Benghazi: The American People Want The Truth

a reply to: Flatfish

We're all entitled to our own set of opinions. We aren't entitled to our own set of facts. Lets keep to the facts as we know they existed.

If you can produce supporting evidence for claims otherwise, I'm all ears. After the literal hours upon hours I have spent reading the background, source documents and testimony, I'm entirely confident and can support everything I say on this issue.

Benghazi that more than likely, was a CIA outpost operating under the cover or disguise of a diplomatic mission or consulate.

No, it most definitely was not CIA. The source documents linked earlier show not only who in State negotiated and made the lease, but how much they were paying from State funds and which buildings, specifically, State was leasing (at $70,000 per month). The CIA Annex a little over a kilometer away was very different in layout and nature. It was also laid out with actual defense in mind, as I'd expect CIA to handle their own facility. The State compound was laid out like victims waiting to get killed...which is precisely how it played out in the end. The photos and documents show this, IMO.

While I'll agree that it's not foolproof, few things seldom are. No different than the security around the White House, while it usually works pretty damned good, it's not foolproof and every once in a while some nut-job is successful at crashing a plane on the lawn or taking shots at the windows, etc...

Security is great when it exists. There was virtually no security to speak of at the United States Consulate Compound in Benghazi. That is one of the MAIN issues here. This was the subject of specific and urgent requests documented in original documents at least 4 times. The last one being in August of 2012, and less than a month before Stevens would be killed for a lack of what he was directly requesting himself.

The actual security assigned to the American facility was comprised of Libyan Militia contracted for it. TWO of those SAME Militia members and people who had been guarding the compound personally bombed it in April of 2012. That is in ADDITION to the bombing that blew out the side wall of this same facility, as witnessed and not interfered with by these same militia members. Those are the "security" Ambassador Stevens was told would be sufficient and they would have to rely on.

We saw how that worked out for them. As the dead staffer texted, one of their OWN guard detail was among the people attacking the facility. THAT needs run down and confirmed or established as false, one way or another. I never have seen where it was. Have you?

Then we get to the testimony from 2013 I linked earlier from the 2nd in command to State Department operations in Libya and the Regional Security Officer in charge of Libya on Sept 11. They both had damning things to say about response, refusal of support assets and the inability to respond as needed on the night this happened.


So, it amazes me at the determination some show that this whole thing should vanish, be put down and simply not talked about. The ridicule of any who would question it literally started inside the FIRST WEEK after the compound was over-run and destroyed. It's gone on since...while we've heard from only a handful who were actually present in Libya or support roles elsewhere in the region that night.


The ones who HAVE come, in some cases, report direct and ongoing efforts to intimidate them and keep them from open cooperation with investigators. Now, these aren't claims made in a tabloid. These claims are made while under Oath in sworn testimony. If they are lies....pursue it as such. A crime has been committed. If they are not lies, then pursue them. A crime has been committed.

Either way, neither has been investigated to anything like what anyone should call their satisfaction of knowing the truth on witness intimidation or obstruction surrounding this case.


In fact, very little if anything here has been pursued to the ends of where truth leads. Like so much else, it's been pursued...to a point, as if to say later "Well, we DID try!". Umm.. There is a LONG way to go before we've heard what happened out there and why it happened.

My position, personally, has always been and will continue to be that those who have something to say...EVERYONE who has something to say, be heard from.(Over 20 people were inside the consulate during the attack and rescued....20 sets of testimony I've not heard yet..) Until then, it's not over, and can never be with the questions and unusual circumstances that surround and define this one.


Comparing this to other things makes absolutely no difference to the importance of this for what isn't making sense, what doesn't work for "standard" anything in how this was all handled and how the BAD decisions of the State Department and...BAD decisions all through the night this ended...led to the tragedy.....as opposed, say, to many other attacks which came against fully defended Embassies by surprise, and where blame to the Government itself doesn't even enter into it.

Many factors make THIS incident stand out...and the original documents, photos and testimony shared in the thread should explain that well, at least as to why questions exist, for those looking to understand, IMO.

a reply to: MOMof3

We are not a democracy. Every decision is from and for the Oligarchy. And they are using this story for their own benefit. Ambassadors getting killed in the line of service is nothing new.

There were exactly FIVE Ambassadors killed in the line of duty by hostile action before Stevens was murdered. 7 total, in the history of the State Department, if you count 2 more that died from plane crashes. The last one, before Stevens to die of hostile action was 1979.

