Hating America

Originally posted by Frosty
Let me get this straight, the middle east hates us because we gave them the technologies capable to pump oil out of their ground and make trillions in return and we defend them when a brutal dictatorship attacks another soveigrn state and then when he has killed hundreds of thousands of his own people, embezled billions of dollars ment to repair his nations infrastructure, and then is consistantly non complient with the US we come to overthrow him and replace him with a democracy and they still hate us?

Let me see, you interfere in their affairs, steal their oil, according to American views a terrorist is a muslim, you are conducting a war on terrorism (war on islam)..errmmm spreading your "American away" in Iraq...

want me to go on?

Originally posted by infinite

Let me see, you interfere in their affairs, steal their oil, according to American views a terrorist is a muslim, you are conducting a war on terrorism (war on islam)..errmmm spreading your "American away" in Iraq...

want me to go on?

Even more examples of how the media is brainwashing our friends overseas... I can't believe anyone would believe this crap. Yes, could you please go on, I'd like to hear more examples of how your media is portraying us.

The truth is finally comming out i see.

[edit on 29-11-2004 by LostSailor]

Originally posted by LostSailor
Even more examples of how the media is brainwashing our friends overseas... I can't believe anyone would believe this crap. Yes, could you please go on, I'd like to hear more examples of how your media is portraying us.

LMFAO!!
Media brainwashing....how??? the only paper in the UK which is sort of Anti-American is the Daily Mirror and i dont read it But whats the point of me trying to have a debate with someone is doped up to their eyeballs on American propgranda. Why did you vote for Bush?? did he brainwash you with religion or did you believe that the country would be attacked if Kerry was elected?? Oh i know, let me guess..the whole "if you dont vote for me, your not American".....

Could it simply be that people are critical of Bush because he's done things worthy of criticism? Why is opinion contrary have to be 'brainwashing'?

And criticism of america doesn't have to be hate, or envy. That's a simplistic view. What if you feel that the USA should be the best that it can be, should stand as an example for all the world, should live up to expectations, do the right thing for the right reasons, struggle for the ideals for which we stand and not settle for an inch less? If you felt that those things were not being done, wouldn't you scream and yell?

I'm screaming and yelling because I'm outraged on a daily basis. My anger comes from love for the US, not hate.

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Frosty
Let me get this straight, the middle east hates us because we gave them the technologies capable to pump oil out of their ground and make trillions in return and we defend them when a brutal dictatorship attacks another soveigrn state and then when he has killed hundreds of thousands of his own people, embezled billions of dollars ment to repair his nations infrastructure, and then is consistantly non complient with the US we come to overthrow him and replace him with a democracy and they still hate us?

Let me see, you interfere in their affairs, steal their oil, according to American views a terrorist is a muslim, you are conducting a war on terrorism (war on islam)..errmmm spreading your "American away" in Iraq...

want me to go on?

Yes, go on, but propoganda only gets so far. No one but you has stated a war against the Muslims is a war against terrorist, whether these terrorist worship Allah or nothing at all has no significance, maybe in their eyes but not the US gov.
The people of the middle east have made a concious decision to pump this oil and sell (not steal) it to the rest of the world, whether businesses choose to interact with these people is entirely a mutaul process on both parts. IF they felt like it they could cease to do so, but the consequences would cause their economy to collapse. The oil they are drilling has increased their standard of living significantly. They owe a lot to oil or else the desert land they inhabit would just be that, desert land. Instead it is a flooding oasis of natural resources.

Yes, we are conducting a war on terrorism in Afghanistan and now recently Iraq, due to the surge in terrorist inhabiting the land. If the American way is not to be supressed by the hand of a brutal dictator, then yes that is what we are doing. We are bringing democracy to a land that has never known the concept.

Let me see, you interfere in their affairs, steal their oil, according to American views a terrorist is a muslim, you are conducting a war on terrorism (war on islam)..errmmm spreading your "American away" in Iraq...

want me to go on?

Every American thinks that a Muslim is terrorist...?

hmm, that is a creepy thing to say. I am American and I dont think that Muslims are terrorists. Anyone can be a terrorist, look at Timothy McVeigh, he was not Muslim, so by your logic every American should believe that ex-military whites are terrorists too.

