Young Men Lacking Virility and Drive?

a reply to: Pinke

I don't think ANY of those eras come CLOSE to what I'm talking about.

We don't appear to be talking about anything close to the same data set. . . nor working with even roughly the same dictionary.


Gallowglaich: You might check your PM's. Click on the white letter icon on the upper right.

originally posted by: Gallowglaich
a reply to: Pinke

Yes yes, Morrigan and Boudicca and gender equality, I know all about it. It is true that women sometimes fought, but it wouldn't be a regular occurrence. That would be a fanciful way to look at history.

The entire sentence is straw and projection, sorry.

I'm not defending any particular claim towards women regularly making up armed forces or anything related to gender equality. You're defending the claims:

1. Ned culture is good for young men
2. Tribal culture was superior to current culture
3. Ladettes are bad

(Overall some kind of argument or appeal towards 'natural gender roles'? correct me if I've missed something here.)

Your claims contradict one another in their requirements. Ladette culture goes hand in hand with Ned culture, so therefore Ned culture can't be 'good'. Tribal culture includes plenty of hedonism and also included ladettes depending on which historical brand you're subscribing to, which causes problems for your initial claims unless there is a particular tribe you want to refer to.

BO XIAN: apologies, I just have nothing to say back to that. There is only so much teeth pulling I can do to attempt to understand someone's point.

originally posted by: Pinke

originally posted by: Gallowglaich
a reply to: Pinke

Yes yes, Morrigan and Boudicca and gender equality, I know all about it. It is true that women sometimes fought, but it wouldn't be a regular occurrence. That would be a fanciful way to look at history.

The entire sentence is straw and projection, sorry.

I'm not defending any particular claim towards women regularly making up armed forces or anything related to gender equality. You're defending the claims:

1. Ned culture is good for young men
2. Tribal culture was superior to current culture
3. Ladettes are bad

(Overall some kind of argument or appeal towards 'natural gender roles'? correct me if I've missed something here.)

Your claims contradict one another in their requirements. Ladette culture goes hand in hand with Ned culture, so therefore Ned culture can't be 'good'. Tribal culture includes plenty of hedonism and also included ladettes depending on which historical brand you're subscribing to, which causes problems for your initial claims unless there is a particular tribe you want to refer to.

BO XIAN: apologies, I just have nothing to say back to that. There is only so much teeth pulling I can do to attempt to understand someone's point.

Yes, those three things you listed are my main points.

However, I don't really understand how "ladettes" and Neds are related. Is a "ladette" just a woman who likes to drink and get wild sometimes? Because I don't really have a problem with that in and of itself.

What are you- a man, woman, homosexual? What is your agenda?

Since when is such a gross over generalization allowed without even one source?
This should be moved to the rant forum.

originally posted by: Gallowglaich
Is a "ladette" just a woman who likes to drink and get wild sometimes? Because I don't really have a problem with that in and of itself.

Absolutely ladettes do that, but the term as I understand it also covers violent and aggressive behaviors and these behaviors also go hand in hand with neds and ned culture.

Neds and ladettes, do have a reputation for putting out babies but not in a good healthy way. Some of the stereotype is unfair, but its not entirely without reason. Redefine it if you need to, but I just can't really see why you would think this culture is good thing or aligns to natural gender roles when one of the major criticisms of it is that it warps naturalized gender roles from some parties.

Perhaps its less about the definition of ladette that is important, and more about how all these things align to natural gender roles and that being a good thing?

What are you- a man, woman, homosexual? What is your agenda?

I don't want to play identity politics this week or at all really. Most of it is just a smoke screen that discourages actual discussions and understanding.

I often strongly disagree with people but I am also curious about other people's world views, especially ones I find difficult to comprehend.

a reply to: Gallowglaich

More people + more information technology = more chances to see what has always existed.

originally posted by: DeepImpactX

I agree, and I think that's where the misunderstandings come into play. People see a 15 year with no drive or ambition and call them lazy. They're 15 so they haven't been beaten down and blinded by society yet. They see things for what they are and they don't want to play the game. Think about it, all it would take is for that entire generation to tune out and stay that way until the preceding generation dies off. What do you have then? A very good chunk of society not playing the game and, by that non-action, forcing a change.

I like this a lot.

Who's to say that kids today are "lazy" because they don't want to play a broken game? Maybe those kids people condemn as unmotivated are simply able to see through the stupidity of working your entire life for rich bastards and greedy corporations that don't give a damn about you.

If that's the motivation behind the supposed laziness, maybe they're not so lazy after all. Maybe they just caught on to the truth a lot faster than the rest of us.

