Sandy Hook Forensic Evidence

To follow up. Sgt. Cario did, later in the same report, make note of bullet holes and other evidence to correct his earlier observation cited in my post above. His second comment however does not negate his first observation IMO.

In the same report but on a different subject:

As I entered the school, the first thing that caught my attention was two Newtown officers who were to my left. I moved behind them. I believe at least one had a long gun. They were using a corner of the cement walls as cover and looking east down the north corridor. There were two female bodies lying on the floor in the right side of the north corridor. The officers were focused on this hallway and spoke as I stood behind them. We did not make eye contact, and I do not recall much about them. ... The officer that spoke reported that "they are dead" (pointing to the two bodies in the hall), the shooter was in the hallway and "ducked" into a classroom to the left (front), there was a volley of gunfire, and "it's been quiet for about five minutes."

SOURCE: Book 6, 00026724.pdf, p. 2, 2nd par. Interview/Statement of Sgt. Cario, CSP. (This can be accessed at the link titled "HERE" in the last post by six67seven on the 1st page of this thread.)

From this it seems the Newtown officers saw the shooter as he entered classroom 10. What happened after that is well known (i.e., volley of gunfire). I had been under the impression that none of the officers encountered the shooter alive or before all the victims had been slain. I found no mention of the loud final shot referenced in other witness testimony.

Lt. Vanghele's interview/statement, also there in Book 6, file 00002060.pdf, is also worth reading.

A radio interview with the barrister Michael Shrimpton has been posted in this other thread.
He makes several frightening accusations, including one that Germans were involved in hiring Mexican cartel members that carried out the events at Sandy Hook.
Seems crazy but then I remembered reading the DNA on the envelope was matched to a convicted felon....

AP photo of "Nancy Lanza's bedroom":
s27.postimg.org...

Do these photos resonate with you guys? They don't seem like the same place. Is this forensics? Am I missing something? It seems like you wouldn't be able to see the neighbor's house through those woods the way it is in the interior photo. There's only a few trees and then clearly the neighbor's house.

s24.postimg.org...

s15.postimg.org...

It looks like it fits to me if her window is just behind the gabled garage roof. This is taken in wintertime obviously, and the woods aren't thick anyway, so I can believe you would see the neighboring house.

The bedroom itself looks normal to me, except I notice there is no decoration on the walls. That seems to be true throughout the house, but in other areas I figure it may have been because it bothered Adam. But in her own room? Women like to decorate. But IMO we don't need to nitpick this too much since there are serious issues that need resolving.

Active shooter trainer/retired cop Vincent Riccio has stated publicly that Adam Lanza had "a chest wound and a head wound." He said it casually in a public presentation and I couldn't believe my ears. I've written to him about it, and he's said he'll get in touch with me in a few weeks after his schedule has calmed down.

The statements occurs in part 5 of a series he's uploaded to YT, entitled, "Sandy Hook/Active Shooter Presentation."

The reason this statement meant the most to me was that I had just started to feel very strongly, upon many, many months of listening to Newtown Call 7, that the 9:46:54 gunshot was fired by an NPD officer. I say this because the sound is very loud and clear, i.e. closer to Rick Thorne's cellphone. If you recall, Rick Thorne is standing/crouching part way down a hall on the opposite side of the building from the north hall--the north hall is where the affected classrooms are located.

I believe very strongly that Sedensky intended for the 9:46:54 shot to be the final shot--if you read how he describes the final shot (which he's now moved, I believe randomly, to 9:40:03), he says it is distinct from the other shots. This description absolutely applies to the 9:46:54 shot sound; it comes after a few moments of silence, is eerily clear, loud, and quite frankly creepy sounding (sorry, a woman's observation, lol).

But upon reading Sgt. Cario's report as to what was happening at that moment--he has entered the school and found NPD officers crouching around a corner in the lobby, looking down the north hall--now, place that sound in context. This is the sound, I firmly believe, of a shot fired by officers who are relatively near to Rick--they're still in the lobby in fact--and they are aiming down the north hall.

The shots in the distance which precede this shot (all of which are also unacknowledged in the report, but clearly audible on Call 7) I now believe were fired from room 2, where casings were indeed found. This room, being on the corner, also looked out on the playscape--the exact location NPD officers told the incoming Cario a "possible threat" existed, causing Cario to immediately run back out of the building toward the playscape.

