US Charges China with Hacking

Hopefully trade is shifted from China and moved to India, a much more worthy ally, who is an ally with our allies in the region, while China is allied with our enemies. The whole situation makes no sense, and our focus needs to shift.

Looks like US tinfoil hats after 2007 could be flawed or at least backdoored...

The President Barack Obama administration said Monday that the signals intelligence unit of the Chinese military scored private secrets from Alcoa, Westinghouse, United States Steel, Allegheny Technologies, and a steelworker union among others

"The co-conspirators used e-mail messages known as 'spearfishing' messages to trick unwitting recipients into giving the co-conspirators access to their computers," according to the indictment, unsealed Monday in Pennsylvania

In 2008, according to the indictment, the hackers sent e-mails to 19 senior employees at aluminum-maker Alcoa in Pennsylvania. The account of the sender impersonated a member of the company's board of directors. The message included malware in an attachment "disguised as an agenda for Alcoa's annual board meeting." The attack led to the theft of more than 2,900 e-mail messages and 863 attachments, "including internal messages among Alcoa senior managers" discussing a Chinese acquisition, according to the indictment.

Link

a reply to: roadgravel

Exactly what this is about. If this was an isolated incident, no big deal. Every country does it. China does it on a massive scale though, hundreds and hundreds of companies, not just a few. It will have costed over 4 MILLION jobs in just Obama's Presidency.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Another thing is that the Chinese are doing this while they're in another country. Honestly, at this point, I would not be against a rule where no Chinese are allowed to enter another country, perhaps banning immigrants altogether, but that's up to the West to decide.

originally posted by: np6888
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Another thing is that the Chinese are doing this while they're in another country. Honestly, at this point, I would not be against a rule where no Chinese are allowed to enter another country, perhaps banning immigrants altogether, but that's up to the West to decide.

I think that is harsh as many Chinese are ordinary people. I think the US must divest itself of it's Chinese interests and let it stagnate. Move to India which is much more in line with our interests. Funding China is like the UK sending cash and bombing supplies to the IRA.

a reply to: crazyewok

When governments hack each other, then you can at least justify it on the ground of national security

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

This is why Snowden is a traitor. His work in trying to get the Govt. spying of US citizens is commendable. However, his other work is traitorous, US spying on enemies should be expected and commended, not revealed.

This? I have to agree with 150% and then some for good measure. Yes, Whistle blowing is necessary in a free society and blowing the top off State Secrets may even be justified when they directly break the top laws of the nation in clear ways.....which some of that did, IMO. (Standing to answer for the laws broken to do it, shows conviction...as a side thing..but I digress in a world that chuckles at such concepts)

Like you also note though, espionage has become something...dirty, but it's the game of the world and all nations play it against each other. To the best of each one's ability. Blowing THAT information put the U.S. at what I can only hope isn't a terminal disadvantage someday.

I can never forget how a Russian Agency literally went to electric typewriters for a time and China replaced large segments of it's networks before the public saw just why that was a logical move to make. LONG before. That...wasn't entirely helpful to have blown, no doubt.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I don't like this most people are good, so you can't generalize argument because you have to realize that it only takes a few bad apples to cause great damage, so you have to make sure EVERY ONE of their citizens behaves. The problem with the Chinese is that their government won't even allow you to inform them, so you can't even separate them as two entities.

Another thing is that why do you not hear of any other country' citizens doing this? It's clear that these spies are hand-picked by the Chinese government.

originally posted by: np6888
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I don't like this most people are good, so you can't generalize argument because you have to realize that it only takes a few bad apples to cause great damage, so you have to make sure EVERY ONE of their citizens behaves. The problem with the Chinese is that their government won't even allow you to inform them, so you can't even separate them as two entities.

You do that by disincentivizing their government, which is what the US appears to be doing.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Unfortunately so many people on ATS are so hellbent on the US being hurt they fail to see what Snowden did hurt Americans, not just the government. They have no clue how badly the average citizen may have to pay. Snowden does. That's all the proof I need to know he is not a patriot. It's possible his initial intentions were good, but if so, along the way, they changed.

a reply to: jude11

Can't wait until China files the same charges against the US. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well how did a third world country within the last 20 years over take the US economy ?

