Ice Cream Trucks ... ( Another Form Of Racism ??? )

a reply to: benrl

And that is the beauty of society. We adapt things, no matter how horrible they may be, into our lexicon and identities until we forget their origins. But those adaptations can be better than the original product and just because it may be associated with a dirty past, doesn't mean we need to shun it now. After all, how many people have skeletons in their closet that they want to move past to be better people? Everyone.

"Turkey in the Straw" is a well-known American folk song dating from the early 19th century. The song's tune is derived from the ballad "My Grandmother Lived on Yonder Little Green" which was derivative of the Irish ballad "The Old Rose Tree."

Originally a tune for fiddle players, it was first popularized in the late 1820s and early 1830s by blackface performers, notably George Washington Dixon,[2] Bob Farrell[2] and George Nichols.

en.wikipedia.org...

So no, it wasnt a 'racist song'. It was made popular by performers in blackface, and its tune was derived from a different song.

Theres a difference.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: benrl

And that is the beauty of society. We adapt things, no matter how horrible they may be, into our lexicon and identities until we forget their origins. But those adaptations can be better than the original product and just because it may be associated with a dirty past, doesn't mean we need to shun it now. After all, how many people have skeletons in their closet that they want to move past to be better people? Everyone.

Ill admit, its no confederate flag,

Part of being a better society though is having the conversation in the first place, its always better to make a conscious choice on the matter than from a stance born of ignorance.

I am not saying it shouldn't be used, I am saying its one of those relics to a worst time, and if used, perhaps it best we acknowledge its past.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: SaturnFX

Ever listen to some of the Rap music out there?

I guess Warner brothers is going to have to re edit all of their old cartoons from the 60's to scrub this song as well?

Yea, I remembered this song playing on a few of their cartoons I'm that old!

Rap music? I don't think ice cream trucks should be playing rap music...but if they do, I hope its busta rhymes...he amuses me.

I think what was done in history, was done. Learn from it, chuckle at some of our nieve ways, and move on.
But tradition steeped in racism, sexism, or really any other -ism should ultimately be dropped and shoved into a time capsule of how our nation evolved and improved...
Once you notice the error, you fix it verses keep doing it.

That's just it!

I am 51 years old and I remember the melody from Warner Brothers "Loony Toons" Cartoons as a child. It was a melody that had no words!

I am offended when I hear the N word being played in rap music! Why is this so offensive and the use of the N word in rap music not??

The "Race Card" is dead! You guys screaming "Racist" to fit your political agenda has done nothing more than make a mockery out of it.

I read an article yesterday that a sorority was told they couldn't have and all you can eat "Taco Night" as a fund raiser because it was deemed "Racist"!

Nice job to the PC police for turning a serious accusation and wrong into a joke!

Few things
1) Rap music is for adults. If an adult wants to listen to music of their choice, that's fine..be it rappers dropping the N, or some backwoods hick crap dropping the N, etc. Why is it more socially acceptable for rap music and black people in general to drop the N without consequence? Actually, because its accepted as the norm in black culture..it shouldn't be, and Bill Cosby flipped out about it...but that's what it is anyhow. but, self deprication is generally more acceptable than opposing races.
I don't get bent out of shape when a black guy calls another black guy a "nigga", but I do when that same black dude calls me whitey, or if a white dude drops the N. Context matters overall (to be honest, I don't get that bent out of shape about any of it, but I care less about self deprication than regular racism).

2) I am a "culturalist"..not a bigot nor racist...but I do find the culture I grew up in is (in my opinion) superior. My culture is that of a suburbian somewhat country lifestyle (with great love for cities..but ultimately, I like my home in the sticks near a highway with a city within a half hour ride)...When I find issues with my culture, I fix it...

3) I recommend Sorority change to sushi night...healthier. Obviously I cant comment more on that given I don't know the facts. Taco night isn't racist, its food...now if they called said taco night "Wetbacks sombrero illegal crossing taco fiesta"..then yeah...a name change may be in order at the very least..context matters here.

4) I don't feel very strongly about the ice cream truck jingle, I simply am saying...if a ice cream truck driver has it playing..change it. quite simple. The kids don't know...but the educated parent may know and may have feelings about it...feelings which may determine if they give junior a dollar to go buy the ice cream. If for business sense only, they should change it.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: HolgerTheDane2
The main gripe must surely be that most of the ice cream is white and when it's brown it is only skin deep.