Get real, any other Americans out there to back up my claim that the US does not view Muslims as a whole as terrorists?

First off... I'd like to thank UkWizard for providing a link that helps the main mission of what I'm trying to say in this thread. That the media of some countries may be a bit biased to the U.S.

www.btinternet.com...

Somehow this thread degenerated into America Bashing... All I wanted to do was ask a simple question... something that really might be worth looking into... Is the media from your country reporting information in an unbiased way? Or is it reporting what the people want to hear?

I for one know better then to believe everything I hear from American media. I actually like AM radio here in the states. I know some are going to rag on me for this, but with AM radio you can and do hear both sides of the story.

This thread was started in hopes people might look a little deeper into whats going on. Maybe you believe we went to Iraq just for the oil... I think that's way to simple an explanation.

Things are more complicated than that.

LMFAO!!
Media brainwashing....how??? the only paper in the UK which is sort of Anti-American is the Daily Mirror and i dont read it But whats the point of me trying to have a debate with someone is doped up to their eyeballs on American propgranda. Why did you vote for Bush?? did he brainwash you with religion or did you believe that the country would be attacked if Kerry was elected?? Oh i know, let me guess..the whole "if you dont vote for me, your not American".....

Dude... If this is what you believe... Where do you get this crap?

And are you 100% sure that the Daily Mirror is the only Anti-American paper?
Ask yourself if the BBC "really" does this.
from BBC's broadcasting guidelines

1. fairness


2. respect for truth


3. due accuracy


4. attachment to fundamental democratic principles


5. not broadcasting own opinions on current affairs or matters of public policy


6. ensure that opposing views are not misrepresented


7. news programmes should be dispassionate, wide ranging and well informed


8. must take account of events as well as arguments


9. should offer viewers and listeners an informed account of issues, enabling them to form their own views


10. audience should not be able to gauge reporter�s personal views


11. research must be thorough, wherever possible- information should be gathered first hand by being there or by talking to those who were


12. be reluctant to rely only on one source


13. if controversial issue � relevant opinions as well as facts may need to be considered


14. if a legally contentious issue � its accuracy must be capable of withstanding scrutiny in a court of law


15. use language fairly


16. not use language inadvertently so as to suggest value judgements, commitment or lack of objectivity

[edit on 29-11-2004 by LostSailor]

Originally posted by Frosty

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Frosty
Let me get this straight, the middle east hates us because we gave them the technologies capable to pump oil out of their ground and make trillions in return and we defend them when a brutal dictatorship attacks another soveigrn state and then when he has killed hundreds of thousands of his own people, embezled billions of dollars ment to repair his nations infrastructure, and then is consistantly non complient with the US we come to overthrow him and replace him with a democracy and they still hate us?

Let me see, you interfere in their affairs, steal their oil, according to American views a terrorist is a muslim, you are conducting a war on terrorism (war on islam)..errmmm spreading your "American away" in Iraq...

want me to go on?

Yes, go on, but propoganda only gets so far. No one but you has stated a war against the Muslims is a war against terrorist, whether these terrorist worship Allah or nothing at all has no significance, maybe in their eyes but not the US gov.
The people of the middle east have made a concious decision to pump this oil and sell (not steal) it to the rest of the world, whether businesses choose to interact with these people is entirely a mutaul process on both parts. IF they felt like it they could cease to do so, but the consequences would cause their economy to collapse. The oil they are drilling has increased their standard of living significantly. They owe a lot to oil or else the desert land they inhabit would just be that, desert land. Instead it is a flooding oasis of natural resources.

Yes, we are conducting a war on terrorism in Afghanistan and now recently Iraq, due to the surge in terrorist inhabiting the land. If the American way is not to be supressed by the hand of a brutal dictator, then yes that is what we are doing. We are bringing democracy to a land that has never known the concept.

Hmmm... Yes, May I ask then... If America has decleared a War against Terrorists that ARN'T Muslims... may I ask why America has still sat on its FAT ASS about the IRA? and other groups that arn't Muslims?

