Sandy Hook Forensic Evidence

a reply to: SMOKINGGUN2012

and you are the resident expert on Sandy Hook, who just
happened to become a member here at ATS five days
after the Sandy Hook news story.

ok got that.

a reply to: Daedalus

Check your messages I sent you a link to what they are talking about.

a reply to: spirited75

I never claimed to be the resident expert on anything but I do know if you post off topic ESPECIALLY with anything having to suggest this being a hoax you WILL be banned. I was just giving a friendly reminder or informing you had you not been aware.

Oh by the way, has anyone heard from Ryan Lanza lately?

Mistakenly accused of mass murder.

Detained by police.

Vanished into thin air. Or at least I haven't heard a peep out of him in a year and a half.

On the subject of evidence, is there anything about Ryan Lanza's ID in that official report? You know, the ID that was allegedly on Adam, causing the MSM to broadcast for several hours that Ryan was the murderer.

If there's no ID, have they given any other explanation for this initial confusion?

originally posted by: NickDC202



The dead body of a shooter discovered with a self-inflicted gunshot wound and found with the weapons used in the shooting seems to demonstrate that a shooter was at the scene.

I do have to wonder though, of all self-inflicted gunshot wounds, what percentage are to the back of the person's head?

Similarly, of all gunshot wounds to the back of the head, what percentage are self-inflicted?

Lanza's hair on the end of the barrel? Hole in hat consistent with gunshot to lower rear portion of head with bullet exiting front top of head? And the assumption is that he shot himself?

I know the coroner's report says intraoral wound, but I could see the coroner being blackmailed into falsifying that bit of info (and maybe others). That scenario would jibe with his jumpy demeanor in front of the press and maybe (if others were also being blackmailed) his comments that he hoped his staff and the people of Newtown wouldn't "have it come crashing down on their heads later".

"Have it come crashing down"? Have WHAT come crashing down, and why?

Lots of speculation there. Sorry for that.

a reply to: SMOKINGGUN2012

i got your message, and i am familiar with that theory, however, it's[the internet activity part] not supported by fact...the wayback machine clearly shows that the school's site was still operational, and updated all the way into 2012

originally posted by: zazen
I do have to wonder though, of all self-inflicted gunshot wounds, what percentage are to the back of the person's head?

I did some research on this a while back.
Two issues:

1. Bullet entry location
   
2. Exit location
   
   Together of course, these two factors allow for the determination of a trajectory.
   
   Tentatively, I would put the statistical occurrence of a self-inflicted, ‘back of the head’-entry + ‘frontal apex of the head’-exit trajectory as being in region of:
   ≪ 1%
   ≃ a tiny fraction of one percent.
   
   From a German article “Autopsy features relevant for discrimination between suicidal and homicidal gunshot injuries”† I found some statistics which include shot trajectories similar to A. Lanza's.‡
   

   
   
   The typical entrance wound sites in suicides were the temple (36%), mouth (20%), forehead (11%) and left chest (15%) but uncommon entrance wound sites such as the eye, ear, and back of the neck and head were also encountered. In suicidal gunshots to the right temple (n=107), only 6% of the bullet paths were directed downwards and only 4% were directed from back-to-front. In gunshots to the left chest (n=130), bullet paths running right-to-left or parallel occurred frequently in suicides (75%) and infrequently in homicide victims (19%). From 61 suicides who fired the gun inside their mouth, only 1 pointed the gun downwards.
   Consequently, some bullet path directions cannot be considered indicative of suicide: downwards and back-to-front in gunshots to the temple, left-to-right in gunshots to the left chest and downwards in mouth shots. The isolated autopsy findings can only be indicative of suicide or homicide but the combined analysis of several findings can be associated with a high probability.

   
   
    
   
   (†) International Journal of Legal Medicine October 2002, Volume 116, Issue 5, pp 273-278. B. Karger, E. Billeb, E. Koops, and B. Brinkmann
   link to abstract
   
   
   (‡) Bullet trajectory of A. Lanza's suicide shot was upwards, making the statistical occurance very close to a null value.

a reply to: NickDC202
How do you know his corpse was there that day? How do you know anything you posted is verifiable? Oh and who made you thread supervisor?

originally posted by: Bilk22
How do you know his corpse was there that day?

Only the CME H. Wayne Carver II, possibly his close assistants, and those few individuals which actually entered Room #8 of 12 Dickinson Dr. Sandy Hook, CT on December 14, 2012 would/could know that to a certainty.

Upon performing a quick hypothetically conspiratorial Gedankenexperiment, we can see that even that isn't a 100% certainty.

