The "One who does not believe in gods = Communist" conspiracy?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg
Ricky will probably claim the Russian Orthodox Church is not the 'true' church, or some other silliness depending on his/her flavour of Christianity.
...now, United/Reformed Methodists are a different kettle of fish, wonder what Ricky is. lol

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: rickynews
I'm not interested in anything you want to share from the BBC or anywhere else regarding 'militant atheism'.
This topic is about religious zealots claims that lack of belief in gods equates to a socialist/communist tendancy.

I shall ask nicely again, please stay on topic or I shall consider you an annoying troll intent on tarnishing reasoned debate.

The video documentary explains documented world history that has a direct atheism and communism connection. That is the topic, no?

Once again: communists might be atheists but not all atheists are communists. This is a simple piece of logic. Please grasp it.

a reply to: rickynews
Present your argument here through the medium of text if you want to engage me.
I enjoy online 'discussion' forums for the debate inspired by the individuals who take the time to type. I am personally sick of seeing countless youtube clips from people who are too lazy to present their own perspective through reasoned debate.

...oh, it must be true coz it's the BBC!!!! Ridiculous, and lazy. Tell me why you think it's true, debate and engage, don't just chuck vid links at me, I'm not interested in that. It is why I don't do facebook.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: rickynews
Present your argument here through the medium of text if you want to engage me.
I enjoy online 'discussion' forums for the debate inspired by the individuals who take the time to type. I am personally sick of seeing countless youtube clips from people who are too lazy to present their own perspective through reasoned debate.

...oh, it must be true coz it's the BBC!!!! Ridiculous, and lazy. Tell me why you think it's true, debate and engage, don't just chuck vid links at me, I'm not interested in that. It is why I don't do facebook.

Ok, fair enough.

a reply to: rickynews
I actually clicked you a star for that

The father of Communism, Karl Marx said:
"Communism begins from the outset with atheism...

Vladimir Lenin similarly wrote regarding atheism and communism: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."

...In the atheistic and communist Soviet Union, 44 anti religious museums were opened and the largest was the 'The Museum of the History of Religion and Atheism' in Leningrad’s Kazan cathedral. Despite intense effort by the atheistic leaders of the Soviet Union, their efforts were not effective in converting the masses to atheism.

China is a communist country that is also officially atheistic. In 1999, the publication Christian Century reported that "China has persecuted religious believers by means of "harassment, prolonged detention, and incarceration in prison or `reform-through-labor' camps and police closure of places of worship."

In 2003, owners of Bibles in China were sent to prison camps and 125 Chinese churches were closed. China continues to practice religious oppression today. According to Asian Economic News, in 2004 the atheistic and communist government of China had an internal document which directed the Chinese media to promote atheism, instructed internet media to remove user comments that advocate alternative spiritual views, and called for a ban on publications that disseminate religious material out of step with Marxism or atheism. The efforts of China's atheist leaders in promoting atheism, however, is increasing losing its effectiveness and the number of Christians in China is explosively growing.

information source: topix.com

Based upon an objective analysis of world history, one can accurately conclude that Atheism and Communism are intrinsically and fundamentally linked. One feeds off the other, and both need each other to effectively indoctrinate and control the masses. Just as Communism continues its downward spiral into the trash bin of history, so will its close relative surely Atheism follow.

Here are some more direct quotes attributed to the heroes of Atheism, who also are Communists...

"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism.” Vladimir Lenin.

“We must hate. Hatred is the basis of Communism.” Vladimir Lenin

“Hatred is an element of the struggle, a relentless hatred of the enemy…transforming him into an effective, violent and selective, cold blooded killing machine. A people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy.” Che Guevare.

“I wish to avenge myself against the One who rules above.” Karl Marx.

“The hellish vapours rise and fill the brain, till I go mad and my heart is utterly changed. See this sword? The prince of darkness sold it to me.” Karl Marx.

“With disdain I will throw my gauntlet full in the fact of the world and see the collapse of this pygmy giant… Then will I wander god-like and victorious through the ruins of the world. And giving my words an active force, I will feel equal to the Creator.” Karl Marx

“Karl Marx is a monster possessed by ten thousand devils.” Frederick Engels.