LOL!! Now this I find HILLARIOUS! We pump and SELL other peoples oil, not steal. Ok Ok... So if I went in your house, took your TV and sold it... that WOULDN'T be stealing???

And this "brain washing" from the media? well I ask you this... how come I have heard AMERICANS say "Vote For Bush! He is a Strong Leader and will help us kill the evil muslims who are terrorists!!" ?? Tell me that!

Originally posted by The_Squid

Hmmm... Yes, May I ask then... If America has decleared a War against Terrorists that ARN'T Muslims... may I ask why America has still sat on its FAT ASS about the IRA? and other groups that arn't Muslims?

LOL!! Now this I find HILLARIOUS! We pump and SELL other peoples oil, not steal. Ok Ok... So if I went in your house, took your TV and sold it... that WOULDN'T be stealing???

And this "brain washing" from the media? well I ask you this... how come I have heard AMERICANS say "Vote For Bush! He is a Strong Leader and will help us kill the evil muslims who are terrorists!!" ?? Tell me that!

Did the IRA kill thousands of innocent civilians on US soil? I repeat again... not muslims...terrorists... there is a difference.

You should reread what he said about the oil thing... I don't think you undestand what he was saying.

I've never heard any Americans say that...

Bush is your scapegoat... You may as well be pissing on the American flag everytime you say something hateful about our elected commander in chief.

Common sense ain't so common... Only a few can see the big picture... Your hate is blinding you.

If anyone can find anymore examples on biased media repoerting... please feel free to help me out here.


[edit on 29-11-2004 by LostSailor]

Originally posted by LostSailor


Did the IRA kill thousands of innocent civilians on US soil? I repeat again... not muslims...terrorists... there is a difference.

so drug dealing,murder, rape and bank robbery dont count as terrorism?
so as long as it happens on your soil its terror but anywhere then it aint?

Bush is your scapegoat... You may as well be pissing on the American flag everytime you say something hateful about our elected commander in chief.

so its ok to burn a UN flag? or call france evil? you call the UN and france evil yet its not ok to call america it?
actually the US flag used to stand for somthing. it stood for freedom and liberty BUT now it is currupt and evil. i bet the writers of the constitution would be proud.

Common sense ain't so common... Only a few can see the big picture... Your hate is blinding you.

only a few can see past thier arrogance, you make quotes like this yet dont see what your alllies and enemies feel like.
our hate has nothing to do with this, would you like to see our hate? im sure i could make a thread about it quite happily for you.

*Clap Clap Clap*

I think that Pretty much sums it up, thanks Devilwasp!
Havn't seen you in any of my threads for a while until now

only a few can see past thier arrogance, you make quotes like this yet dont see what your alllies and enemies feel like.

Thats exactly the point I'm trying to make here!!!

Maybe they would feel differently if their media coverage wasn't so biased!!! Do some research on the subject... not just the BBC, but France's media... middle eastern media too.

I'm sorry if it took the deaths of Americans to launch us into the war on terror and I'm sorry if we are targeting the terrorists in the middle east first. But thats just the way it is at the moment. I can't comment on the IRA beccause I honestly don't know enough about it.

Originally posted by The_Squid
*Clap Clap Clap*

I think that Pretty much sums it up, thanks Devilwasp!

Havn't seen you in any of my threads for a while until now

been busy running around with cam cream on shooting at people but im back for a while

Originally posted by LostSailor


Thats exactly the point I'm trying to make here!!!

doesnt sound like it.

Maybe they would feel differently if their media coverage wasn't so biased!!! Do some research on the subject... not just the BBC, but France's media... middle eastern media too.

i dont watch the BBC except for weather.
and since i dont have acess to this i use this on exsperience talking to people and online oh and books.etc
try and imagine what it feels like to have a stranger walk in and blow your father/husband/brother/son etc away because he held a rifle in his hands to defend his home.

I'm sorry if it took the deaths of Americans to launch us into the war on terror and I'm sorry if we are targeting the terrorists in the middle east first. But thats just the way it is at the moment. I can't comment on the IRA beccause I honestly don't know enough about it.

fair enough. no one really is except the NI or their southern "companions" ,the irish.