In sum, I believe a shooter fired shots from room 2 onto the playscape--that is were Capt. Rios and Manfredonia were at that time, possibly sheltering from just those shots--and then, as officers outside the building converged in the direction of room 2, the shooter ran through the classrooms via the connecting doors. There were allegedly connecting doors between every, single set of rooms in the north hall, except between room 8 and 10. Having run into a wall in room 8, he would have had to exit room 8 into the hallway if he needed to keep moving away from the threat. I believe that at the moment he exited room 8, an NPD officer fired his weapon, striking the shooter in the chest. In fact if you look at the photos of the shooter's clothing, you can indeed see several clear depressions--one in particular--which could easily be the result of a bullet impacting that shirt either through a flak jacket, or hitting the shirt directly which was worn over the flak jacket.

In addition, the shooter was said to have been lying "near the door jamb" of room 10 in some reports, but fully inside the room in others. I won't go into what I think that means, but suffice it to say, there are some clear and logical possibilities.

That shot is fired at 9:46:54; it then, for some reason, takes officers on scene until 9:51:31 to announce, "92--we got one suspect down." This is followed immediately by the same officer yelling, "CLEAR!" and "We have a suspect down." This moment, incidentally, is not accurately transcribed by CSP Det Alison Peters and NPD officer Jeff Silver. They change it, for whatever reason, to "Where? Where is suspect down?" The audio is available for anyone to listen to (as me for an acceptable way to provide the link), and you can decide for yourself.

That's a very long way of saying I think the shooter clearly popped out of room 8, and officers who gave sworn statements saying they were monitoring the north hall at that very moment, shot him in the chest. I do not think that shot was fatal.

Just before this moment, a child survivor from room 8 who has remained in her room the entire time, suddenly starts running out of room 8, being told to go back in, and then running out again yelling that she wants to go home. An NPD officer can be heard yelling, "Get back in the classroom!" only moments before the 9:46:54 shot. It is my feeling that the reason she's finally fleeing room 8, at that very moment, and repeatedly refusing to obey officers who tell her to stay in the room, is that the shooter is in there. Lord knows the shooter may have sent her out to draw fire, for that matter.

I don't know if you noticed the recent drama with the Sandy Hook first responders ceremony hosted by Gov. Malloy; 300 dispatchers and first responders and dispatchers were honored; not one, single Newtown dispatcher was invited, and not one of the first officers on scene (McGowan, Chapman, Kullgren, Penna, Bahamonde, Smith, Vanghele, Rios, Kehoe, Seabrook) was invited. This has prompted an impassioned open letter to Gov. Malloy from a Fairfield County EMT asking why Newtown was not invited; via Schriro, the response was a vague allusion apologizing for "overlooking" anyone. In my strong opinion, this does not wash.

Given the very strong statements by SH parents in the past few months alleging negligence on the part of Newtown Public Schools and NPD, I think we can start to draw uncomfortable conclusions, at least in broad terms, that those two organizations are likely targets of pending suits. The statute of limitations for wrongful death suits in CT is 2 years; we're just over four months out.

Nice writeup! I look to forward to whatever you can add if and when the retired officer gets back to you. I think you're focused on the, or one of the, more critical part(s) of the official story.

That loud shot makes no sense if it was Adam putting the pistol to his head. On the recordings you listened to, assuming you can tell, was the sound picked up on a phone call or over police radio? (I have trouble hearing as much detail as some people seem to so I mostly have left that to others and depended on the transcripts.)

As far as all the classroom doors connecting, I thought it was just two classrooms at a time. I definitely could be wrong, but somewhere I got the impression that the connecting doors were only on the wall that was at the opposite end from the hallway door. Possibly like a back way out if needed for fire escape maybe. And the two classrooms that have their hallway doors close together were not connected by an inside door. The diagrams I've seen of the structure I don't recall being detailed enough to see that. It may be shown somewhere on the archive video that was shot after the event, but I know they keep going to blue screen every time the camera pans so it could be hard to find just the right piece.

All I really know at this point is that overall the evidence tells us the story is not correct or not complete. It will take someone who knows,
maybe your lead and others, to come forward to ever get to the bottom of it.

Almost forgot, but actually mostly just a rhetorical question: why would it need to be covered up if an officer shot the shooter?

Hi Toidiem,

There were connecting doors between room 2 and 4, 4 and 6, 6 and 8, and 10 and 12, according to the final report. These were also called "communicating doors." If you recall, teachers in room 6 heard their connecting door fly open at one point and hit the smartboard table.

