Young Men Lacking Virility and Drive?

It seems that so many young men these days have mostly resigned themselves to just indulging in the latest hedonistic trends: partying, drug-use, promiscuity, listening to banal pop music, lacking any true conviction, and preferring to live their lives in pursuit of selfish pleasures. I see a lack of real ambition, I see fear of committing to a greater cause.

Is mindless hedonism just the name of the game these days? Will this trend continue? Because if the new generations continue on this path, I see the inevitable breakdown and steady dismantling of all that the past generations of Americans worked so hard to build for their posterity. It seems their posterity isn't quite worthy of that sacrifice and dedication.

Maybe this kind of soft, cushy western lifestyle that demands so little in the way of resilience and determination is the culprit. Humans weren't meant to live like this. We were meant to be pushed, not pampered and coddled like children, we were meant to struggle and work hard to survive. There is no real challenge in life these days, no hardships to spur you on and inspire ingenuity and genius.

I see stagnation and decay, and I hope something will come along and shock us into action. Because right now, for me, this state of America, of the Western world.... It's hell, and it's blasphemous. Humanity is becoming sick and debased, Western society is decaying and festering right before our eyes.

We didn't develop sentience and higher intelligence for this. Either humanity has greater purpose and potential than I am seeing now, or this is as far as we'll get. And that is a scary notion.

I used to like to party when I was young, and I worked really well, outproducing most others I worked with. I think it is more the attitude and feeling of entitlement that causes the problem. I knew a lot of people of all ages that would go out of their way to not produce what they were paid to produce, saying that if they produced the employer would up the quota. I rarely ever saw that in employers though, they were happy with good responsible workers. What winds up happening is that the employer can't raise wages if the workers aren't producing. There are a few employers that took advantage of people working hard I hear, but these guys were rare. Most of the people I worked for in my life were not like that, and neither was I. If my workers produced well, we would take a long lunchbreak and I would try to give them wage increases. I tried not to hire people who would disrupt the job, we used to have fun working. Work can be fun and still produce a good product efficiently.

So I would say it is people who wanted a paycheck and not wanting to actually produce is the problem

originally posted by: rickymouse
I used to like to party when I was young, and I worked really well, outproducing most others I worked with. I think it is more the attitude and feeling of entitlement that causes the problem. I knew a lot of people of all ages that would go out of their way to not produce what they were paid to produce, saying that if they produced the employer would up the quota. I rarely ever saw that in employers though, they were happy with good responsible workers. What winds up happening is that the employer can't raise wages if the workers aren't producing. There are a few employers that took advantage of people working hard I hear, but these guys were rare. Most of the people I worked for in my life were not like that, and neither was I. If my workers produced well, we would take a long lunchbreak and I would try to give them wage increases. I tried not to hire people who would disrupt the job, we used to have fun working. Work can be fun and still produce a good product efficiently.

Yes, partying itself is not really an important factor, perhaps I misused it as an example. I still go to parties and get sh*tfaced every once in a while, but I never made a lifestyle out of it like the people on "Jersey Shore" and the like.

Anyway, I agree completely.

Have you noticed any increasing trend among your potential employees of being unproductive and only looking to work at the bare minimum required to keep their jobs?

a reply to: Gallowglaich

I had mostly guys working for me that liked to work. I hired a few over the years that wanted to slack off and the other employees let me know about it. They liked when everyone worked the same, we produced fairly well and everyone worked together pretty well. I tried to hire people in the fall, then if they didn't produce, I just laid them off early and the next spring wouldn't hire them back. I usually kept one guy part time most of the winter and he got to collect partial unemployment. I am a residential builder, I only ran one crew and worked on the crew myself along with the other guys. I did my estimating and billing after work, putting in many hours a day. The workers worked between eight to ten hours, and I paid their lunch and coffee breaks, which sometimes got pretty long. It would have been nice if I could have paid them a little better, but I knew most of the people I did stuff for, giving them a decent price... But I had no advertising costs, all word of mouth business and they were good customers. I was super fussy with my work also and it takes more time to make the same amount of money. My workers were usually happy that I was slowing them down a bit and having them do a good job they could be proud of. I got some of them better paying jobs for bigger contractors, I trained a lot of people how to work.

a reply to: Gallowglaich

young men these days have mostly resigned themselves to just indulging in the latest hedonistic trends: partying, drug-use, promiscuity, listening to banal pop music, lacking any true conviction, and preferring to live their lives in pursuit of selfish pleasures.