Basically, for the moment, we're stuck using the scientific method on the available evidence (which has been presented to us). So I think the OP was perhaps speaking along those lines so that the conversation doesn't solipsistically devolve into:



But believe me friend, the point of your message wasn't missed … 

a reply to: 3mperorConstantinE

The isolated autopsy findings can only be indicative of suicide or homicide but the combined analysis of several findings can be associated with a high probability.

That's a real zinger right there.
Odds are against Lanza making that suicide shot.
I agree, the hand position is so oddly positioned behind the head to align the pistol on that particular axis - bottom rear to frontal lobe. You need to be double-jointed with long, dangly limbs. An octopus being the most likely culprit.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
That's a real zinger right there.
Odds are against Lanza making that suicide shot.
I agree, the hand position is so oddly positioned behind the head to align the pistol on that particular axis - bottom rear to frontal lobe.

I agree.
That's the place to shoot someone if you want to ensure their death (or at the base of the neck).
There's a reason why it's such an uncommon suicide trajectory … 
I could see someone attempting it with maybe something like a snub nose revolver
—possibly even a small .38 auto, or another ‘pocket pistol’,
… but a Glock 20 would be in the just starting to get awkward range.

I found this video about the town it is quite interesting about the barbers shop being kicked out and a new one coming to town called sshh with a red hand

a reply to: 3mperorConstantinE

I agree that it shouldn't devolve to what these threads usually devolve to. However that poster seems to only want to make assumptions and state them as fact when they fit their belief.

Sorry that irks me to no end. Great thread here OP.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: 3mperorConstantinE

The isolated autopsy findings can only be indicative of suicide or homicide but the combined analysis of several findings can be associated with a high probability.

That's a real zinger right there.
Odds are against Lanza making that suicide shot.
I agree, the hand position is so oddly positioned behind the head to align the pistol on that particular axis - bottom rear to frontal lobe.

Something obvious that I'd like to point out is that the police report and the coroner's report can't BOTH be right about the Lanza gunshot wound. One of them is wrong. My question is, "why?".

If the coroner's report is correct, why does the scene as described by police suggest otherwise? Why is there hair on the end of that barrel if Adam Lanza stuck it in his mouth and pulled the trigger? Why is the bullet hole in the hat consistent with an execution-style shot from behind?

If the police report is correct, and Adam Lanza's hair WAS on the end of that barrel, why in the world would a man in Carver's position misrepresent the manner of death in a case like this one?

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
"...He did however talk about some strange snip with his mom and some military dude..."

Hmm.

An association with the military is a commonality amongst these "Columbine-client" type shooters:
signofthetimes.yuku.com...

articles.courant.com...
"Many of Adam Lanza's possessions, from his personal journals and drawings to a military uniform that he kept in his bedroom, were removed by state police..."

Maybe that's why no one knew where he was for the last three years:

______beforeitsnews/alternative/2013/01/has-adam-lanza-even-been-alive-the-last-3-years-video-2536816.html
Has Adam Lanza Even Been Alive The Last 3 Years? – Video


---------------------------

So there is a good probability many of these whack shooting incidents could be run out of the Pentagon.

a reply to: zazen

I have been waiting for someone to state that in plain ol’ English.
Also, elsewhere in the forensic reports Carver signs off on reports which contradict his own earlier synopsis of A. Lanza perishing from devastating brain injury due to self-inflicted intraoral gunshot wound.

I know that Carver has raised many an eyebrow ever since his public 12/15 press conference, but the man isn't exactly new to the job.†
He's a very experienced forensic pathologist; which just serves to make these reports of his, as well as his absolutely bizarre demeanor at the press conference even more troubling (taking into full account his chosen profession)

If one has any experience in reading ME reports, there's a whole lot of detail which is frankly … missing from the autopsy reports of the SH victims/shooter. So even taking into account Sedensky's generous use of the black Sharpie™, there are parts missing from the 7k pages which were released, or there's some funny business going on…

† Chief Medical Examiner Dr. H. Wayne Carver’s Press Conference in Treadwell Memorial Park, Sandy Hook, CT on Saturday December 15, 2012
Well worth watching (yet) again. The demeanor and expressions of the police seem downright strange (IMHO)


NOTES
Dr. Carver: “I only did SEVEN of the (childrens’) autopsies…” (@05:45)
Dr. Carver —has not done the autopsies of the shooter or his mother yet.

But the report says that Dr. Carver only performed the autopsies of FOUR of the children



~Constantine

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

That's a real zinger right there.
Odds are against Lanza making that suicide shot.
I agree, the hand position is so oddly positioned behind the head to align the pistol on that particular axis - bottom rear to frontal lobe. You need to be double-jointed with long, dangly limbs. An octopus being the most likely culprit.