Karl Marx “had the devil’s view of the world and the devil’s malignity. Sometimes he seemed to know that he was accomplishing the works of evil.” Robert Payne (a friend of Karl Marx).

“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen. WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.” Velchernaia Moskva (a Marxist newspaper).

The slogan of the Soviets in their early days was: “Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth, and God from Heaven.”

“The World has never before known a godlessness as organised, miltarised and tenaciously malevolent as that preached by Marxism. Within the philosophical system of Marx and Lenin and at the heart of their psychology, HATRED OF GOD is the principle driving force, more fundamental than all their political and economic pretensions.

Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy; it is not a side effect, but the central pivot.
To achieve its diabolical ends, Communism needs to control a population devoid of religious and national feeling, and this entails a destruction of faith and nationhood. Communists proclaim both of these objectives openly, and just as openly put them into practice.” Alexander Solzhenitsyn

informational source: www.frontline.org.za...

How conveniently ignorant it is that most Atheists want to run from the reality of their Atheist-Communist ideology. They seem to want desperately to separate Atheism from Communism, but the truth, reality and facts always get in their way.

As already proven, there is no question of the interconnection between Atheism and Communism.

source: www.realclearscience.com

Even the majority of scientists are not of atheistic beliefs... At least 51% of Scientists polled said they believed in God.

And, even history's most well known scientist, Albert Einstein, wasn't of the extreme Atheist ideology...

Conclusion: Atheism is a Myth - perpetuated by the God-less.

Albert Einstein‘s religious views have been studied extensively. He said he believed in the “pantheistic” God of Baruch Spinoza, but not in a personal god, a belief he criticized. He also called himself an agnostic, while disassociating himself from the label atheist, preferring, he said, “an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.”

source: www.realclearscience.com

source: www.realclearscience.com

edit on 15-5-2014 by rickynews because: (no reason given)

a reply to: rickynews

You are once again descending into the gutter. Please try to wrap your mind about this simple, SIMPLE, fact, which you seem unable to comprehend: just because many communists are atheists, that does not mean that all atheists are communists. Saying that Lenin, Marx etc are 'heroes of atheism' is also totally incorrect. They are heroes of communism. There is a difference.
I am an atheist and my heroes include Lord Wellington, Admiral Nelson, David Lloyd George, Winston Churchill, Jo Grimond, Stephen Hawking and Richard Dawkins. Only a few of which are atheists themselves. You will please note the total lack of any communist names and then draw the correct conclusion.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: rickynews

You are once again descending into the gutter. Please try to wrap your mind about this simple, SIMPLE, fact, which you seem unable to comprehend: just because many communists are atheists, that does not mean that all atheists are communists. Saying that Lenin, Marx etc are 'heroes of atheism' is also totally incorrect. They are heroes of communism. There is a difference.
I am an atheist and my heroes include Lord Wellington, Admiral Nelson, David Lloyd George, Winston Churchill, Jo Grimond, Stephen Hawking and Richard Dawkins. Only a few of which are atheists themselves. You will please note the total lack of any communist names and then draw the correct conclusion.

Not all Atheists are Communists, and you apparently are an exception - yet there is a direct connection in the ideology and the pure numbers of Atheists and Communists. To pretend otherwise is simply non-sense. Just because some do not want to accept this fact and reality, does not change the facts, and the reality.

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: rickynews

You are once again descending into the gutter. Please try to wrap your mind about this simple, SIMPLE, fact, which you seem unable to comprehend: just because many communists are atheists, that does not mean that all atheists are communists. Saying that Lenin, Marx etc are 'heroes of atheism' is also totally incorrect. They are heroes of communism. There is a difference.
I am an atheist and my heroes include Lord Wellington, Admiral Nelson, David Lloyd George, Winston Churchill, Jo Grimond, Stephen Hawking and Richard Dawkins. Only a few of which are atheists themselves. You will please note the total lack of any communist names and then draw the correct conclusion.

Not all Atheists are Communists, and you apparently are an exception - yet there is a direct connection in the ideology and the pure numbers of Atheists and Communists. To pretend otherwise is simply non-sense. Just because some do not want to accept this fact and reality, does not change the facts, and the reality.