Wow, are you describing my generation, the boomers? We were so decadent I wondered for decades if anyone would ever make it to work on time.

Nah, people haven't changed much in that regard. They're still selfish, self absorbed and as oblivious as they ever where. They'll grow out of it when it bites them in the butt.

My father said the same thing about my generation. My grandfather said the same about my father's generation. Nothing changes much except the tech, unfortunately.

Well my Dad worked hard for nearly 40 years and the divorce and 2008 took everything he worked for during the prime of his life. It made me embrace the mantra that no one ever dies saying the wished they had worked more.

I say live frugally and concentrate on kids and family. In the end, the only thing that's real in this world are people and the relationships we form.

originally posted by: Metallicus
Well my Dad worked hard for nearly 40 years and the divorce and 2008 took everything he worked for during the prime of his life. It made me embrace the mantra that no one ever dies saying the wished they had worked more.

I say live frugally and concentrate on kids and family. In the end, the only thing that's real in this world are people and the relationships we form.

Well, this isn't so much about simply working, it's about having the drive and ambition that's necessary for people to make real breakthroughs, the things that make revolutionary ideas and discoveries possible. I just don't see it in this new generation.

a reply to: Gallowglaich

In my extended family this has become a topic of conversation often recently. How to motivate them?
In my family there are six young men who are three years apart in age. Three have worked since they were 12 or 13 years of age, did well in school while holding part-time jobs, won scholarships to college, and finished college without incurring debt. The other three never did well in school so never won any scholarships, never worked while they were teens, never played sports. Those three still live with their parents, working at fast food jobs that don't even pay their car payments---which their parents co-signed on the loan for.
These young men are from the same socio-economic class, had the same opportunities. Three of them are living their dreams, debt-free at end of their higher education and working at a job they love. One is married and about to put about a 70% down-payment on a first house. The other two are engaged to be married and already have accounts dedicated to buying their first home. They don't have new cars or gadgets but they don't have any debt either. They are positive, upbeat and fun to be around.
The listless ones aren't bad guys but neither are they good guys. They're just big digestive systems that seem to have no ambition beyond getting a new gadget and figuring out how to get someone else to pay for it. They are constantly whining about how broke they are and how "lucky" some people are to have a job paying more than minimum wage.
People of my generation can't identify with this idea of boomerang children. When we were teens, our greatest ambition was to get out on our own. Didn't matter that six of us had to move into an old farm house---we were free and independent people! Yeah, we had some parties but we also knew that we had to go to that drab job to pay our part of the rent and utilities. Yeah, we reduced our standard of living when we moved from our parents' home to "freedom" in a crappy apartment or trailer house. But we were motivated to increase our standards of living by our circumstances. The LAST thing we would have considered was moving home.
So it's a source of endless speculation and examination by my generation. I have a dear friend who is struggling to push her 27 year-old nestling from the nest. She's much like the listless males in my family---perfectly happy to mooch off her mother, no ambition whatsoever... It is truly sad to see.

originally posted by: Bassago
a reply to: Gallowglaich

young men these days have mostly resigned themselves to just indulging in the latest hedonistic trends: partying, drug-use, promiscuity, listening to banal pop music, lacking any true conviction, and preferring to live their lives in pursuit of selfish pleasures.

Wow, are you describing my generation, the boomers? We were so decadent I wondered for decades if anyone would ever make it to work on time.

