ordered to gather all the scriptures in a book , and from the time of the prophet , muslims relied on memorizing the quran , not only writing it , and it was a very organized job, that required time , and many editors , and reviewers , and since there are people who memorize quran , it is not possible to manipulate its words, most of muslims memorize quran , the book is so sacred that no one could ever manipulate it , it contains miracles regarding the arabic language that no arabce literature professor can fathom , so any change would have altered the sequence of grammatical sentences in arabic, and it would be very visible to experts in the arabic language.

Iam sorry , but that is your opinion , however me and samsamm9 have provided facts and explanations , for iam a muslim , and i had these thoughts before, and did my research , and got my answers ...

originally posted by: championoftruth
All their Koran Knowledge is "handed down" by Clerics ,Priests and many other corrupt and vested interests with an axe to grind or brainwash people into being terrorists.

Do keep in mind that terrorist is YOUR term. It is the term that YOUR government which is corrupt and has a vested interest in dominating and controlling others has ground and brainwashed you into calling them terrorists (oh, but your government uses guns instead of axes).

However much changed or altered the Koran is, let me assure you, the Imams have a vested interest in remaining true to Allah's Words, lest they want to burn in Hell. As long as the overall truth of Allah's Words is continued to be passed on, the Koran, like the Bible, will be altered and changed.

What we call terrorists are actually soldiers. Get that right. Their governments are still living in the Stone Age unable to stand up to the evil Satans of the West. Therefore, their governments cannot declare War against the West...not until they get more advanced. The time draws near when this world will witness the true Wrath of God and Allah and Shiva. Embrace yourselves.

originally posted by: middleeasterndude

originally posted by: championoftruth
"Chinese whispers[1] is one name for a game played around the world, in which one person whispers a message to another, which is passed through a line of people until the last player announces the message to the entire group. Errors typically accumulate in the retelling 's, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly, and often amusingly, from the one uttered by the first. Some players also deliberately alter what is being said in order to guarantee a changed message by the end of it".

en.wikipedia.org...

It occurs to me since the Koran was copied down the eons BY HAND AND SPOKEN WORD that it must be subject to the same copying errors that would effect any other text including the bible.

An Islamic Scholar has admitted that 25% of the Koran is incomprehensible due the accumulation of errors both unintentional and intentional.

The fact of the matter is that Koran may not be reliable at all for Mozloms.

Add to it the fact that it is written in ARABIC which is incomprehensible except to Saudi Arabians and is "translated" by every tom,dick and harry with a vested interest from some interest group or other it occurs to me that the modern Koran maybe invalid.

Also most Mozloms cannot read and write being a staggering 95% illiterate.

All their Koran Knowledge is "handed down" by Clerics ,Priests and many other corrupt and vested interests with an axe to grind or brainwash people into being terrorists.

Also here is something all people need to be aware of:-

"Some players also deliberately alter what is being said in order to guarantee a changed message by the end of it".

So when the Koran was being copied down the eons there was nothing to stop the copiers adding or editing it for their own agendas.


Any Mozloms here can should contribute to the discussion although I fear they will terrified of having their foundations shaken as what they believe to be written by Muhammed may actually have been garbled down the eons as explained previously.

first , i believe this topic should be opened in another forum , for this is not the right one i, and ur topic is purely about religion , anws ,

When the koran was recited upon the prophet by the angels , he was illiterate , so his companions wrote , then after his death, the khalifa omar ,and osman , ordered to gather all the scriptures in a book , and from the time of the prophet , muslims relied on memorizing the quran , not only writing it , and it was a very organized job, that required time , and many editors , and reviewers , and since there are people who memorize quran , it is not possible to manipulate its words, most of muslims memorize quran , the book is so sacred that no one could ever manipulate it , it contains miracles regarding the arabic language that no arabce literature professor can fathom , so any change would have altered the sequence of grammatical sentences in arabic, and it would be very visible to experts in the arabic language.

Iam sorry , but that is your opinion , however me and samsamm9 have provided facts and explanations , for iam a muslim , and i had these thoughts before, and did my research , and got my answers ...

you don't understand anything do you?

you claim that mullahs remember sentence pause comma dot is absurd and shows your ignorance of basic science.

you are totally ignorant of information theory.a million words passed through a million moslom mouthings through the centuries have no relationship to the originals writings.

just accept it that mosloms are worshipping chinese whispers.

you claim:-

"""..., and since there are people who memorize quran , it is not possible to manipulate its words, most of muslims memorize quran , the book is so sacred that no one could ever manipulate it , it contains miracles regarding the arabic language that no arabce literature professor can fathom ..."

i can manipulate them in a second.

the taliban and their terrorist associates do it daily.all the rabble rousers in your midst do it every minute and justify every atrocity because it is in the koran

your claim that information theory does not apply to moslems is sheer willful arrogance and shows muslins are living in cloud cuckoo land and why they are so backwards.

look at your governments..everyone a dictatorship with secret police with huge pipelines into swiss bank accounts while you sit and bury your face in the ground praying and blame america for your sad hateful plight but yourr fellow "muslims steal steal,steal from you you you..."

muslins countries are highest on the corruption tables.explain that.

oh by the way swiss bank accounts are western.