Actually...it IS something new, or at least, extremely rare for the numbers involved. The names and dates are posted here for reference.

a reply to: rickynews


When I read the headline this clip came to mind .




Thats the administrations answer .

a reply to: MOMof3

They are pushing the wrong people in order to succeed or the 'Oligarchy wants a civil war. None of these people have the honor of a guy like North who took the bullet for any flak an stopped any further inquires as to it being his fault.Yes we all KNEW it was BS but legally it worked. This POTUS is acting in a threatening ,self serving ONLY ,manor to my culture and I oppose his social efforts as control efforts. Nothing I have read makes any other sense.I also am aware of the backlash from the Gays,"minorites" and all the other groups who have been traditionally alienated by the reigning corporate right I don't like them EITHER.
I am a patriot, Independent,Klingon. I actually wouldn't take ANY of this seriously at all because I don't like popular culture and never really have,but they fail to leave me alone and even call me names and threaten me because I went to war.SOME idiots would see such as me minimized by way of lesser intellect or some other right wing mold.
I want a polite America running smoothly and AWAY from me.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

If the events of violence were evident before the Video, then why wasn't the Ambassador at the Embassy instead of a safe house. No none died at the Embassy. He made a bad judgment and got killed for it.

a reply to: MOMof3


I see... So now the blame for the whole thing is on Stevens? That's convenient, since he's dead and can't explain anything. His 2nd in command was Gregory Hicks. See testimony linked earlier for how he explained things.

originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness
a reply to: rickynews


When I read the headline this clip came to mind .

Thats the administrations answer .

Awesome video post. Does life imitate art? or does art imitate life? I suspect it works both ways sometimes...

You really know your facts and did your research Flatfish. Nice work and thank you for posting it.

Facts are what lead to the Truth.

a reply to: rickynews

Stupid, stupid , stupid. This has been investigated a number of times without finding anything. It is totally a Republican/Fox News political ploy. The slime bag GOP is running out of ammo so now they want to rehash this crap.

Ya and Obama is a Muslim communist born in Kenya. What a joke. The republicans need to start representing the people in stead of big money, then they wouldn't have to resort to such lame tactics to distract us.

originally posted by: fripw
a reply to: rickynews

Stupid, stupid , stupid. This has been investigated a number of times without finding anything. It is totally a Republican/Fox News political ploy. The slime bag GOP is running out of ammo so now they want to rehash this crap.

Ya and Obama is a Muslim communist born in Kenya. What a joke. The republicans need to start representing the people in stead of big money, then they wouldn't have to resort to such lame tactics to distract us.

Try telling the families of the Americans killed that it's "stupid" to find out what happened. Try telling the other brave Americans throughout the globe working abroad at our Embassies and Consulates that concerns for their safety also is "stupid".

What is stupid is burying one's head in the sand and pretending that the facts and truth no longer matter.

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: fripw
a reply to: rickynews

Stupid, stupid , stupid. This has been investigated a number of times without finding anything. It is totally a Republican/Fox News political ploy. The slime bag GOP is running out of ammo so now they want to rehash this crap.

Ya and Obama is a Muslim communist born in Kenya. What a joke. The republicans need to start representing the people in stead of big money, then they wouldn't have to resort to such lame tactics to distract us.

Try telling the families of the Americans killed that it's "stupid" to find out what happened. Try telling the other brave Americans throughout the globe working abroad at our Embassies and Consulates that concerns for their safety also is "stupid".

What is stupid is burying one's head in the sand and pretending that the facts and truth no longer matter.

But it's already been investigated. We already know what happened. Having yet another Republican-led witch hunt is a waste of time and money. Is this the only talking point that the Republicans have these days? Is this it? Is this the only thing that they can lay down before the country and point to and then say "Yes, we are still relevant and this is why."? Their efforts at talking down the ACA have failed - they can't even suggest an alternative to the ACA in fact - the US economy is still growing, the unemployment rate is coming down, they're too scared to look at immigration reform in any meaningful way - so this is all they have? This is it???

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
No, it most definitely was not CIA. The source documents linked earlier show not only who in State negotiated and made the lease, but how much they were paying from State funds and which buildings, specifically, State was leasing (at $70,000 per month). The CIA Annex a little over a kilometer away was very different in layout and nature. It was also laid out with actual defense in mind, as I'd expect CIA to handle their own facility. The State compound was laid out like victims waiting to get killed...which is precisely how it played out in the end. The photos and documents show this, IMO.

