Odessa slaughter: How vicious mob burnt anti-govt activists alive

a reply to: Reinmax There is video evidence of little teenage girls, preparing molotovs for the ones in the front line. There is video evidence of youngsters hacking stones to get missiles. There is video evidence of old men carrying stones to the front line and there is video evidence of older women coming with a broomstick. All the people were upset.

It is hard and bad how it turned out. But please shut up telling me that all those kids and old people are part of the fascist side. Everybody was shocked by what happened before and decided to fight it.
It probably hit the wrong people - as it always does in such situations - but they were not orcheastrated Nazis. They all wanted to help to fight the possibility to get taken by Russia.

A Journo asked the girls on the street how old they were. They were 14. Dugh!

a reply to: Siddharta

I never said they were all Nazi's or even Neo-Nazi's. They are not even all fighting for the same reason. Even on the Pro-Federation side they are not all for joining Russia but for more autonomy. The Truth is that Pro-Kiev supporters threw Molotovs at the building that Pro-federation people were taking shelter after being attacked and now 46~ are dead, many burnt to death.

You can tell me to shut up if you wish, you can tell the media to shut up if you wish but you cannot force people not to discuss. If those girls are making molotovs... why are they making them? Did they make them of free will? Or did someone offer them lollies and hello kitty dolls if they only make these nice "drinks" that just happened to be Molotov cocktails.

Each one of those 46 dead will have familes who were probably sitting on the fence and not taking sides. After this I am sure they will now be doing some serious thinking. Those that live by the sword usually die by it.

a reply to: Reinmax

There is video evidence of pro kiev right wing people making molotovs and throwing them at the building.

And I have never denied that fact.

a reply to: Reinmax Okay, I see, you are able to differentiate between these and those.
It is sometimes a problem in such discussions.

Sometimes people forget that they talk about people, but you did not. So I appreciate your answer and understand your point of view right now.

Let's remind each other, if we think the other one streched his own views too much.

a reply to: Siddharta

I'm a journalist with several old colleagues reporting from over there since 2007 who I'm in contact with on a daily basis. I've been covering conflicts since 97 so have a good grasp of which reporters are trustworthy, which aren't and when press statements are hiding the truth. I've also written extensively on the rise of neo-nazism in Europe for a few years so am familiar with how the splinter maidan neonazis and russian neo-nazis pseudonyms.

The cousin link is irrelevant. I've never met her as my Grandfather was the engineer Stephen P. Tymochenko who was exilled from what was the USSR for trying to overthrow the Russian oligarchy.


I've no reliable sources for what led up to the attack on the building but was watching the live broadcast on BBC at the time (the reporter was no more than 10m from the entrance, feet away from the police and protester battles which showed how chaotic it all was.

So sad to see the massacre in Odessa and Ukraine in general.. What kind of people Strangle a Pregnant Lady with a phone wire than share and boast that picture all over the internet.

All this talk of "Pro-Russian" and "Pro-Kiev" sides makes a lot of people look really stupid, do you even vaguely grasp what has happened there, the original Maidan camp in Kiev no longer supports the Coup Junta so there's that assumption out the wind0w .

www.verkkomedia.org...

National Guard and Right Sector/Pravy Sector look to be doing all the dirty work, the videos of football hooligans/Ultras (as they are Known in all of EU) and Police with matching armbands and being coordinated by police commanders leaves little to the imagination and a lot of blind ignorance for people to carry on believing this constant state of conjecture by the Main stream media outlets (even RT to an extent) by purposefully not clearly presenting what information they have available to them.

I have friends in Ukraine near Odessa, they just heard reports on the local news that 160 bodies have been found in the basement of the trade union building, Killed by firearms and zarublennoy axes. www.facebook.com...

The truth is, these are just normal people protesting in the East of Ukraine and they are being killed like dogs by Right-Wing fascists so that the Coup Junta get's to stay in power. I fear WW3 is around the corner. Will be funny when normal americans realise they are the bad guys Lol I figured it out along time ago when we carried on killing innocent people, repeatedly..whilst pretending others where the real threat...How many countries have Russia invaded and/or Bombed since WW2 again? Oh wait...


Warning Graphic Content.

You judge by these pictures what happened.

[*snip*]

a reply to: cosmic66

Good post Cosmic. History is written by the victor to justify the means.

and the Lesson we learn from history is that, people do not learn from history

originally posted by: Reinmax
a reply to: cosmic66

Good post Cosmic. History is written by the victor to justify the means.

and the Lesson we learn from history is that, people do not learn from history

Which is why so many people cannot see the clear parallels between Putin and Hitler.

a reply to: DJW001

You mean Kristallnacht and Odessa massacre?

www.facebook.com...


"Odesa. This will not be shown on Russian TV channels. Because Ukrainians are not people, they are beasts, sadists, and Banderites. That is what you are supposed to think."

