Ice Cream Trucks ... ( Another Form Of Racism ??? )

Just to further the point (now with pictures).


I think ATS should have this symbol on the bar on top..

Its a swastika..symbol of auspiciousness and prosperity.
Surely nothing bad could come from it.

So, whatcha say? new ATS logo?
...
no? hmm..why..its not a racist symbol..it was simply hijacked by a bunch of jerks for awhile, but hey, that's history..who cares.

a reply to: SaturnFX

originally posted by: yeahright
a reply to: SaturnFX

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

How much digging should we do to find reasons to be offended? Comparing the swastika to Turkey in the Straw is reaching so far, I'm surprised you didn't dislocate a shoulder.

You want to find connections for reasons to be offended, you'll sure stay busy.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Its not about digging for reasons to be offended. hell, I am in favor of burying the past ugly bits if possible.

But once someone unearths something..should we ignore it is the question here...

a reply to: SaturnFX

So any song that someone has taken the tune of and added racist lyrics should be removed from society?

If that doesnt scream "Orwell", I dont know what does...

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SaturnFX

So I am confused what you actually want to get out of this thread. What are you arguing? That we should ban this song? We should drudge up dark history thereby stirring up racism and new hatred? What point are you trying to make here?

Ban? who said ban?

No one, just hypothesizing your intent.

If I was a ice cream truck driver (would never happen...like a crackhead selling crack..would eat all the product), I would, upon learning of the historical significance of the jingle..flip the tape.

As a business owner that is your right, and I really don't care one way or the other. As I have mentioned here in Baltimore they don't even play that song anymore and haven't for a while.

Once you find something in potentially bad taste, you change it.

Not me, if I find something that people find offensive or in bad taste for silly reasons, I tend to apply it more often. This OP is a prime example. If someone gets offended because a silly melody had racist lyrics at ONE point in the melody's lifespan (again wasn't the original song), then I will be sure to laugh at them for it. Why should I tip-toe around other people's sensibilities? If you can't even be bothered to learn and understand how music develops and changes over time then proceed to get offended at a song because at ONE point in the song's lifespan it had racist lyrics sung over it, then you deserve to be laughed at for getting offended at it. The battle against stupidity and ignorance is a long one, and one of the best weapons against it is ridicule and satire. Not to mention stupidity is much more dangerous than racism (it being a root cause of racism being one of the reasons for that).

Makes more business sense that way (why purposefully potentially offend people when a simple hitting the next on the player resolves all that)..its not like the jingle is amazing.

Have you seen an ice cream truck before? Or rather listened to one? I find it hard to believe they have a "next" button on their music soundtrack. More like just one song stuck on infinite repeat (which is why I could never work in an ice cream truck cause I'd go crazy listening to that same song over and over again everyday).

But that is besides the point. You aren't thinking of your market demographic here as a business. An ice cream truck's primary customers are children, and young children at that. If they even have an INKLING of an idea that this song was ever racist, it's because of their parents telling them so, but you can count on the fact that these parent's influence probably won't extend to all the neighborhood children. If these parents decide to take legal action, then maybe change the song. Obviously, they'd lose the case, but you could lose valuable customers, but until that happens I see nothing wrong.

Believe it or not major corporations rely on you not knowing the real history behind many of the products they sell you on a regular basis and even if you do find out about it, usually you don't care either way. Look at Wal-mart, we hear about their shady business practices all the time, yet people continue to shop there. What makes you think that a child learning that a song being played by a roving truck with their favorite desert is racist is going to immediately shun this delicacy over some old fashioned irrelevant hate?

Now, if you want to fight tooth and nail for your right to play a song that has a history of racial stereotyping, that's your right...but I wonder why...makes no sense on any real level.

I fight tooth and nail against all ignorance and stupidity, which this OP clearly is. Someone has to.

Right to do what you want
Common damn sense to not do it once you become aware of it being in bad taste.