As for covering up the shooting of the shooter, several reasons in my mind: limiting liability of responding agencies. In other words, the problem isn't necessarily that the shooter was shot, but *when* he was shot--almost seven minutes after the "final" shot which is (clearly falsely) said to be 9:40:03 a.m. Officers arrived at 9:39; if all the shooting was allegedly over 60 seconds later, the officers can't be held liable for the shooting of any additional victims--they've already been shot. They weren't shot because of police failure to stop the shooter--there was basically no way to expect officers to contain a shooter in under 60 seconds, so any gunshot wounds are not the police's fault for any failure in response technique, response length, etc.

Secondly, I believe that the shot that struck him in the chest and dropped him initially wasn't fatal; if he was wearing a flak best which I believe he likely was (and is missing along with the mask reported by Hammond), then he may only have been stunned. However--he ultimately was described with a fatal head wound.

I believe officer can be heard interrogating him further down the hall directly after the 9:46:54 a.m. shot--you can even hear one officer say, "...involved?" Remember that they're very concerned about Manfredonia, who's outside, as far as being a possible accomplice; they are also convinced there is yet another shooter still in the building (according to Cario).

The shooter ends up in Room 10 with a GSW to the head. Notice CSP's repeated grilling of Chapman in the report--they want very badly to determine whether he entered Room 8 before Room 10. The obvious reason would be his state of mind upon coming back to the shooter. He himself states in his report that he saw the shooter "down" but continued in some fashion to Room 8 (he later changed his story); after being in his own words horrified by what he saw in Room 8, he went to where the rest of his guys were in Room 10. I believe CSP suspects he did so in something of a rage or serious mental distress, as might be expected. Even Chapman says he had "no interest" in providing medical assistance to the dropped shooter (how would you even think of offering assistance to a guy whose injury is clearly fatal? I think Chapman is meshing his first glimpse of the shooter--who at that point had a non-fatal wound--with how he felt when he returned to Room 10).

Chapman also makes an interesting mistake: he claims (later) that it was not Room 8 he entered directly before Room 10, but Room 9--yet he says that in Room 9 he saw "women and children." There were no children in Room 9--Beth Hegarty, sheltering in Room 9, is asked by the 911 dispatcher whether there are children, and she says "No children." However, there were certainly women and children in Room 8. And in an odd twist to an already odd case, Room 8--full of child and staff victims--used to be called Room 9. I believe there is even still a big "9" above the door, as opposed to the green placard displaying "Room 8" to the left of the door.

Note also how Smith, who was crouching with Chapman in the north hall before the 9:46 shot, makes a strong effort to distance himself from any rifle use, stating his (Smith's) M-4 was "stuck in the trunk." No one wants to be associated with a rifle shot in the north hall; in the early version of Chapman's statement, when he said he entered Room 10 directly after Room 8, Chapman says "I put my rifle on safe" before entering Room 10.

TMI, all over the place, and it's extra-damning that Danbury States Atty Stephen Sedensky has removed the 9:46:54 timepoint from several 911 calls, including the phone conversation between Newtown dispatcher Barocsi and CSP dispatcher Loomis.

a reply to: Zephyranth

the fact that that people's stories are changing, should tell anyone even moderately intelligent, that something's up...as in "not quite right"

additionally...why in the hell, when you're dealing with an active shooter incident, still in progress, would you put your rifle on safe, before entering a room? until you're sure the shooter is down, and the threat is no longer present, you wouldn't put your weapon on safe...but then the story changes....i'm not buying any of it..

originally posted by: Soldato231547

*snip*

Zephyranth, if you're still around: So, are you proposing then that there is a coverup because either the police accidentally shot some of the students while in a gunfight with Adam or because when they arrived, the shooter and some of the kids were still alive and they witnessed (or heard) him shooting them but were unable to stop him in time and they fear they will be blamed for not doing enough to save the children?

Edit: Not sure why it's putting my post inside the quote box.

originally posted by: Daedalus
...why in the hell, when you're dealing with an active shooter incident, still in progress, would you put your rifle on safe, before entering a room? until you're sure the shooter is down, and the threat is no longer present, you wouldn't put your weapon on safe...but then the story changes....i'm not buying any of it..

Totally agree.

originally posted by: Charizard
Zephyranth, if you're still around: So, are you proposing then that there is a coverup because either the police accidentally shot some of the students while in a gunfight with Adam or because when they arrived, the shooter and some of the kids were still alive and they witnessed (or heard) him shooting them but were unable to stop him in time and they fear they will be blamed for not doing enough to save the children?

I think all those things are possible, and possible as well is that they had the shooter in cuffs, either not wounded or lightly wounded, and that he then became fatally wounded.