No, I'm not an exception, I'm something of the average. I know a number of other atheists and whilst one is a member of the Labour Party that doesn't make him a communist. In fact he's a Blairite, so he's DEFINATELY not a communist. I have to state again that you seem to be spouting nothing but insults about atheists. Are you about to tell me that I'm misguided again?

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: rickynews

You are once again descending into the gutter. Please try to wrap your mind about this simple, SIMPLE, fact, which you seem unable to comprehend: just because many communists are atheists, that does not mean that all atheists are communists. Saying that Lenin, Marx etc are 'heroes of atheism' is also totally incorrect. They are heroes of communism. There is a difference.
I am an atheist and my heroes include Lord Wellington, Admiral Nelson, David Lloyd George, Winston Churchill, Jo Grimond, Stephen Hawking and Richard Dawkins. Only a few of which are atheists themselves. You will please note the total lack of any communist names and then draw the correct conclusion.

Not all Atheists are Communists, and you apparently are an exception - yet there is a direct connection in the ideology and the pure numbers of Atheists and Communists. To pretend otherwise is simply non-sense. Just because some do not want to accept this fact and reality, does not change the facts, and the reality.

No, I'm not an exception, I'm something of the average. I know a number of other atheists and whilst one is a member of the Labour Party that doesn't make him a communist. In fact he's a Blairite, so he's DEFINATELY not a communist. I have to state again that you seem to be spouting nothing but insults about atheists. Are you about to tell me that I'm misguided again?

I am simply commenting about the ideology of Atheism, starting with known Communists who unquestionably also see the direct link between their communist ideology and their atheistic ideology. Atheism, as an ideology, is fair play, and I am commenting about the fore-fathers of Communism, and their adopted Atheistic ideology.

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: rickynews

You are once again descending into the gutter. Please try to wrap your mind about this simple, SIMPLE, fact, which you seem unable to comprehend: just because many communists are atheists, that does not mean that all atheists are communists. Saying that Lenin, Marx etc are 'heroes of atheism' is also totally incorrect. They are heroes of communism. There is a difference.
I am an atheist and my heroes include Lord Wellington, Admiral Nelson, David Lloyd George, Winston Churchill, Jo Grimond, Stephen Hawking and Richard Dawkins. Only a few of which are atheists themselves. You will please note the total lack of any communist names and then draw the correct conclusion.

Not all Atheists are Communists, and you apparently are an exception - yet there is a direct connection in the ideology and the pure numbers of Atheists and Communists. To pretend otherwise is simply non-sense. Just because some do not want to accept this fact and reality, does not change the facts, and the reality.

No, I'm not an exception, I'm something of the average. I know a number of other atheists and whilst one is a member of the Labour Party that doesn't make him a communist. In fact he's a Blairite, so he's DEFINATELY not a communist. I have to state again that you seem to be spouting nothing but insults about atheists. Are you about to tell me that I'm misguided again?

I am simply commenting about the ideology of Atheism, starting with known Communists who unquestionably also see the direct link between their communist ideology and their atheistic ideology. Atheism, as an ideology, is fair play, and I am commenting about the fore-fathers of Communism, and their adopted Atheistic ideology.

Hmmm. You haven't been listening to anything that anyone has been saying on here have you? I wonder why?

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: rickynews

You are once again descending into the gutter. Please try to wrap your mind about this simple, SIMPLE, fact, which you seem unable to comprehend: just because many communists are atheists, that does not mean that all atheists are communists. Saying that Lenin, Marx etc are 'heroes of atheism' is also totally incorrect. They are heroes of communism. There is a difference.
I am an atheist and my heroes include Lord Wellington, Admiral Nelson, David Lloyd George, Winston Churchill, Jo Grimond, Stephen Hawking and Richard Dawkins. Only a few of which are atheists themselves. You will please note the total lack of any communist names and then draw the correct conclusion.

Not all Atheists are Communists, and you apparently are an exception - yet there is a direct connection in the ideology and the pure numbers of Atheists and Communists. To pretend otherwise is simply non-sense. Just because some do not want to accept this fact and reality, does not change the facts, and the reality.

