Ice Cream Trucks ... ( Another Form Of Racism ??? )

Odds are like most folk songs the tune was once a church hymn.
Where did they get the info that "this is the most played song?"
That sounds like a handy assertion to make the case for the article.
Nothing like real statistics to back up claims of racism.

Who alive would have know what those words for the song were without them telling us?
It's like they're trying to stir racism up, not help it go away.

Odds are like most folk songs the tune was once a church hymn.
Where did they get the info that "this is the most played song?"
That sounds like a handy assertion to make the case for the article.
Nothing like real statistics to back up claims of racism.

Who alive would have know what those words for the song were without them telling us?
It's like they're trying to stir racism up, not help it go away.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

It honestly saddens me that there are people that have already jumped on the bandwagon of "feeling guilt" about this song and having positive memories associated with it.

People need to do some research before just buying into this nonsense.

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
a reply to: SaturnFX

No, if anything, history backs up what I am saying.

Every conflict that happens between nations boils down to us vs them mentality. The entire time humans were evolving they lived in tribes. "Racism" whether real or perceived is the us/them mentality at its finest, people want to think we have somehow evolved past that but we haven't, and we won't. Never forget that we are animals with thumbs and a big brain. Do you really think that all of a sudden hundreds of thousands of years of evolutionary programming is just going to be somehow shut off? If so that is very naive of you.

There is a lot of history we outgrow. slavery has been the staple of society ever since society first formed. same with sexism and violent rule.
I like to think that once we recognize a flaw, we can subdue and eventually eliminate such issues. It takes awhile to deprogram, but we get their in the end.

-optimist

originally posted by: NavyDoc
But again, the melody goes back to an even older British tune so, simply because one person put racist lyrics to it does not make the song racist.

Go back far enough in the history of anything and you'll find racism in every society and from every culture and race. It is a waste of time to go back a hundred years to find something to be outraged about.

I suppose your right.
Still, probably a good idea to simply change the tune should you be running a ice cream truck...standing there discussing with semi-outraged parents the value of ignoring historical quirks about a song seems tedious at best.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: NavyDoc
But again, the melody goes back to an even older British tune so, simply because one person put racist lyrics to it does not make the song racist.

Go back far enough in the history of anything and you'll find racism in every society and from every culture and race. It is a waste of time to go back a hundred years to find something to be outraged about.

I suppose your right.
Still, probably a good idea to simply change the tune should you be running a ice cream truck...standing there discussing with semi-outraged parents the value of ignoring historical quirks about a song seems tedious at best.

If someone is outraged about his, if I were an ice cream truck driver, id simply refer them to the wiki page for the song.

Labeling something as racist doesnt make it so.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to: Krazysh0t

It honestly saddens me that there are people that have already jumped on the bandwagon of "feeling guilt" about this song and having positive memories associated with it.

People need to do some research before just buying into this nonsense.

Exactly, I'm of the opinion that the word racist does more damage these days than actual racists do. It's such an easy rebuttal to throw out to shut an opposing viewpoint down or to get a popular activity (or in this case song) shunned and locked away from our collective use. I actually lose respect for an arguer if they resort to playing the race (or any bigot card) in a debate.

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Funny thing about evolution. It's always happening. Even now. So if we, as humans, start breeding out an undesirable trait, say inherent racism (let's call it tribal behavior), and instead breed towards more social and tolerant traits (let's call it collectivism), eventually humans WILL have evolved away from the tribal mentality and become a collective species (like ants). So while you may be correct that we evolved this behavior out of necessity, you are incorrect that we could never get rid of it.

So your great idea is to breed the racism out of people? Wow.....so tell me how is that going to work? What, we castrate anyone who does'nt want to sleep with a black/white girl/guy? How is it going to be determined who is racist? If I'm singing the lyrics to a Easy E song does that count as racist? Or do i have to be black?

Good luck with your eugenics program. I don't see what could possibly go wrong with a selective breeding program for racism.

I think its more social evolution.
Simply stop teaching your kids to be racist is a good step. integrated schools and the like, and make an effort to make the still existing racist completely retarded...pity works better than anger in this case actually. "pity the poor racist, they are brain damaged"...which frankly isn't far from the truth.

Selective ideal teaching seems like a good plan. so...perspective eugenics I guess.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: NavyDoc
But again, the melody goes back to an even older British tune so, simply because one person put racist lyrics to it does not make the song racist.

Go back far enough in the history of anything and you'll find racism in every society and from every culture and race. It is a waste of time to go back a hundred years to find something to be outraged about.

I suppose your right.
Still, probably a good idea to simply change the tune should you be running a ice cream truck...standing there discussing with semi-outraged parents the value of ignoring historical quirks about a song seems tedious at best.

If someone is outraged about his, if I were an ice cream truck driver, id simply refer them to the wiki page for the song.

Labeling something as racist doesnt make it so.

so, to you, endlessly trying to explain the nuances of developing songs, and losing sales if your impatient, with a potential for getting jumped by those a bit more unreasonable is more important than just flipping the tape to something a bit less controversial and making a few bucks.
gotcha.

Also...gonna assume you never ran a business

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: NavyDoc
But again, the melody goes back to an even older British tune so, simply because one person put racist lyrics to it does not make the song racist.

Go back far enough in the history of anything and you'll find racism in every society and from every culture and race. It is a waste of time to go back a hundred years to find something to be outraged about.

