Odessa slaughter: How vicious mob burnt anti-govt activists alive

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: sosobad

Not that I am saying it happened but what difference does it make? 3 seconds after that shot the fire is gone, totally gone from the window and before you try to make out I am lying check out the video.

Sorry, but as you can see from other molotov cocktails being thrown the fire doesn't just go out in the span of three seconds. And I don't see anyone putting the fire out.

In fact let's see how long a half ounce of gasoline burns...

Looks like it is longer than 3 seconds, and a molotov cocktail has well more than just a half ounce of gas in them.

So you think they set themselves on fire? What would that achieve?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: unity100

Lets say Genghis Khan threw it.

SO what ?

If he did he was inside the building while doing it.

So does it make a difference ?

A guy being able to get into the building, throw a molotov cocktail, and get out ?

Actually it could be possible that the guy may have gone into the building well before protests, despite being a right sector member.

Who could tell.

Fire does not need to start from molotov cocktail. however if there are molotov cocktails being hurled into a building, it would be utterly foolish to think that a fire would not start from them.

They are not fireworks. They are gasoline, and they stick where they break. And burn.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Inside? Outside?

At that point football fans were joined by the ultranationalist Right Sector thugs who surrended the Trade Unions building, where the majority of anti-fascist protesters escaped, rushed in killing everyone on their way and then setting the building on fire by the Molotov cocktails.

She was strangled. Killed slowly. And then the flag of Ukraine waved.

Ukraine is one.

a reply to: unity100

No, its not 'interesting' or 'biased'.

So referring to a government as facists isn't biased, care to show how that isn't being biased?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: unity100

No, its not 'interesting' or 'biased'.

So referring to a government as facists isn't biased, care to show how that isn't being biased?

Have you read the article and saw the previous careers of the people who are in Government now ?

They ARE neonazis.

What adjective are you going to use to classify a government which is comprised of people with neonazi careers ?

Treehuggers ?

originally posted by: sosobad
So you think they set themselves on fire? What would that achieve?

I see you ask this again and again, Sosobad. Did you never drop a bottle? It happened to me more than once, but luckily I prefer cool beer instead of hot cocktails.

The new chief of the police said on a presser today, the fire started within the house on the stairs. Of course, he is a neo-nazi or maybe he is posting here as tsurfer2000h. Whatever, people many people won't believe him - no matter if it is true or not.
He also said, that there was no pregnant woman in the house. This would mean that pic of a strangled woman is fake.

He did not give much informations of the number of casualties and the cause for their deaths. But I saw a few published before and slowly added more as they identified more. Last time I saw it, they had identfied about 16 or so. To my bad it is written in Russian. If the link comes up again, I will copy it.

originally posted by: unity100

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: unity100

No, its not 'interesting' or 'biased'.

So referring to a government as facists isn't biased, care to show how that isn't being biased?

Have you read the article and saw the previous careers of the people who are in Government now ?

They ARE neonazis.

What adjective are you going to use to classify a government which is comprised of people with neonazi careers ?

Treehuggers ?

Nine people is not an entire government. That is like saying that Russia is a Communist KGB government.

originally posted by: Siddharta

originally posted by: sosobad
So you think they set themselves on fire? What would that achieve?

I see you ask this again and again, Sosobad. Did you never drop a bottle? It happened to me more than once, but luckily I prefer cool beer instead of hot cocktails.

The new chief of the police said on a presser today, the fire started within the house on the stairs. Of course, he is a neo-nazi or maybe he is posting here as tsurfer2000h. Whatever, people many people won't believe him - no matter if it is true or not.
He also said, that there was no pregnant woman in the house. This would mean that pic of a strangled woman is fake.

He did not give much informations of the number of casualties and the cause for their deaths. But I saw a few published before and slowly added more as they identified more. Last time I saw it, they had identfied about 16 or so. To my bad it is written in Russian. If the link comes up again, I will copy it.

It is quite curious that someone is actually proposing that someone who works for a neonazi government who is put into power by a coup facilitated by $5 billion u.s. state dept spending, can be taken seriously.

I dont see a need to list the cases of lies, made up information and face-saving measures u.s. backed dictatorships and u.s. govt have perpetuated in the past few years.

Do you ?

a reply to: unity100

It is quite curious that someone is actually proposing that someone who works for a neonazi government who is put into power by a coup facilitated by $5 billion u.s. state dept spending, can be taken seriously.

I dont see a need to list the cases of lies, made up information and face-saving measures u.s. backed dictatorships and u.s. govt have perpetuated in the past few years.

Do you

Yes, absolutely. Without documentation, all you have is jingoistic propaganda. Make your case using verifiable sources, please.

originally posted by: Siddharta

originally posted by: sosobad
So you think they set themselves on fire? What would that achieve?

I see you ask this again and again, Sosobad. Did you never drop a bottle? It happened to me more than once, but luckily I prefer cool beer instead of hot cocktails.

The new chief of the police said on a presser today, the fire started within the house on the stairs. Of course, he is a neo-nazi or maybe he is posting here as tsurfer2000h. Whatever, people many people won't believe him - no matter if it is true or not.
He also said, that there was no pregnant woman in the house. This would mean that pic of a strangled woman is fake.

He did not give much informations of the number of casualties and the cause for their deaths. But I saw a few published before and slowly added more as they identified more. Last time I saw it, they had identfied about 16 or so. To my bad it is written in Russian. If the link comes up again, I will copy it.

If he did say that it is a laughable statement, the place was bombarded with molotovs, the front entrance was a blaze with people cheering, there is a good bit of footage in a link by casijones, have a look at it (but I hope you too won't get this obsession with the window) in there is footage of people shooting at those trying to escape and they were beating them to death in the street, look at the transcript of it. Did you watch the videos of the survivors a few pages back? Believe your eyes not what you are told.