Hint ?

The answers lies with the worlds largest spying/hacking complex that eclipses both the US, and Russia.

That how China got to where they are.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04




Difference being it's not corporate espionage. China is stealing industrial secrets, costing millions of jobs.

No it's not, it is corporate espionage, or rather more like understood already crapola. Everybody and their granny is visiting China at this time, Iran/israel, Russia, US, blah blah in a you say this, we'll do that scenario.

a reply to: neo96

The answer is that American companies moved their industrial base there, the Chinese have no regulation or restrictions and are happy to pollute as much as possible, they have a huge workforce, and they steal whatever tech they want rather than spend the time and money to develop it.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Well first off business moves to China simply because it is cheaper to make things there, than it is here.

It is also a hell of a lot easier to steal foreign tech when their in China, but they still spy here.

American business doesn't give a ratts arse where they do business.

They never have.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Well first off business moves to China simply because it is cheaper to make things there, than it is here.

It is also a hell of a lot easier to steal foreign tech when their in China, but they still spy here.

American business doesn't give a ratts arse where they do business.

They never have.

They never did. That is changing. Not every company and not every secret is in China. They have to steal from them here. All the big secrets are in the HQ's back home.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: jhn7537
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

The hypocrisy of my Govt. is astounding...

All Governments are hypocrites. This story really is not about the US government though, it's about the Chinese Government and US businesses.

Do you want the US to lose MILLIONS of jobs (the estimate is 500k jobs a year are PERMANENTLY lost from Chinese hacking).

THAT is what this is about. This is about the Chinese government trying to put US businesses out of business, and then take their jobs.

Yeah it sucks.


But do you really think throwing a tantrum like a baby and whining is going to make it better?

You really think China will give 2 craps about your silly American arrest warrants and hand the hackers over?

NO it wont, all this has done is make the USA look like a impotent butt hurt whimp.


You want to actually STOP it? Then get you NSA to stop spending 100 of billion on domestic spying and allied spying and actually do the job it was meant to do and concentrate on the REAL threat china.

a reply to: crazyewok

Except that is not what this is. This has nothing to do with arrest warrants. It's a message. No arrests will ever be made, and is completely not the point of this. It's letting China know it's gone too far, and if it doesn't stop, well .. someone once said it's better to not wake a sleeping Dragon.

originally posted by: crazyewok

NO it wont, all this has done is make the USA look like a impotent butt hurt cry baby.

OMG crazyewok.... um ... how-do-I-say-this.
[whispers] please never put the phrase "butt hurt" and the word "baby" together in a sentence, ever again.

originally posted by: crazyewok
You really think China will give 2 craps about your silly American arrest warrants and hand the hackers over?

Sure, why not.
Get them some million dollar lawyers,
and win the case in open court in America.
I would be a major coup for China.

But the evasiveness, blame shifting, and foot dragging is the behavior of a young child.


Mike Grouchy

Interesting piece here

Here

In part

The author of Enter The Cyber Dragon, a 2013 analysis of Chinese cyber intelligence capabilities, Dr Feakin says "what this is about is the US trying to switch the flow of traffic, turn the narrative around on cyber espionage". "We saw a real push at the beginning of last year by the US in an attempt to try and call China out in terms of cyber activity ......... the revelations of National Security Agency (NSA) contractor turned whistleblower Edward Snowden who exposed details of America's global cyber-espionage capabilities "almost single-handedly swiped that narrative. The moral high ground narrative.

So in his opinion this whole mess is simply the US saying, "Well, you do it too!"

P

a reply to: pheonix358

That's his opinion. I quoted from an actual corporation affected that stated they have been trying to get China to stop, and China said no. This costs 500k jobs a year that are PERMANENTLY gone. So you keep googling to support your beliefs. Just be sure the next time someone tells you they lost their job that you tell them you think America is bad so you don't care.