Oklahoma Botched Execution - Clayton Lockett took 45 Minutes to Die

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

this is copied from your post.

This is a thread about the fact that the prison authorities botched the execution.
The State should not indulge itself in what amounts to torture -
it should provide a fast and humane version of the death penalty.

The botched execution was a result of
poor veins and arteries of Clayton Lockett.
Or divine comedic intervention.

And the doctor couldn't find a decent vein to administer the drugs into? That's a botched execution. That's careless and sloppy.

a reply to: Acidx

His rights were not denied or violated. The man simply had crappy veins. And if you don't believe that there are a plethora of drugs that do the job of killing people effectively (and with minimal physical discomfort) check out the statistics of accidental deaths each year from legally prescribed pharmaceuticals. Having worked ICU for 30 years, I've taken care of a lot of accidental and intentional overdose patients. To date, not one of them has had seizures or been writhing and screaming in pain.
You personally may not like the death penalty but at least get your facts straight before you throw a tantrum. In order for the state to have violated the rights of the executed man, they would have had to show intent to torture him which clearly was not the case.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg
every year there are 120,000 deaths caused by medical mismanagement.
this year there were 120,001 deaths caused by the fault of a medical professional.
pick one of those other 120,000 for which to squeeze out a tear or two of sympathetic weeping.

where is sympathy anyway?
Between S**T and syphilis in the dictionary.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg
in order to claim it as a botched
execution the man would still be alive and probably on life support.
what do the angry Welsh know about that anyway.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I love how people watch a few episodes of Scrbs and think they know something about the medical field. For all we know they did try to start another IV. That may be why they closed the curtains when they realized that things were not going according to Hoyle. It may be that they tried and couldn't get one. We don't know. All we can do is speculate until the investigation is completed.
What requires no speculation is whether or not the prisoner's rights were violated. They were not. The way the execution was carried out was an unfortunate accident due to the patient's own weak veins. Oklahoma is considering returning to the firing squad or electric chair as a method for future executions.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

when a person is having a seizure
their venous system usually collapses.
then you have to go subclavical.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

this is copied from your post.

This is a thread about the fact that the prison authorities botched the execution.
The State should not indulge itself in what amounts to torture -
it should provide a fast and humane version of the death penalty.

The botched execution was a result of
poor veins and arteries of Clayton Lockett.
Or divine comedic intervention.

And the doctor couldn't find a decent vein to administer the drugs into? That's a botched execution. That's careless and sloppy.

Doctors are not permitted to be involved in executions in the US, so that is one of the systemic problems right there.

originally posted by: spirited75

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
While I do support the death penalty, I only support limited use for extreme cases. For me, for a death sentance to be even considered in a case, the following criteria must be met:

1. The evidence against the convicted person is overwhelming, and solid links have been established and shown that the person was indeed guilty of the crime. Like, more than just DNA and fingerprints, prosecution needs to show irrefutable connection and proof, showing exactly how DNA/fingerprints/other evidence proved no one but the convicted did the deed. Circumstantial cases, no matter how compelling, should never be considered for capital punishment.

2. The crime was especially horrific, monstrous, and truly evil. Like, sexual and sadistic murders involving torture, mutilation, and abuse of victims before killing them. Also, any homicide and assault committed against particularly vulnerable groups, mainly crimes against children, the elderly, or disabled, fall under this category. Mass murders of any sort, whether spree killings or terrorist acts, also qualify, since murdering many people at a time, whatever the reason, is unusually horrific.

3. Some level of pre-meditation should be involved.

4. The convicted must be mentally competent. While people with Narcissism or Psychopathic personalities can be downright evil bastards, they are, by all definitions, sane and fully aware of their actions. They just don't care. And while people who have depression, anxiety, add, ect are mentally ill, they are still mentally competent and aware of reality and right vs wrong. However, people with schizophrenia, down syndrome, or some sort of psychosis or major mental/developmental disorder that either limits their total mental functioning and reasoning, or causes total detachment from reality. A guy who goes and shoots up a school yard full of kids because voices inside his head from God told him that the children's souls were being eaten by aliens, and he had to free them by shooting them, is not himself really evil. His mind was truly sick. The dude definitely needs to be locked up for the rest of his life in a place for the criminally insane, but I do not think it right to execute him. He is not in control of himself. he can't. His mind, which is the computer that runs the factory that is his body, is loaded with viruses, spyware, bugs, and technical issues. That is why it is sending faulty messages to the machinery, causing it all to malfunction.

Using this analogy, if the same guy shot up a yard full of kids simply because they were a different color, or were making too much noise that he couldn't listen to Jerry Springer across the street, or because bloody dead bodies of children gave him sexual arousal, or because he wanted attention....that is a person who is sane, just evil and twisted.

That said, when it comes to executions, those who fit the criteria, if their execution gets botched, well, yeah it sucks, and while we are attempting to show more kindness than the condemned did their victims, I'm not really gonna get too teary eyed if it gets screwed up once in a while. Especially for crimes involving sex, because those are often the most evil ones of all, seemingly driven by every single deadly sin at once.

how are you going to apply all of these complicated rules at 230 am in the morning after being rudely interrupted and awakened from sleep by both your front and rear door being kicked in at the same time??
And as you realize it is not a dream you hear your two grade school aged children screaming.

so how are you going to apply all of your complicated constipated rules???