Nah, people haven't changed much in that regard. They're still selfish, self absorbed and as oblivious as they ever where. They'll grow out of it when it bites them in the butt.

My father said the same thing about my generation. My grandfather said the same about my father's generation. Nothing changes much except the tech, unfortunately.

It's far more insidious now than it ever has been. The attitude, the atmosphere of decadence these days is unlike anything before in human history. We have never lived such soft, easy lives in all our existence. And like I said, we weren't meant..... we didn't evolve to live this way.

It's far worse these days than it was during your generation, I know you can see that. It's amplified in a way that would make the generation that fought through WWII roll in their graves.

We are regressing, not progressing. This environment of leniency and "tolerance" is only conducive to devolution.

When the economy crashes and tshtf they will learn .. if they survive ..

Cant expect much from a generation where mommy daddy and the state give them everything on a platter without them having to work .. parents failed to teach them proper when they were young ..

a reply to: Bassago

Nothing changes much except the tech, unfortunately. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes, and I'm am eternally grateful to have been in the stupid stage of life when social media didn't exist! In today's digital world there is no such thing as "burning the evidence." Once it's out there in cyberspace it is there to stay---until some huge solar flare vaporizes cyberspace.

www.csmonitor.com...
I have to admit that I look around and say "kids these days are lazy" and I'm only 37. Maybe there's hope.

Sorry. The link is to an article that says high school graduation is record high.

It may just be due to the modern lifestyle of the west, which is too easy.

On the other hand, I have read a lot in past years of how this generation may turn out simply in the natural way of humanity, and in reaction to the previous generations and events. (as in the Strauss-Howe theory)

One thing they predicted is that the children of the X generation would be the opposite of their parents, as is the usual pattern. Particularly because the X gens were so used to hardship, opposition, independence and struggle to survive, they either ended up in work that they are over qualified for, and underpaid, or the more ambitious end up blocked in their ascension by the more numerous Baby Boomers. They take it in stride because they're used to it.

In either case, what their kids observe is that being a responsible hardworking grown up sorta sucks. They don't see much reason to follow in those footsteps.

So also following the repeated pattern in culture, they end up reflecting more closely the values and habits of their grandparents- the social interdependancy and hedonistic ideals of the Baby Boomers call to them much more strongly. Hippies had the right idea.

Who could blame them? Human nature is naturally drawn to follow and mimic the ones in power, and they continually see the Baby Boomers squashing the tough hard working X gens.

In 2014, they still represent the majority of the workforce. They were once living off their parents and the state in college, or off the land in hippy communities of free love and drugs, and yet now, they are living high on the hog, and got out of most of the responsible stuff (like staying home to raise children).

We see todays society as so easy, but they would disagree- finding work is not as easy as it was when we were young.
But in any case, as my kids watch me slaving away in a kitchen despite my college education, and my parents rich just on spewing originally drug inspired verbal nonsense and a conviction of their own awesomeness , never having to sweat or move a muscle, it would be really suspicious if they didn't decide my parents had the key to happiness!

originally posted by: Expat888
When the economy crashes and tshtf they will learn .. if they survive ..

Cant expect much from a generation where mommy daddy and the state give them everything on a platter without them having to work .. parents failed to teach them proper when they were young ..

In general principles I can agree with you on the "platter" kids. But in my family two of three turned into moochers---with the same parents. The eldest is an achiever, motivated. The younger two are lumps. In another case the elder is the mooch while the younger is living his dream, enlarging his goals. Same parents. The younger works a full time job then uses the time he's not on the job to put his mechanical skills to work. All these parents are hard-working, frugal living people. The children were never put into day care, their mothers took time to raise them and found ways to produce income at home. They were all educated in public schools.
I'm not even sure these "listless ones" have enough drive to be truly hedonistic....unless it involves using an electronic gadget.