Hey did you know that Dumbo has a bunch of racist caricatures of black people with the crows? How many people do you hear calling out Dumbo for racism and being offensive? Seriously, there are MANY MANY MANY much loved things that children eat, play, or watch that have racist histories to them. We still let them do these things because they don't understand the hate and see past it. It is ALWAYS parents who bring the hate into the discussion. The poor taste is with the people who drudged up this history (while conveniently leaving out that the song is actually older than they claim and started out lyricless) trying to race bait people into hating part of a simple pass time and joy of children all throughout the US and of all races.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to:

But, to take your line "cool story bro. If you said it it must be true".

ok, lets return to civil discourse.
I am going to ask you simply, do you see the argument being raised here? (check out the post I made with the swastika for reference up above a bit).
I understand what your saying..that the origins was not racist. Can you meet in the middle and see how hijacking something can taint it?
Personally, I don't feel very strongly about it outside of a honest discussion about if tainted symbols should continue to be used wisely for purposes of business.

I respect your opinion to disagree about this being racist, hopefully you respect my position that this has racism -attached- to it and should be considered.

Sorry about the name calling. I am man PMSing today...but I do expect you to at least understand the opposing position...not agree..but understand clearly.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: yeahright
a reply to: SaturnFX

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

How much digging should we do to find reasons to be offended? Comparing the swastika to Turkey in the Straw is reaching so far, I'm surprised you didn't dislocate a shoulder.

You want to find connections for reasons to be offended, you'll sure stay busy.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Its not about digging for reasons to be offended. hell, I am in favor of burying the past ugly bits if possible.

But once someone unearths something..should we ignore it is the question here...

Yes we should ignore it, especially when it has been shown that the truth was stretched to get you to think a certain way (again the article presented the original incarnation of the song as racist which wasn't true). This whole article in the OP should just be an "Oh ok, that's interesting, let's move on with my life now," moment, but because it was presented in a way to troll racist hunters, we get this thread instead.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
An ice cream truck's primary customers are children, and young children at that. If they even have an INKLING of an idea that this song was ever racist, it's because of their parents telling them so,

Actually, the market is for the parents (the moneyholders) in the end. the kids are just the whiney carrier between the guy in the truck and the wallet in dads pocket.

If dad doesn't like it, then he will say no to the kid (maybe make up for it by bringing them to a ice cream shop or something)

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
But they don't even play the lyrics... How can a melody be racist?

"Man that chord progression just tells a tale of lynching. Just look a B MINOR! How racist can you get!? The nerve of that song."

And yet, now you know how it is. heh.
Rope hanging from a tree is not inherently racist...until you realize it was used by a group against another group...would you then keep said rope in tree for decoration? after all, its just rope...

So what do you think about rap? And don't hold back this time, let out your inner FX.

Turkey in the straw isn't racist...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: yeahright
a reply to: SaturnFX

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

How much digging should we do to find reasons to be offended? Comparing the swastika to Turkey in the Straw is reaching so far, I'm surprised you didn't dislocate a shoulder.

You want to find connections for reasons to be offended, you'll sure stay busy.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Its not about digging for reasons to be offended. hell, I am in favor of burying the past ugly bits if possible.

But once someone unearths something..should we ignore it is the question here...

Yes we should ignore it, especially when it has been shown that the truth was stretched to get you to think a certain way (again the article presented the original incarnation of the song as racist which wasn't true). This whole article in the OP should just be an "Oh ok, that's interesting, let's move on with my life now," moment, but because it was presented in a way to troll racist hunters, we get this thread instead.