I suppose your right.
Still, probably a good idea to simply change the tune should you be running a ice cream truck...standing there discussing with semi-outraged parents the value of ignoring historical quirks about a song seems tedious at best.

If someone is outraged about his, if I were an ice cream truck driver, id simply refer them to the wiki page for the song.

Labeling something as racist doesnt make it so.

so, to you, endlessly trying to explain the nuances of developing songs, and losing sales if your impatient, with a potential for getting jumped by those a bit more unreasonable is more important than just flipping the tape to something a bit less controversial and making a few bucks.
gotcha.

Also...gonna assume you never ran a business

1)You're darn right. I dont cower to ignorance.

2)A bit less controversial? What is controversial? That there are some people out there that cant bother to research things before reacting with ignorance? I will say it again: THERE IS NOTHING RACIST ABOUT THIS TUNE. NOTHING.

3)Your assumption is completely and totally wrong. Ive actually run, and sold, 2 fairly successful businesses. And not once, in either of them, did I change my actions because of someone elses ignorance.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: NavyDoc
But again, the melody goes back to an even older British tune so, simply because one person put racist lyrics to it does not make the song racist.

Go back far enough in the history of anything and you'll find racism in every society and from every culture and race. It is a waste of time to go back a hundred years to find something to be outraged about.

I suppose your right.
Still, probably a good idea to simply change the tune should you be running a ice cream truck...standing there discussing with semi-outraged parents the value of ignoring historical quirks about a song seems tedious at best.

If someone is outraged about his, if I were an ice cream truck driver, id simply refer them to the wiki page for the song.

Labeling something as racist doesnt make it so.

so, to you, endlessly trying to explain the nuances of developing songs, and losing sales if your impatient, with a potential for getting jumped by those a bit more unreasonable is more important than just flipping the tape to something a bit less controversial and making a few bucks.
gotcha.

Also...gonna assume you never ran a business

1)You're darn right. I dont cower to ignorance.

2)A bit less controversial? What is controversial? That there are some people out there that cant bother to research things before reacting with ignorance? I will say it again: THERE IS NOTHING RACIST ABOUT THIS TUNE. NOTHING.

3)Your assumption is completely and totally wrong. Ive actually run, and sold, 2 fairly successful businesses. And not once, in either of them, did I change my actions because of someone elses ignorance.

1) Cool story bro.

2) Well, if you said it, it must be true (gonna assume your white)

3) Good for you.

a reply to: SaturnFX

So I am confused what you actually want to get out of this thread. What are you arguing? That we should ban this song? We should drudge up dark history thereby stirring up racism and new hatred? What point are you trying to make here? Music isn't inherently racist. It has already been shown that this song wasn't even originally racist. So should we ban all songs and melodies that get used for racist songs? Because that list will be huge and include many songs you may love just because some asshat decided to rewrite the lyrics to a catchy rock song they liked.

Music is always evolving and building off of itself. Even if the song started out racist, that still isn't a good reason to ban it as it may be a very good melody. Someone else may take that melody and write something completely different with it, or play it at a different tempo and get a whole new sound, he writes new lyrics and we'd call it a brand new song. And don't think that doesn't happen. Led Zepplin pretty much built their careers around ripping off blues songs from poor black blues singers. That's some pretty dark history (and may even be steeped in a bit of racism), but besides lawsuits forcing the band to pay royalties and give song writing credits to these blues musicians, we still hear the songs and they are still played on the radio.

So I ask again, what do you want to happen to this song? Can't it just be better if we forget that it was ever racist at any point in the melody's history? At least that way no one can hear the history and immediately become offended every time they see an ice cream truck (as stupid people with knowledge they don't know how to apply are wont to do).

The original song called "The Old Rose Tree" was not racist it was later versions made by people where they added or changed the words that made it bad.

If I sing the song "Amazing Grace" and changing the words to something racist, it does not make Amazing Grace a racist song.

The old song has been changed many times over the years. The original song is not racist.

It's a stupid article making huge leaps to try and make a sensational story about racism to get ignorant people to cry out in protest and stir crap up.

I guess it worked or there wouldn't be a thread highlighting the story.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SaturnFX

So I am confused what you actually want to get out of this thread. What are you arguing? That we should ban this song? We should drudge up dark history thereby stirring up racism and new hatred? What point are you trying to make here?

Ban? who said ban?
If I was a ice cream truck driver (would never happen...like a crackhead selling crack..would eat all the product), I would, upon learning of the historical significance of the jingle..flip the tape.
Once you find something in potentially bad taste, you change it.
Makes more business sense that way (why purposefully potentially offend people when a simple hitting the next on the player resolves all that)..its not like the jingle is amazing.
Now, if you want to fight tooth and nail for your right to play a song that has a history of racial stereotyping, that's your right...but I wonder why...makes no sense on any real level.

Right to do what you want
Common damn sense to not do it once you become aware of it being in bad taste.

originally posted by: mwood
The original song called "The Old Rose Tree" was not racist it was later versions made by people where they added or changed the words that made it bad.

Right
And that's the ultimate issue. the racial change became the more popular version.
That is ultimately what is being discussed here.

I guess it is a situation like the rebel flag. the origins may be arguably decent, but if its flown for years after by the KKK and other racial group as their symbol, it sort of taints the flag.

A perfect example is the swastika. Initially a sign of prosperity...but would you stamp the swastika on the side of your business? Would that make great sense?
Probably not..because people aren't going to have long discussions and reasonable considerations about the origins..they will see it and think..Nazi.

Sucks, but corruption does count for something in society overall.