[Ukrainian residents in Odesa carry scaffold and help pro-Russian extremists trapped by flames on upper floor of burning House of Trade Unions building get out alive.]

www.facebook.com...

Hence the need for an independent investigation.

originally posted by: Siddharta

originally posted by: Vovin
Another point to this is that the authorities have barred families and journalists from seeing the bodies, and many people feel like they are covering up the facts.

Ah no, that is not quiet true. Where do all those photos from inside come from? I followed Journos on Twitter, when they were allowed to go in. And they made photos as well. Then they reported that the people were let in. I had my problems with that, because you don't let trample a lot of people on a crime ground deleting all the traces.

Today the chief of the police excused this decision, saying exactly what I had thought: Many traces were destructed. But he said, he could not do it otherwise, because people demanded access.

So your statement can only refer to the few rooms they had sealed. This is reasonable at first. Let's see, what they say after some more research.

I thought that it was made pretty clear by the videos and photos of the bodies that they were taken by pro-Kiev rioters. They were in the building the whole time, from the start of the firebombing. They were posting the photos and videos on their websites.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

www.facebook.com...


"Odesa. This will not be shown on Russian TV channels. Because Ukrainians are not people, they are beasts, sadists, and Banderites. That is what you are supposed to think."

[Ukrainian residents in Odesa carry scaffold and help pro-Russian extremists trapped by flames on upper floor of burning House of Trade Unions building get out alive.]

www.facebook.com...

Hence the need for an independent investigation.

Yes an independent investigation is needed, not by Kiev, Moscow, Washington or any European counterpart, these sides have too much to gain. There is plenty of Facebook posts contradicting these accounts also, you know how reliable Facebook is as a source, you have called it out yourself in the past.

a reply to: sosobad

Finally we agree on something. Have a star.

a reply to: sosobad

I know.. I didn't say the pictures were fact.

Just the possibility they might be real.

originally posted by: Siddharta
a reply to: Vovin They are interim. Is that biased now, because they are fascists in your view?
As somebody said: If Russia wants a legitimate government in Ukraine, why are they doing everything to hinder it? Same question to you: If you want a legitimate government, why are you not supporting everything that May elections come true?

This could be a good solution. Especially since a referendum is scheduled for the same day.

What worries me is that food and gas are out already in the east. Hard to go through this for more than two weeks.

Interim government? Bullsh*t. It's called a coup de tat. I'm not interested in sprinkling some nice sounding liberal terms like some whacked out hippy planting flowers in the barrels of smoking rifles.

An interim government is when other parties vote out the party running the government and form a coalition until a new election can be held.

An interim government is not the result of fascists rioting on the streets, who then move into the parliament, forcibly push out officials who they don't like, then vote themselves into power- only to totally fracture the entire country and marginalize non-Ukrainian nationalists, and try to force submission to their ideology with military force against their own population.

That's called a junta. Not "interim government". You think a bloody worthless vote is going to be impartial to the peoples' will at this point? Fascists don't care about votes. And fascists tend to kill people with different opinions, just like they did in Odessa, and are doing in east Ukraine.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

Finally we agree on something. Have a star.

Have one back, the sad fact in all this back and forth is that people are dead and died in some of the most horrific ways posdible, this needs to be investigated thoroughly and whoever responsible held to account. Those that died were people's sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, husbands and wives, we (and I know I am guilty of it myself) all seem to forget that when we are arguing about the stupid stuff.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: Reinmax
a reply to: cosmic66

Good post Cosmic. History is written by the victor to justify the means.

and the Lesson we learn from history is that, people do not learn from history

Which is why so many people cannot see the clear parallels between Putin and Hitler.

And the USA and Britain both backed Hitler. They backing Putin too?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: sosobad

I know.. I didn't say the pictures were fact.

Just the possibility they might be real.

I know, I wasn't having a go, I agree that this needs an independent investigation.

a reply to: Vovin

Actually this has been explained to you already and its just your opinion alone. It wasnt a coup. the president was voted out by the previosly approved(by RUSSIA itselfin 2012)government. Then according to their constitution they scheduled elections to reset the entire government. If you want to keep power forever you do not do that do you?

Also a junta is a military take over which at the time was not the military tossing out the president. he left on his own to avoid prosecution for crimes against ukraine that he was being investigated for prior as well.

SO no totally your biased opinion and not fact. its been debunked.

a reply to: yuppa

Please understand, that if something is written down in any country's constitution, it has to be followed for having legitimacy-

A final vote to convict may only come after receipt of a judgment from the Constitutional Court that “the acts, of which the President of Ukraine is accused, contain elements of treason or other crime.”

Can you show me the Constitutional Court's decision? If a gang of rioters voting in a building, it's constitutional?