Read this very short novel by Arthur C. Clarke. Brilliant.
Reunion

No, that isn't the gripe at all.

And how do you go into a discussion, not read the topic, then suggest everyone else read something when you couldn't even be bothered to read it to begin with.

(Clarke is a good author though.)

I'm sorry

Turning the table obviously is wrong to do even when meant as a joke. Too subtle?

Personally I couldn't care less what the lyrics might have been. It's a catchy tune which is why it was chosen. Probably by someone who haven't read the lyrics.

Attacking the tune itself is only empowering the original lyrics. By that logic I should stop listening to organ music because the lyrics are mostly christian?
Silly.

Ice cream.

It isn't just for lynching anymore.

*****This was brought to you by the dairy council*****

ice cream man !!



warning language.
Eddie Murphy (Ice Cream Man is comming HD)

originally posted by: benrl
But I suppose in 50 years time other cultural phenomenon that is currently ok would be just as appalling to a more enlightened society.

Wait till we find out computers are actually conscious beings we created...man, talk about an embarrassing history.

"and then every night...when nobody was around..he turned me on and.."

gah...

(your computer knows!!!)

originally posted by: FarleyWayne

originally posted by: HolgerTheDane2
The main gripe must surely be that most of the ice cream is white and when it's brown it is only skin deep.

Read this very short novel by Arthur C. Clarke. Brilliant.
Reunion

I believe this is the Author Theodore R. Johnson, III

I THINK he's trying to make some sort of name for himself ... ( and/or perhaps a future politician who idolizes Harry Reid ??? )

Not sure what you mean. ACC wrote the novel. I have his book right here on my shelf.
First published in Infinity #2, 1971

a reply to: FarleyWayne

I don't feel more or less biased because this song is imprinted in my mind.
Good to know the history though. I won't choose to play this music in any form out of deference to the ugly history.

Just a personal choice that I control. Like never listening to Sean Hannity or Ann Coulter.

Ole zip c### he played all day.....
Till the neighbours ran away.....
He played and he played by the light of the moon
But he couldn't playanything but ole zip C###
I guess im racist...I still remember singing that at cub scout campfires as well as Koombaya....

originally posted by: HolgerTheDane2
Turning the table obviously is wrong to do even when meant as a joke. Too subtle?

Perhaps. I didn't see the humor..thought you simply assumed therefore you meant what you said about how ice cream colors is the issue here. heh.

Its not the original lyrics that is the issue, its the very well accepted parody. It was soo popular that it became ultimately associated with it. I guess it would be like if Weird Al's parody became so popular that it was ultimately the thing remembered about the song and the actual song lyrics became forgotten by society.

a reply to: captaintyinknots

Somehow I had a feeling this racist version of the song was an adaptation of an earlier piece, as is how music traditionally rolls.

I have to chuckle at all of the racism this and racism that threads you see on ATS these days.

People seem to think that racism is just one day going to be all gone, people are just going to look past all of their differences and we will all hold hands and sing kumbaya.

Never going to happen folks, never ever in a million billion years are humans ever going to be like that. We did not evolve that way. We evolved with the tribal mentality. We evolved for the past quarter of a million years living out our lives in small familial tribes in fairly isolated regions of the globe. We are programmed to notice the different tribes that are out there and to stay with our own, or those we identify more with.

So go ahead, change the song, maybe it will help the world to be less racist........

On second thought no, humans will still be humans no matter what.

originally posted by: stirling
Ole zip c### he played all day.....
Till the neighbours ran away.....
He played and he played by the light of the moon
But he couldn't playanything but ole zip C###
I guess im racist...I still remember singing that at cub scout campfires as well as Koombaya....

Gonna guess there wasn't a lot of black kids in your scouting group.

originally posted by: HolgerTheDane2

originally posted by: FarleyWayne

originally posted by: HolgerTheDane2
The main gripe must surely be that most of the ice cream is white and when it's brown it is only skin deep.