Fair enough. Its not a huge issue, and as pointed out, lots of things have racism attached to it in history. Disturbing, but perhaps just a interesting footnote.
I don't feel like spending much more time on this thread, because although I do feel passionately about issues of race, I don't feel very passionate about this particular issue...this requires a decent amount of research to get offended and ultimately isn't some hidden racist joke being played daily...its simply a forgotten footnote

a reply to: SaturnFX

I'd personally have no problem with that symbol. To me the four dots in the middle of it represent a completely different thing than Nazism and I'm not even from India. It just doesn't look very Nazish to me. That's my personal perception though. HOWEVER this whole anecdote doesn't apply to our discussion because the Nazis still use that symbol (minus the dots) to represent themselves. The song in the OP is played lyricless to a bunch of children who don't know the history behind it. So you are comparing apples to oranges here.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
But they don't even play the lyrics... How can a melody be racist?

"Man that chord progression just tells a tale of lynching. Just look a B MINOR! How racist can you get!? The nerve of that song."

And yet, now you know how it is. heh.
Rope hanging from a tree is not inherently racist...until you realize it was used by a group against another group...would you then keep said rope in tree for decoration? after all, its just rope...

So what do you think about rap? And don't hold back this time, let out your inner FX.

some is better than others.
Eminem is a Cylon

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: SaturnFX

Ever listen to some of the Rap music out there?

I guess Warner brothers is going to have to re edit all of their old cartoons from the 60's to scrub this song as well?

Yea, I remembered this song playing on a few of their cartoons I'm that old!

Rap music? I don't think ice cream trucks should be playing rap music...but if they do, I hope its busta rhymes...he amuses me.

I think what was done in history, was done. Learn from it, chuckle at some of our nieve ways, and move on.
But tradition steeped in racism, sexism, or really any other -ism should ultimately be dropped and shoved into a time capsule of how our nation evolved and improved...
Once you notice the error, you fix it verses keep doing it.

That's just it!

I am 51 years old and I remember the melody from Warner Brothers "Loony Toons" Cartoons as a child. It was a melody that had no words!

I am offended when I hear the N word being played in rap music! Why is this so offensive and the use of the N word in rap music not??

The "Race Card" is dead! You guys screaming "Racist" to fit your political agenda has done nothing more than make a mockery out of it.

I read an article yesterday that a sorority was told they couldn't have and all you can eat "Taco Night" as a fund raiser because it was deemed "Racist"!

Nice job to the PC police for turning a serious accusation and wrong into a joke!

That made absolutely no sense when you say the N word is offensive to you because it's used in songs... It's called slang and even white people, asians, mexicans, arabs, everybody says it when used right it doesn't bother me. But any word can be offensive used the wrong way. Someone else calls you're husband/wife by the name "sexy", Thats offensive. But used right, and it's not.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Fair enough, I will leave it at that as I think we've come to an agreement.

p.s. It's not that I don't care about real racism, I do. I just don't like it when people try to cry racism on things that aren't really racist (anymore).

a reply to: SaturnFX

1) I have no problem with the use of the swastika. The reverse swastika (the nazi symbol) is a different story.

2)heres where your "hijacking" claim falls apart, though: what is that tune better known for? Turkey in the straw, or some racist song nobody has ever heard of that is only known because people went digging for a reason to be offended? The song wasnt hijacked.

3) I absolutely respect your opinion. I hope you understand that just because I dont agree, doesnt mean im a racist, as you implied earlier (in fact, a look through my posting history will probably make you feel pretty silly on the accusation).

I do truly appreciate the return to civil discussion

Let's not drift too far off topic, Please.


Off topic would be discussing each other rather than the thread topic.


thanks

Chocolate Eclairs .... snowcones ... rocketpops .... comeon ... it's just icecream, man. Leave the icecream and the kids alone. There's nothing wrong with it. (except the sugar, and that's a totally different story).

The ones I grew up with in the 60s didn't play "Turkey in The Straw", they played something else that was very sweet and catchy and made me insane when I heard it. I became a raving zombie screaming for "CHANGE" out of mom's purse. They guys who drove the ice cream trucks were often black. All the kids would crowd forward, and we were all different races. What did we care, when there was ice cream on a hot day to be had??

There's always people who want to stir up racist junk to keep us all divided and fighting against each other, and the article by James Nye fits neatly into that category.