What is it they are supposed to look forward to? They can look up and see all these people in the 25-35 year old range, who did all the right things, and have nothing to show for it. Even worse, a lot are in the negative, piled up in debt from doing the right thing and getting post high-school education. Working in # part time jobs just hoping for that chance to come by and land the career they went to school for. Or all the tradesmen that were doing the right thing, and ended up in a deep pit when the real estate market crashed. Everything is going down the toilette, if I could relive my late teen years and my 20's, I would be doing the same thing. Partying it up. Busting my ass all those years got me nowheres.

To the OP: You are absolutely insane. Your version of manhood is going out and getting in fights all the time? That doesn't say very much about your intelligence. The ones who live the longest and can do the most things are the ones who spend the least time in combat.

originally posted by: Gallowglaich
I am more of a man than you will ever meet in your life. If you looked upon me in person, and spoke with me, you would be in awe, and you would talk to me with the utmost respect.

I give you no respect. What are you going to do? Beat the respect into me? You're a bum that glorifies tribal killings, racism, and homophobia.

originally posted by: Gallowglaich
It seems that so many young men these days have mostly resigned themselves to just indulging in the latest hedonistic trends: partying, drug-use, promiscuity, listening to banal pop music, lacking any true conviction, and preferring to live their lives in pursuit of selfish pleasures. I see a lack of real ambition, I see fear of committing to a greater cause.

Well, I don't go out and party, I don't use drugs, and I find the idea of alcohol sickening. Promiscuity? Who cares if the people involved are consenting? Music? I rarely listen but when I do I like Dio, Michael Jackson, Freddie Mercury, the Beatles, and Mozart. All of which were talked down by the older generations at the time their music came out. I don't see why my musical tastes are any more valid than someone elses.

As for ambition well... I just don't see the point in participating in the system traditionally.

My dad works 14-16 hour days 7 days a week, he gets a nice paycheck but he has no time to enjoy it. A few years back his ex wife took half of everything he owned. When 2008 happened he lost another half. He'll get to retire which is better than my generation but most of what he sacrificed all his time with his family for was stolen by others.

My mom had a nice life but had a medical problem, she lost her home, is unable to work, went far into debt and has nothing to show for 40 years of working. I buy her groceries so she isn't forced to choose food or medicine.

I've got a college education, 4 degrees actually and soon to be a 5th. I have no debt but I also don't want to go work for a corporation. I'll get paid back equal to between 5% and 10% in the value I generate for the company and if my previous work experiences are anything to go by... live every day in constant fear of being fired. If a corporation is going to have no loyalty to me, why should I have loyalty to them and help them at all? I would rather they not benefit from my talents.

I realized long ago that I will never own a home, make enough money to take a vacation, or be able to afford to raise a family if I take the traditional route. That's simply the way it is due to the "new" economic system. So why participate? My ambition is to learn everything I need to learn to create my own product with my own business that I want to create. Then my ambition is to use the money earned to enter politics and maybe change something if it's not too late by that point.

There's things I want to do, but the traditional idea of getting a home, having a wife and kid, taking family vacations, and one day retiring isn't one of them. That possible future was stolen by the bankers. It's the same for many in my generation.

a reply to: Aazadan


Where have I expressed racist sentiments? Please quote the post where you see racism?

If my beliefs are "sexist" because I believe in significant differences between men and women, then so be it. I accept that. But please point out the example of racism?

originally posted by: Gallowglaich
It seems that so many young men these days have mostly resigned themselves to just indulging in the latest hedonistic trends: partying, drug-use, promiscuity, listening to banal pop music, lacking any true conviction, and preferring to live their lives in pursuit of selfish pleasures. I see a lack of real ambition, I see fear of committing to a greater cause.

Is mindless hedonism just the name of the game these days? Will this trend continue? Because if the new generations continue on this path, I see the inevitable breakdown and steady dismantling of all that the past generations of Americans worked so hard to build for their posterity. It seems their posterity isn't quite worthy of that sacrifice and dedication.

Maybe this kind of soft, cushy western lifestyle that demands so little in the way of resilience and determination is the culprit. Humans weren't meant to live like this. We were meant to be pushed, not pampered and coddled like children, we were meant to struggle and work hard to survive. There is no real challenge in life these days, no hardships to spur you on and inspire ingenuity and genius.

I see stagnation and decay, and I hope something will come along and shock us into action. Because right now, for me, this state of America, of the Western world.... It's hell, and it's blasphemous. Humanity is becoming sick and debased, Western society is decaying and festering right before our eyes.