[edit on 29-11-2004 by devilwasp]

Look.. I'm not trying to rag on any Europeans here... I just want you to take a look at it... There is information about it online... I've only got the post from UKwizard about the BBC atm... When I have more time I'll try and find more about it.

I really think there might be something here... I'm not saying you personally think the way you do about the US beccause of the BBC. But there probably are quite a few who are basing their opiniond from the BBC.

One more thing... These people on or offline you talk to... Where are they getting their information?

The Authors of the books you read... Where are they gettiing their information? What are their backgrounds?

You should ask yourself these questions.

Peace?

[edit on 29-11-2004 by LostSailor]

Originally posted by LostSailor



One more thing... These people on or offline you talk to... Where are they getting their information?

ex service men and serving ones.

The Authors of the books you read... Where are they gettiing their information? What are their backgrounds?

tom clancy , i believe he was an ex captain or somthing but he did advise a few big whigs in DC.
micheal asher, serving soldier.
a few others.
and i am ashamed to say..........chris ryan and andy mcnab.

You should ask yourself these questions.

i do mate, i write stories a bit and think of myself in that role. its not a pretty thing to think of.

Peace?

those dont last too long about here.
how about a ceasefire?

Clancy was a Salesman. Never been in the military iirc. His knowledge however is quite well.

Originally posted by tsuribito
Clancy was a Salesman. Never been in the military iirc. His knowledge however is quite well.

really? wow you learn something every day.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by LostSailor


Did the IRA kill thousands of innocent civilians on US soil? I repeat again... not muslims...terrorists... there is a difference.

so drug dealing,murder, rape and bank robbery dont count as terrorism?
so as long as it happens on your soil its terror but anywhere then it aint?

Bush is your scapegoat... You may as well be pissing on the American flag everytime you say something hateful about our elected commander in chief.

so its ok to burn a UN flag? or call france evil? you call the UN and france evil yet its not ok to call america it?
actually the US flag used to stand for somthing. it stood for freedom and liberty BUT now it is currupt and evil. i bet the writers of the constitution would be proud.

Common sense ain't so common... Only a few can see the big picture... Your hate is blinding you.

only a few can see past thier arrogance, you make quotes like this yet dont see what your alllies and enemies feel like.
our hate has nothing to do with this, would you like to see our hate? im sure i could make a thread about it quite happily for you.

Yep, we haven't done a thing to help fight the IRA.
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.washingtonpost.com...

What he is trying to say is that the US is fighting a war against terrorism in the middle east and in south america and across the rest of the globe against groups that have ties to attacks or planned attacks on US targets.

Who cares about the UN or France for that matter. If the French wish to not support us in the middle east, so be it.

Originally posted by Frosty

Yep, we haven't done a thing to help fight the IRA.
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.washingtonpost.com...

What he is trying to say is that the US is fighting a war against terrorism in the middle east and in south america and across the rest of the globe against groups that have ties to attacks or planned attacks on US targets.

Who cares about the UN or France for that matter. If the French wish to not support us in the middle east, so be it.

Ah..this is nice... I learn something new everyday on ATS... thanks for some backup Frosty

This may just show that since we didn't use "military" force against the IRA we didn't oppose them in anyway... right?

I'm sorry I'm a bit drunk ATM as I was out watching my Green Bay Packers smoke the Rams on Monday night football... PBR me ASAP!!!!

Dublin and London had formally petitioned the U.S. government last fall to make contributions from Americans illegal. The Clinton administration did not act on the request, but the British and Irish have repeatedly reminded the Bush administration that the request was pending.


Secretary of State Colin L. Powell responded today by declaring the Real IRA and several of its support groups to be "foreign terrorist organizations" under the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. The designation extends to what authorities here say is the paramilitary group's fund-raising arm, the 32 County Sovereignty Movement, and a related fund, the Irish Republican Prisoners' Welfare Association.

Please actually read these posts before you reply... I know it's a lot to ask... etc. etc. etc.

[edit on 29-11-2004 by LostSailor]