Read this very short novel by Arthur C. Clarke. Brilliant.
Reunion

I believe this is the Author Theodore R. Johnson, III

I THINK he's trying to make some sort of name for himself ... ( and/or perhaps a future politician who idolizes Harry Reid ??? )

Not sure what you mean. ACC wrote the novel. I have his book right here on my shelf.
First published in Infinity #2, 1971

I believe the Original Author of "The Ice Cream Truck" is Theodore Roosevelt Johnson, III

I find Theodore's BIO as ... Interesting ???

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
I have to chuckle at all of the racism this and racism that threads you see on ATS these days.

People seem to think that racism is just one day going to be all gone, people are just going to look past all of their differences and we will all hold hands and sing kumbaya.

Never going to happen folks, never ever in a million billion years are humans ever going to be like that. We did not evolve that way. We evolved with the tribal mentality. We evolved for the past quarter of a million years living out our lives in small familial tribes in fairly isolated regions of the globe. We are programmed to notice the different tribes that are out there and to stay with our own, or those we identify more with.

So go ahead, change the song, maybe it will help the world to be less racist........

On second thought no, humans will still be humans no matter what.

History disagrees with you.
Initially (just speaking about the US here), the irish were shunned, the Italians, the germans, etc..all these different "races" that could never possibly integrate and be seen as anything but what they are...their skintone is slightly different, their culture is weird, their country of origin isn't here, etc.

Tradition is not biologically programmed. Tribal society is, and this is not a problem if you choose defense over a culture verses a skintone. I enjoy the western culture..that is my familiar root. I enjoy other cultures, but the west is the best imo...so, therein is where my defense and such lies. the many skintones within, and even the constantly changing culture of the west I am fine with.

No point in screaming about how things never change and people never recatagorize their superiority complex accordingly..because that is the traditional norm.

a reply to: SaturnFX

No, if anything, history backs up what I am saying.

Every conflict that happens between nations boils down to us vs them mentality. The entire time humans were evolving they lived in tribes. "Racism" whether real or perceived is the us/them mentality at its finest, people want to think we have somehow evolved past that but we haven't, and we won't. Never forget that we are animals with thumbs and a big brain. Do you really think that all of a sudden hundreds of thousands of years of evolutionary programming is just going to be somehow shut off? If so that is very naive of you.

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
I have to chuckle at all of the racism this and racism that threads you see on ATS these days.

People seem to think that racism is just one day going to be all gone, people are just going to look past all of their differences and we will all hold hands and sing kumbaya.

Never going to happen folks, never ever in a million billion years are humans ever going to be like that. We did not evolve that way. We evolved with the tribal mentality. We evolved for the past quarter of a million years living out our lives in small familial tribes in fairly isolated regions of the globe. We are programmed to notice the different tribes that are out there and to stay with our own, or those we identify more with.

So go ahead, change the song, maybe it will help the world to be less racist........

On second thought no, humans will still be humans no matter what.

Funny thing about evolution. It's always happening. Even now. So if we, as humans, start breeding out an undesirable trait, say inherent racism (let's call it tribal behavior), and instead breed towards more social and tolerant traits (let's call it collectivism), eventually humans WILL have evolved away from the tribal mentality and become a collective species (like ants). So while you may be correct that we evolved this behavior out of necessity, you are incorrect that we could never get rid of it.

Kind of off topic but speaking about evolution, there are probably many problems that affect us today that evolution will eventually take care of. I imagine that with our high fat content diets, our bodies will develop different ways of utilizing fat with less being stored for later and being able to sustain ourselves on different nutrients. Social stigmas like the OP may breed out social taboos like racism. We'll probably also eventually barely have any hair. Different things. Evolution is funny how it works and keeping a species alive. Of course all this will happen MANY generations from now.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Funny thing about evolution. It's always happening. Even now. So if we, as humans, start breeding out an undesirable trait, say inherent racism (let's call it tribal behavior), and instead breed towards more social and tolerant traits (let's call it collectivism), eventually humans WILL have evolved away from the tribal mentality and become a collective species (like ants). So while you may be correct that we evolved this behavior out of necessity, you are incorrect that we could never get rid of it.

So your great idea is to breed the racism out of people? Wow.....so tell me how is that going to work? What, we castrate anyone who does'nt want to sleep with a black/white girl/guy? How is it going to be determined who is racist? If I'm singing the lyrics to a Easy E song does that count as racist? Or do i have to be black?

Good luck with your eugenics program. I don't see what could possibly go wrong with a selective breeding program for racism.