It's not entitlement or lack of understanding it's more that going into the real world is a crippling experience for most because there's nowhere to start if youre not an ivy league prep student. Or even if you just can't afford college and especially for those who know how corrupt things actually are. You feel like a hypocrit and most of us have actually just given up because we don't see any future or at least any future to live and strive for.
Nothing to truly live for except to survive and take comfort in whatever you can because you know your not going anywhere unless you have the entitlement because your parents paved the way for you. This is coming from a young adult born into the lower middle class
You also can't just lump us all into one group it's two groups: either your fudged or your gonna be the richest most corrupt anus you can be.

a reply to: Bluesma

It may just be due to the modern lifestyle of the west, which is too easy.

Perhaps but it will only take a single generation of war to wake them up. Real in your face war, not this attack tiny or weak nations stuff. I'm talking the war that comes home.

Also if there isn't war there is always the elites depopulation agenda and finding out that they are simply considered useless eaters. When the robots start running the stores and the elites have transhumanized themselves there will be no place for the remaining 90-95%. They may wake up in time.

I don't know that it's either better or worse than it's ever been. I'm a teacher, and I personally find the so called 'millenials' to be generally switched on, motivated, and hard working. Where I am situated, there seems to have been (in my memory at least), a lot more violence and innapropriate behaviour in the past. In my youth I remember gangs of Nazi skinheads and punks having pitched battles, plenty of young pregnant women, and a lot of consumption of harmful and mind altering substances, both licit and illicit.

In many ways, I think the younger generation to be far better informed, and more tolerant. For instance, there is less racism, sexist behaviour, and homophobia. A healthier more questioning attitude, and a general unwillingness s to blindly accept lies from those in authority.

I think (like others have mentioned already), there's a tendency to think that the current 'young generation are worse than those who have preceded them, and quite simply I don't think this the case. I think the baby boomers and those of the hippie generation were far more hedonistic and decadent than anything we see today. Read an account of lifestyles in the 1970s of fifteen year old girls chasing after band like Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath, and I think this far more outrageous than the somewhat timid behavioural discrepancies of Justin Bieber or Lindsay Lohan.

The internet, welfare, cheap Chinese goods and cashed up parents have changed today's youth for the worse.
But its more than attitudes towards cash, its sexuality.

Masculinity is going out the window in favor of men wearing eye liner, dressing in more feminine clothing and losing the ''balls'' to talk to women or even stand up for ladies.

On the opposite, women are losing their femininity. Tattoos, piercings, dressing like men, becoming drunks, abusive, overweight etc.

Then you get to sex. Youth are losing their sex drive (particularly men) because of the ease to view pornography on the internet.

Society's f***ed... and we only have our lazy selves to blame.

This sums it up a bit:


All joking side, I suppose I don't really understand what we're referring to?

We've understood more about our universe in the last two decades than we have in every other decade combined. So I don't understand the revolutionary ideas concept. Comforts of living I understand, but this was no different to when running water became available in Rome.

The discussion of masculinity and gender I don't quite fathom either. Ancient civilizations men used to wear eye liner and pink. The relationships between men and women are changing, but I find it odd that anyone would focus on women being over weight in particular. We have more technologies to reduce weight than we've ever had in human history. Lemon detox, lypo suction, running like a rat on a tread mill ... Plus people get older because they live longer so they get fatter. That's life.

Decadence has always been there, its just been unusually hidden. If we want to talk about something, lets talk about domestic violence. Its gone waaaaaaaay down in comparison to the first half of last century. The younger generation will be quite capable of rolling in their graves at the old generations, its not a one way thing.

The world is changing, people are adjusting ... I don't mind discussion about it, but can anyone bring something constructive to the table over suggestions that men wear less make up, women get less fat, and people have it too easy?

I thought this thread was going to be about something else entirely. "Drive" of another sort (which is another increasingly common problem).

Anyway. I'm of the opinion that, in many cases, men are lacking ambition because they're becoming aware of how futile their efforts will most likely be.

Everything they earn is stolen. They only earned it to be able to keep earning in the first place.

Could it be that people are catching on and escaping into a hedonistic fantasyland to not have to think about it?