There are also enough gunshots toward the 9:51:31 a.m. moment to support a shoot-out, however, and we can't really know whether there was only one suspect being dealt with.

It does strain credulity to think that after taking only 2.8 minutes to get to the school, they then took another 11.5 to find a dead guy lying in one of only two rooms affected, and for that matter, the only two rooms as far as we know to have their doors open, and on top of that with bodies and gun magazines lying right outside the doors. It would have been pretty obvious which rooms to focus on first in that north hall. But for some reason, the official story has them waiting in the lobby and/or going up and down the north hall for a full five minutes before 'finding' the shooter in Room 10.

The 911 call audio shows multiple gunshots from 9:46 to 9:51; it sounds to me as if one shooter is down for sure at 9:46:54, judging by the way the officers seem to go from "running/chasing/yelling" mode to tense conversation down the hall. But...if they have him, what's with the multiple shots again a few minutes later? Is it another guy? Is it someone trying to stop [Officer X] from taking out his rage on the cuffed shooter? Is it the sound of people staging the suicide (why so many shots then?) Did the cuffed guy, I don't know, play dead and then start running again?

I'd have to go with either 1) they missed with the 9:46:54 shot (less likely) or 2) there was another shooter. Who knows.

A very important question is whether the Room 8 and Room 10 doors were open when police arrived inside the building. It seems clear that Room 8's was, because the Hatcher child was said to have come out into the hall repeatedly to try and get the officers to take her home.

Does anybody remember reading anything about whether fingerprints were found on the gun(at both crime scenes)?

-----------------------

Here's an oddity that hasn't been mentioned yet:

pg10 of 85 (04086)
This is a page indicating a background check into any criminal records on Adam Lanza was made--followed by 17 redacted pages. That's a lot of pages for someone who allegedly had no criminal history!

pg11 of 85 (04104)
This is a page indicating a background check into any criminal records on Ryan Lanza was made--followed by 21 redacted pages. Again, that's a lot of pages for someone who allegedly had no criminal history!

Or are these just repetitive pages on a few traffic tickets?

At the request of a friend I read this and several other threads and most of the linked documents regarding this tragedy. I assisted in profiling the Jon Beney Ramsey and Nicole Brown Simpson cases. I don't see anything here that points to a politically motivated conspiracy beyond possible bungled attempts of small town law enforcement to CYA regarding incompetent handling of crime scenes and evidence. Sandy Hook is a small town and nothing even close to this scope of a crime would have ever been encountered in training beyond simulation. The discrepancies are consistent with human error and attempts to correct or cover up human error. The OP claims to be stating "just the facts" but in line with a true critical analysis, there are no facts here, just reports. The only facts are that many are dead and many different reports were made.
.

Sandy Hook is similar to 911 in that as time goes on, more and more highly irregular facts are uncovered. Facts that are fatal to the Official Story.

I take some measure of relief in the probability that at Sandy Hook NOBODY died. It was an exercise meant to fool the public and thereby advance some sort of gun control agenda.

a reply to: Salander

But these "irregular facts" are not facts at all, but reports. Reported information is not the same as a fact. It is a human being typing information into a database or speaking into a recorder or handwriting it on a notepad while at a chaotic scene. These are reports made by humans capable of making mistakes in judgment. I was an investigative reporter for many years and witnessed many crime scene investigations. Law enforcement officials can be emotional, confused, tired, resentful, and a variety of other emotions that cloud their thinking. My experience has been that what is most apt to be "covered up" in a multiple victim crime scene investigation is human error that, when found, would embarass someone or a whole department. There are only a handful of facts out of Sandy Hook: many died, investigations happened, and many reports were written. That's all you can count on as factual. All else is conjecture.

Since the original reports for the most part are completely redacted (typed summaries are viewable, but not the officers' actual report), even the reports are conjecture.

Contrast with Columbine's 30,000 pages of material, including 7500 pages of juvenile witness testimony with names unredacted--all this largely made publicly available, online, by the tireless efforts of the families themselves.

a reply to: audenine
Nope, those are not the facts my friend. Evidence of a conspiracy is in plain site. I get the feeling you haven't actually looked into this event very closely. You'd like to normalize this event, I can tell. Just look to the coverage by CNN. This was scripted for them. Did you notice the cloud cover run over Newtown that morning? Why wait a year to release reports? What about the drill that was going on at St Rose? It just goes on and on. The DNA evidence, the fabricated photos...It all stinks to high heaven.