A gun is like a parachute. If you suddenly need one and do not have one, you will never need one again.


here is my rule for death penalty: invade my space and i will kill you.

that is the simple rule applied in the death penalty for these two criminals in the act of committing a crime.

I think he was talking about state sponsored execution as punishment for certain criminal acts, not self defense. The two are really not comparable. Although I agree with what you are saying, defending your life in the heat of the moment when a threat is coming at you and the state after a jury trial and conviction executing a criminal in custody are different things.

a reply to: NavyDoc

in the source article it describes a doctor examining
mr locketts iv and determining that it had blown out a vein.

a reply to: kimar

It strikes me as odd that that woman would blame an execution on something she or her murdered daughter has done. I question her line of mind/emotion/thought because the laws and consequences are there to deter and punish such heinous crimes and if a person chooses to commit torture and murder then they, as everyone else, know the consquences.

a reply to: InTheLight

You believe in killing others so its your mind/emotion/thought that is in question.

The death penalty does not deter crimes. A very small amount of research is needed to learn this.

originally posted by: kimar
a reply to: InTheLight

You believe in killing others so its your mind/emotion/thought that is in question.

The death penalty does not deter crimes. A very small amount of research is needed to learn this.

I didn't post that I believe in killing others, rather I'm discussing the existing law that the majority of citizens in certain states choose to keep; are all of their minds in question as well?

As well, please post your proof that the death penalty does not deter murderous crimes in any degree.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: DustbowlDebutante
a reply to: FlyersFan
Maybe we could (state by state) come up with several ways to be executed and let the inmate choose. I think that's a great idea!

I seem to remember Gary Gilmore insisting on death by firing squad. He insisted on a death sentence and he insisted on death by firing squad. They gave it to him.

Nike's "Just Do It" slogan was inspired by Gary Gilmore's last words "Let's do it." before he was executed by firing squad.

a reply to: InTheLight

Yes, all those who wish death upon another human need to have their minds questioned.

Seriously?

www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

From the above site: "The murder rate in non-death penalty states has remained consistently lower than the rate in states with the death penalty, and the gap has grown since 1990."

originally posted by: kimar
a reply to: InTheLight

Yes, all those who wish death upon another human need to have their minds questioned.

Seriously?

www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

From the above site: "The murder rate in non-death penalty states has remained consistently lower than the rate in states with the death penalty, and the gap has grown since 1990."

Then that would include some of the most scholarly citizens.

"The committee concludes that the research to date on the effect of capital punishment on homicide is not informative about whether capital punishment decreases, increases, or has no effect on homicide rates. Therefore, the committee recommends that these studies not be used to inform deliberations requiring judgments about the effect of the death penalty on homicide. Consequently, claims that research demonstrates that capital punishment decreases or increases the homicide rate should not influence policy decisions about capital punishment."

www.politifact.com...

"Then that would include some of the most scholarly citizens."

Sadly, you are correct. As I stated before, to wish the death upon another human being is a symptom of a culture that celebrates death. This sad sickness touches all members of society, including intellectuals.

The facts of reality do not lie. As I have already proven, not only does the death penalty not deter murder, states without the death penalty have alower murder rate than states that do.

originally posted by: kimar
"Then that would include some of the most scholarly citizens."

Sadly, you are correct. As I stated before, to wish the death upon another human being is a symptom of a culture that celebrates death. This sad sickness touches all members of society, including intellectuals.

The facts of reality do not lie. As I have already proven, not only does the death penalty not deter murder, states without the death penalty have alower murder rate than states that do.

As per the committee's results as I posted above, reality in facts sometimes do lie.

As per my link below, if we use your reasoning, then the majority of U.S. society are mentally sick for wanting the death penalty as a consequence and/or deterrent.

www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

originally posted by: kimar
"Then that would include some of the most scholarly citizens."

Sadly, you are correct. As I stated before, to wish the death upon another human being is a symptom of a culture that celebrates death. This sad sickness touches all members of society, including intellectuals.

The facts of reality do not lie. As I have already proven, not only does the death penalty not deter murder, states without the death penalty have alower murder rate than states that do.

In my opinion death penalty should not be used to deter murder & other major crimes even though the law states it should. I consider myself an 'intellectual' member of society and I consider two of mankind greatest goods to be truth and justice. Justice should be served, always without reservations and political correctness. If that makes me a bad person in your eyes - so be it.

I look at this particular execution as true, majestic, cosmic justice. Karma baby. I really do. Perhaps it has nothing to do with it but I need to believe, since i don't really believe in God this is the only thing that keeps me going. A sense of universal justice for all.

This man let a woman suffocate to death, almost the same thing happened to him. The end.

a reply to: kimar

the death penalty does too deter crime.

there are people who would be dead today
but the death penalty deterred me from killing them.

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: kimar

the death penalty does too deter crime.

there are people who would be dead today
but the death penalty deterred me from killing them.

So, then, are you referring to murder as pre-meditated in cold blood, or via some sort of psychotic internal argument?