If you're willing to state that "it most definitely was not CIA," based entirely on the fact that public lease agreements point to the State dept., I am almost at a loss for words.

Do you really think that the CIA would leave a paper trail leading straight back to themselves? Furthermore, if the CIA were going to orchestrate covert operations in Libya, do you think they would do it from a known CIA facility that more than likely would have a russian and/or chinese satellite parked directly overhead? On top of that, why did Ambassador Stevens feel so inclined to see that certain documents got shredded that he lost his life in the process of doing so?

I can't say for sure that it was a CIA outpost, but then neither can you state that "it most definitely was not." The one thing I can say for sure it that it was no ordinary diplomatic consulate, something else was going on there and I doubt we'll ever know the whole truth, at least not in our lifetimes.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
Security is great when it exists. There was virtually no security to speak of at the United States Consulate Compound in Benghazi. That is one of the MAIN issues here. This was the subject of specific and urgent requests documented in original documents at least 4 times. The last one being in August of 2012, and less than a month before Stevens would be killed for a lack of what he was directly requesting himself.

The actual security assigned to the American facility was comprised of Libyan Militia contracted for it. TWO of those SAME Militia members and people who had been guarding the compound personally bombed it in April of 2012. That is in ADDITION to the bombing that blew out the side wall of this same facility, as witnessed and not interfered with by these same militia members. Those are the "security" Ambassador Stevens was told would be sufficient and they would have to rely on.

We saw how that worked out for them. As the dead staffer texted, one of their OWN guard detail was among the people attacking the facility. THAT needs run down and confirmed or established as false, one way or another. I never have seen where it was. Have you?

Then we get to the testimony from 2013 I linked earlier from the 2nd in command to State Department operations in Libya and the Regional Security Officer in charge of Libya on Sept 11. They both had damning things to say about response, refusal of support assets and the inability to respond as needed on the night this happened.

So, it amazes me at the determination some show that this whole thing should vanish, be put down and simply not talked about. The ridicule of any who would question it literally started inside the FIRST WEEK after the compound was over-run and destroyed. It's gone on since...while we've heard from only a handful who were actually present in Libya or support roles elsewhere in the region that night.

Look, there have been 8 separate hearings/investigations, (5 in the House, 2 in the Senate and 1 by the Accountability Review Board) which have produced over 25,000 pages of documentation, (10 times as many pages as are contained in the ACA) and I seriously doubt that anything new will come from yet another special committee conducting yet another hearing/investigation.

To tell you the truth, I fully expect to hear speaker Boehner announce any day now that "they should start over, with a clean sheet of paper."

If the GOP in the House was really interested in making sure we did everything possible to prevent future events like this one, (which IMO, should be their top priority) they would be hard at work implementing the recommendations made by the the Accountability Review Board, instead of constantly looking for more ways to cut State Dept. funding while they continue to waste more time and money on another hearing/investigation.

In light of the recent success of the ACA, the total collapse of the Bundy ranch debacle and being desperate to find a new "cause," this is just the most recent attempt by the House GOP to distract their base and attack Hillary prior to the upcoming elections while simultaneously using the issue as a fundraising tool and how pathetic is that?

a reply to: Flatfish

Okay, I will grant you this. The CIA May have covertly used an exclusive State facility. They 'may' also have had Gadaffi on payroll and he 'may' be in the Lincoln bedroom as we speak. None of those assumptions or guesses have any more support, which I am aware of, than any other. Straight question. Do you have supported basis for suggesting the State facility was CIA?

You ask if the CIA would operate where we'd know, as if to suggest that is silly. In fact, that is exactly what they were doing in Benghazi with a CIA station their own people testified the locals knew about.

We absolutely disagree on how many investigatory efforts have proceeded without interference and to a conclusion.

We'll see what the future holds and whether the select committee gets to hearing from a good # of people who were there or involved directly and I haven't read a word from.

There is also the testimony of Hicks and Nordstrom. If they lied, they committed crimes. If they didn't, then others did. Either way, and if NOTHING else, that represents unfinished business that no amount of
'Nothing to see here' can make right.