No, I'm not an exception, I'm something of the average. I know a number of other atheists and whilst one is a member of the Labour Party that doesn't make him a communist. In fact he's a Blairite, so he's DEFINATELY not a communist. I have to state again that you seem to be spouting nothing but insults about atheists. Are you about to tell me that I'm misguided again?

I am simply commenting about the ideology of Atheism, starting with known Communists who unquestionably also see the direct link between their communist ideology and their atheistic ideology. Atheism, as an ideology, is fair play, and I am commenting about the fore-fathers of Communism, and their adopted Atheistic ideology.

Hmmm. You haven't been listening to anything that anyone has been saying on here have you? I wonder why?

Perhaps defining both the terms Atheism and Ideology will be helpful…

Definition of Atheism:
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Definition of ideology:
1. the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group.
2. such a body of doctrine, myth, etc., with reference to some political and social plan, as that of fascism, along with the devices for putting it into operation.
3.Philosophy
the study of the nature and origin of ideas.
a system that derives ideas exclusively from sensation.

Source: dictionary.com

a reply to: rickynews

(Heavy sigh) Oh dear. Ok, here's an excellent page about atheism that might enlighten you.

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: grainofsand

Jesse Ventura is a perfect example. He is far from "communist" yet he is 100% atheist.

I think the reason there are many socialist-thinking atheists is because unregulated capitalism has been paraded around and stamped into our consciousness as Jesus's economic guidelines. Many connect "God" and capitalism together yet couldn't explain why they feel that way. It's conditioning.

Could it have something to do with the 'Christian work ethic', somehow people believe in a christian work ethic that tends to make them willing to work hard for the capitalists despite low compensation.
I suppose if one works for jesus and not Morty Moneybags, that's OK.
Their real reward is in heaven and they will put up with the crap here on Earth for now with little complaint.

I keep my religion personal mostly, and not in literal practice. Its very old, fragmented and many people do not know of it let alone understand it. I do acknowledge god though, he is the creator. Second, people today have their own beliefs, and I respect those beliefs. As for what type of government a religion might prefer, I am not sure. I like the Government we have, its not and hasnt ever been perfect but they try to make it work as best as anyone could. Cant ask for much more than that.

Is there any religion you know of you had in mind that points of a certain Government particularly?
(and no I didnt read the whole thread heh)

a reply to: rickynews

Atheism is the rejection of the ideology of a "god". It's a default. If you say to me, this is what god is, or this is what god is like.....I then have the job of accepting what you say as true or not. Atheists reject every description of god and gods that they have been presented with, so far.

Communism is a socioeconomic method, and as I pointed out in your Supreme Court thread, communism was practiced by the Essene sect of Judaism, taught by Jesus and practiced by early Christians. Communism was first applied in religious communities. It's NOT an atheist invention.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: rickynews

Atheism is the rejection of the ideology of a "god". It's a default. If you say to me, this is what god is, or this is what god is like.....I then have the job of accepting what you say as true or not. Atheists reject every description of god and gods that they have been presented with, so far.

Communism is a socioeconomic method, and as I pointed out in your Supreme Court thread, communism was practiced by the Essene sect of Judaism, taught by Jesus and practiced by early Christians. Communism was first applied in religious communities. It's NOT an atheist invention.

IMO, Atheism is in and of itself, the definition of Extreme Narrowism and totally Closed Minded.

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: rickynews

Atheism is the rejection of the ideology of a "god". It's a default. If you say to me, this is what god is, or this is what god is like.....I then have the job of accepting what you say as true or not. Atheists reject every description of god and gods that they have been presented with, so far.

Communism is a socioeconomic method, and as I pointed out in your Supreme Court thread, communism was practiced by the Essene sect of Judaism, taught by Jesus and practiced by early Christians. Communism was first applied in religious communities. It's NOT an atheist invention.

IMO, Atheism is in and of itself, the definition of Extreme Narrowism and totally Closed Minded.

I have no idea how anyone could possibly say this. Atheists are open minded - you have to be in order to throw off religious dogma (which has closed more minds than anything else). Plus looking at science with an open mind tends to make people disbelieve what religion has told them about how the world was created.