Also why did the chief feel the need to comment on the pregnant woman if it is just an internet hoax?

Thanks for your post all the same.

a reply to: maghun

She was strangled. Killed slowly. And then the flag of Ukraine waved.

So now where in that video does it prove that she was strangled then the flag of Ukraine was flown.

It shows a still pic at the end, so how are you putting the two events together as one, because there is no evidence they happened at the same time except from the description of the video.

Just a little something you may want to know...

When a youtube video disables the comments there is a reason and usually it is because they aren't being as honest as they want you to believe.

originally posted by: DJW001


Nine people is not an entire government. That is like saying that Russia is a Communist KGB government.

Those "nine people" were given security, military, and intelligence posts in the government.

THE posts that actually CONTROL a country.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: unity100

It is quite curious that someone is actually proposing that someone who works for a neonazi government who is put into power by a coup facilitated by $5 billion u.s. state dept spending, can be taken seriously.

I dont see a need to list the cases of lies, made up information and face-saving measures u.s. backed dictatorships and u.s. govt have perpetuated in the past few years.

Do you

Yes, absolutely. Without documentation, all you have is jingoistic propaganda. Make your case using verifiable sources, please.

why do i have to make such a list in a CONSPIRACY forum ?

am i really being asked this ?

Do i have to start with "WMDs in Iraq" to go to "bin laden killed" and keep going on ?

lets be rational.

But i'll be polite and refer you to a ready-made documentary.

www.openfilm.com...

a reply to: unity100

It is quite curious that someone is actually proposing that someone who works for a neonazi government who is put into power by a coup facilitated by $5 billion u.s. state dept spending, can be taken seriously.

And yet when Putin was caught in a lie he can be taken seriously?

originally posted by: unity100
Do you ?

I think, propaganda has many faces. And it works best, when people start to spread it themselves.
I see a lot of people, who think to know the truth and call the others liers.
I think there is truth and lies in both.

But I refuse to defend one side and accuse the other side, if things are not clear.

The only clear fact here is that Russia took Crimea against all international agreements. Everything else is blurred by lies and propaganda on both sides.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: unity100

It is quite curious that someone is actually proposing that someone who works for a neonazi government who is put into power by a coup facilitated by $5 billion u.s. state dept spending, can be taken seriously.

And yet when Putin was caught in a lie he can be taken seriously?

The funny thing about vladimir putin is that, despite being a heavy handed politician, he does not have a habit of lying. even when he is asked questions which can cause him a lot of votes in yearly live tv sessions, he blatantly tells what he thinks, very often shocking both the audience and the citizen on the phone.

However,

putin does not have anything to do with this.

This kind of lying, subverting, massacring and then blaming the massacred has been a hallmark of u.s. perpetuated fascist regimes and cia in the past 50 years.

the video i linked, explains that. if you are interested, watch.

originally posted by: Siddharta

originally posted by: unity100
Do you ?

I think, propaganda has many faces. And it works best, when people start to spread it themselves.
I see a lot of people, who think to know the truth and call the others liers.
I think there is truth and lies in both.

But I refuse to defend one side and accuse the other side, if things are not clear.

The only clear fact here is that Russia took Crimea against all international agreements. Everything else is blurred by lies and propaganda on both sides.

I dont see anything blurred about u.s. state dept spending $5 billion to stage a coup in ukraine, using neonazi groups cia trained.

US State Dept. is not denying that, they are actually PROUD of it, so it is pointless to argue otherwise.

"International agreements" do not cover a country instigating a coup in another country with $5 billion spending, and putting a coup government to give them money and resources.

If something which amounted to 1% of this was done to mexico or canada, u.s. would readily be at war with the country which did it.

By the way, what being pushed by us state dept in ukraine is not different than what was pushed in libya, syria, venezuela, egypt, and many other places. As Ret. Gen. Wesley Clark explained.

Its appalling that people can STILL think that something that is repeated over and over in the past 50 years in the SAME manner is 'murky'.

a reply to: unity100

I dont see a need to list the cases of lies, made up information and face-saving measures u.s. backed dictatorships and u.s. govt have perpetuated in the past few years.

And Putin was telling the truth when he gave his reason for invading Crimea?

How about Georgia, was he being truthful then too?

And wasn't the president of Ukraine a stooge for Putin that robbed the country blind for his own gain?

a reply to: unity100

The funny thing about vladimir putin is that, despite being a heavy handed politician, he does not have a habit of lying.

Really, was he just not caught in two lies just from Crimea alone?

We won't even get into what the reason they invaded Georgia as I don't want to drift off topic, but you may want to look into the reason for that invasion.

Then tell me he doesn't lie.

a reply to: unity100

I dont see anything blurred about u.s. state dept spending $5 billion to stage a coup in ukraine, using neonazi groups cia trained.

And you think it is okay to send Russian Special forces into Ukraine and Crimea to start a civil war?

This goes both ways not only is the US guilty but Russia is just as guilty when it comes to Ukraine.

a reply to: unity100

Those "nine people" were given security, military, and intelligence posts in the government.

THE posts that actually CONTROL a country.

Actually, they only enforce the decisions of the people who control the country. Being a brutal thug seems to be a qualification for police and military work in that part of the world, so you have to admit being a militant punk is an advantage... and you don't have to do difficult math the way you would if you were the Finance Minister or in charge of Public Works.

As for the rest of your post, the intellectual laziness it demonstrates itself suggests a reason for your beliefs.