We didn't develop sentience and higher intelligence for this. Either humanity has greater purpose and potential than I am seeing now, or this is as far as we'll get. And that is a scary notion.

The allies flooded germany with porn during ww2. To break their spirit and will. Tptb have simply perfected this technique

a reply to: symptomoftheuniverse

That is true, also pornography and prostition were rampant during the Weimar era.

a reply to: Gallowglaich the above and the de-sensitisation to blood and gore does not bore well for the future.
Its not the kids fault.

a reply to: Gallowglaich

I find it hard to get my ship sailIng again with friends and with society and with societal changes and even technological changes that leave me dazed confused and such.

Not that it can't be overcome. For me finding the right balance is harder now than usual.

Issues that have been linked to this at least in articles are feminism (confusing guys), even by feminists, and estrogen / hormones in the water supply from birth control. In addition, there could be S.S.R.I. Side effects that even in studies can include lack of drive.

This could even be in the water supply, as the standards for clean water are outdated and don't include these chems.

In addition, I feel scared to take any ambitious action because of what I consider to be a hostile and dangerous political environment in the U.S.

It is too dangerous to stand out. In conclusion, there is a lot stacked up against ambition right now, including micro managing and hard to understand rules and regulations.

originally posted by: Gallowglaich
a reply to: Aazadan


Where have I expressed racist sentiments? Please quote the post where you see racism?

If my beliefs are "sexist" because I believe in significant differences between men and women, then so be it. I accept that. But please point out the example of racism?

This is a documented issue affecting men in their later 20s the most but other men as well.

Whatever the issue is seems to be almost exclusively affecting men, there are statistics showing that men are having trouble adapting to and entering the current work force.

I have looked into this issue before.

a reply to: darkbake

I certainly believe the problem is with our society and modern values, not with the men themselves.

Perhaps it's also because school is boring, in this way I mean you don't have to research much yourself. It's ''dry'' stuff mostly, learning/remembering the stuff that is handed over so to spreak. It's often not that you do your own research, you just mostly learn/read about stuff as a fact which you must remember and just ''get it''.
Only with math most boys are better still since it's more about ''logical thinking''.

If you like for example science, there isn't much on school on that subject. At least not the first schools (not talking about Universities) in that way you can do your own research on the matter (at least again not much or deeply).

Girls do much better on schools, why is that? I read about a study that boys just don't cope very well with the school system as we have today. And I do believe boys general are better at science with being original&imagination (which are imo needed for science).
So if boys who often it seems get demotivated on school, you may not end up as a scientist even when he would be very good at it, you need to be the best on the school before doing a University which are very general/broad/boring in learning and often demotivating for allot of boys.
And I guess boys will get distracted faster, like we now have video games, boys would play games 2 much (general speaking) and so on, while girls (overall..) will spend much more time on their homework (without their parents pushing them).

a reply to: Gallowglaich

I see stagnation and decay, and I hope something will come along and shock us into action -

So let me guess,you had war in mind, bring back conscription and shove them off to another vietnam or trenches. This type of heinous thinking plays right into the hands of the arms manufacturers/bankers. Wow, you're a dinosaur

a reply to: Gallowglaich

women were expected to pop out as many children as they could for the strength of the group.

keep them barefooted and pregnant, depriving women of education,
You must herald from the late 1800's. You must be at least 110 years old, never read a book in your life, grunted when facing other males from another tribe. Did you pull the women from the tribes you conquered by the hair or over your shoulder. Your hilarious. I mean pause for a minute....are you having us on or do you really spew off such rubbish before thing.

originally posted by: Gallowglaich

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
a reply to: Gallowglaich

So you are knowingly poisoning your own soul whilst lecturing others on the dangers of doing just that?

Hmmm... I think we have a word for that...

I'm guessing since living in comfort is "poison for the soul" you must be living in a log cabin you built with your bare hands, blood, sweat and tears (though I'm guessing you would be too manly to cry)?

Furthermore, how are you even on ATS? Surely computers and dare I say even electricity are certainly modern comforts or, as you please, poison of the soul?

I am more of a man than you will ever meet in your life. If you looked upon me in person, and spoke with me, you would be in awe, and you would talk to me with the utmost respect.

Shouldn't this be under the comic section? There really is some gut busting going on here reading this thread!

Gosh darn metro sexual and serial killers! And all these modern devices are whats causing the rise in homosexuality! It all started back when steam cars and trains first came out. If more folks had to wash their clothes down at the creek this would still be a strong country! (sarc alert!)