I agree. What comes to mind is an image of Lanza being forced on his knees and, knowing what is going to happen, looking to the ground in utmost fear of what's going to come next. BLAM! One shot to the back of the neck, going from bottom rear to frontal lobe because he has his head bent down.

I really believe the poor kid was executed on the spot so all blame could be laid on him. Whatever the motives where and whoever killed the other victims is still a mystery to me, but one thing is sure: the contradictions build a case for Lanza not being the shooter at all; just a victim of some very disturbing circumstances.

a reply to: Daedalus

I have also asked several questions to you that went unanswered, does this mean you have "avoided my questions as well" going by your mentality ? I can't address every single question I am asked when you consider how many questions I am being asked.

IF I have got my information wrong about there being more than one camera, then I will admit I the information I used is incorrect, but save your "clusterfark" comments buddy. Has the person who said the footage of Mohammad Atta was from 9/11 admitted to being wrong despite what I said being proven several years ago ? I am being big enough to admit that I may of got one section of my point of view wrong. But what about the other sections that I mentioned, you know, the actor turning on the waterworks which goes against every moral reaction from a genuinely grieving parent.
The men fleeing the scene and one put in a front seat of a police car. The inconsistent responses given by the authorities in regards to the true identity of this guy.
Victims family members having mortgage payments made, yet no class action lawsuits despite suffering the greatest loss of all, their children.

But I find it a bit rich for you to take the tone with me that you take while then admitting yourself "there are ELEMENTS of a false-flag visible throughout this case", if it wasn't a false-flag then there wouldn't be any ELEMENTS, would there ?
The ELEMENTS are what shows it IS a false-flag. The inconsistencies in the story from the officials only adds further weight to this. If it was a clear cut case of Adam Lanza walking into that school [while avoiding the ONE camera] then why are these actors posing as parents ? Why are there men running from the scene and having no legitimate reason for being at the school ? Why was one of these men caught and released without incident ? Who shot from OUTSIDE the window if the ballistic testing is true ? Why do these "crazy shooters" always seem to disappear off the grid before the shooting ? There are MANY, MANY other inconsistencies that I haven't even addressed yet.
Now compare those questions to the official story [the story by the officials], and then tell me that it was Adam Lanza acting as a lone gunmen. If we both know it makes no sense, then who did the shooting ? And THAT would make it a false-flag attack. What was the main thing the Government pushed for after this shooting....... new gun control laws. Have you looked into the Port Arthur shooting as I suggested, or am I expected to answer all of your questions and requests, yet you can't even look at one request from me. The day Americans allow their guns to be handed in, is the same day that you see why they did all the other false-flags and you'll experience first hand exactly what all those new laws were really for.

Why are there so many inconsistencies if it was just a case Adam Lanza walking into a school and opening fire ? This is all I have been asking all along. But if it was Adam Lanza, then who left their DNA on that envelope to the Sandyhook children ?

a reply to: NickDC202

As I said in my post above, the information you presented does prove my original stance wrong. I based that stance on information I had seen, and seemed credible to me at the time. I am happy to admit I was wrong on this ONE discussion point.
But I don't agree with your stance about starting another thread in regards to the mortgages. It just further shows the strange behaviour displayed in this case. Many others have made comments not regarding to forensics, yet you only take issue with me. Is this getting personal to you or am I just in your target sights ?

originally posted by: RationalDespair

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

That's a real zinger right there.
Odds are against Lanza making that suicide shot.
I agree, the hand position is so oddly positioned behind the head to align the pistol on that particular axis - bottom rear to frontal lobe. You need to be double-jointed with long, dangly limbs. An octopus being the most likely culprit.

I agree. What comes to mind is an image of Lanza being forced on his knees and, knowing what is going to happen, looking to the ground in utmost fear of what's going to come next. BLAM! One shot to the back of the neck, going from bottom rear to frontal lobe because he has his head bent down.

I really believe the poor kid was executed on the spot so all blame could be laid on him. Whatever the motives where and whoever killed the other victims is still a mystery to me, but one thing is sure: the contradictions build a case for Lanza not being the shooter at all; just a victim of some very disturbing circumstances.

Hmmmmm, I wonder where all these shooters disappear to when they go "off grid" then come back on grid and open fire ?
Why does the most recent pics or footage of these "shooters" always seem to look like they are in a trance like state. Look at the official pic used for Adam Lanza. A lifeless, soulless, gaunt look about him. And what look do mind control victims usually have ?
"Off the grid" is code for "off to get programming". James Holmes went "off the grid" before the Aurora shooting. Martin Bryant went "off the grid" before the Port Arthur shooting, and Adam Lanza went "off the grid" before the Sandyhook shooting. But hey what would we know, we don't have the forensics to back it up ???