A good segment of this nation's population want to know what happened and why. That is why it will not be dropped in public discussion. It's simply not over.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
-- snip --
But it's already been investigated. We already know what happened.
-- snip --

You say that with such confidence... Has it not crossed your mind, even once, that your assertion is as foolish as saying, "My Husband/Wife tells me EVERYTHING!"???? If He/She doesn't, you'll never know.

originally posted by: CornShucker

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
-- snip --
But it's already been investigated. We already know what happened.
-- snip --

You say that with such confidence... Has it not crossed your mind, even once, that your assertion is as foolish as saying, "My Husband/Wife tells me EVERYTHING!"???? If He/She doesn't, you'll never know.

Well, of course we'll never know everything about it, because that's going to be impossible. You can never know everything about anything. But after umpteen investigations by the Republicans, the State Department, the New York Times and Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all, there's no scandal. Obama did not kill them, the ghost of Osama bin Laden did not kill them, Hillary Clinton did not kill them... where do I end this list?!?

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
Well, of course we'll never know everything about it, because that's going to be impossible. You can never know everything about anything. But after umpteen investigations by the Republicans, the State Department, the New York Times and Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all, there's no scandal. Obama did not kill them, the ghost of Osama bin Laden did not kill them, Hillary Clinton did not kill them... where do I end this list?!?

I guess we'll find out soon enough... Most of the folks I know personally that wouldn't shut up about politics just one president ago (I gave up pointing out that I'd begun complaining before the first GWB campaign was official, they intended to keep harping whether I wanted to hear it or not) fall into just two clearly defined groups:

#1. The group that still go wild-eyed and spout the official slogans and believe that somehow the current resident of the WH can do NO wrong.

#2. The people who complain of how politics just depresses them too much to talk about and want to be left alone.

For good reason there is an atmosphere of anxiety and paranoia in the air lately.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: fripw
a reply to: rickynews

Stupid, stupid , stupid. This has been investigated a number of times without finding anything. It is totally a Republican/Fox News political ploy. The slime bag GOP is running out of ammo so now they want to rehash this crap.

Ya and Obama is a Muslim communist born in Kenya. What a joke. The republicans need to start representing the people in stead of big money, then they wouldn't have to resort to such lame tactics to distract us.

Try telling the families of the Americans killed that it's "stupid" to find out what happened. Try telling the other brave Americans throughout the globe working abroad at our Embassies and Consulates that concerns for their safety also is "stupid".

What is stupid is burying one's head in the sand and pretending that the facts and truth no longer matter.

But it's already been investigated. We already know what happened. Having yet another Republican-led witch hunt is a waste of time and money. Is this the only talking point that the Republicans have these days? Is this it? Is this the only thing that they can lay down before the country and point to and then say "Yes, we are still relevant and this is why."? Their efforts at talking down the ACA have failed - they can't even suggest an alternative to the ACA in fact - the US economy is still growing, the unemployment rate is coming down, they're too scared to look at immigration reform in any meaningful way - so this is all they have? This is it???

This has nothing to do with Republicans or talking points. This has everything to do with whether the American People were intentionally given a false narrative and story, just before a Presidential Election, and when those in power clearly knew What went down, When it went down, How it went down, and Who brought it down onto the American Embassy in Benghazi - and then told the American people something very different. It's amazing how some people seemingly lose their ability to be objective, and who seem to put political party ahead of country. It makes no difference what political party you belong to, or are aligned with. What matters is whether the American People have been told the truth. Refusing to turn over relevant documents, and then only turning them over due to a Freedom of Information Act and a Federal Court Order, and then finding out there were contradictions and additional details not otherwise provided or given in testimony in said documents / emails - is the reason that there are many suspicions and lingering questions. The number of hearings makes no difference. Getting to the truth and the facts is all that matters, regardless how long it takes or who may be inconvenienced by a thorough and comprehensive investigation and discovery. Until that happens, as much as some may wish..., this matter of Benghazi is not going to go away.

a reply to: rickynews

If the American people were given a false story, it's possible that it was done so with the intention of using a partial truth at a later date to distract them from something else.

I think this happens with most of what any of us, anywhere are told.

The fact remains that many of the American people who are up in arms over this issue, simply did not give a toss when it actually happened and therefore are fair game to mock.

originally posted by: UnBreakable
Sure, I want the truth about Benghazi that resulted in the death of four of our people. I also wait for the truth about Iraq and the WMDs that were a pretext to war that resulted in the deaths of 4,500 of our troops, 100,000 civilian casualties and why it has cost $4 trillion after we wer5e told it would ony cost $200 billion. Both sides owe us the truth.

you had your chance.

and that has nothing to do with the Canaanites.