Oklahoma Botched Execution - Clayton Lockett took 45 Minutes to Die

originally posted by: Kram09
a reply to: NavyDoc

No, it's a demand for justice. I feel sympathy for people who cannot stand up for what is right and who seem to care more about the criminal than the victim.

That's a really lame argument and one I knew you'd use. It's akin to the "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" line of reasoning.


The victim is already dead. It's vengeance, not justice.

Murdering somebody in retaliation is not justice. In one sense you're doing the perpetrator a favour by ridding them of any remorse or guilt they may feel. They no longer have to live with what they've done, while the families don't have their loved one back and still have to think about it every day. Obviously, I'm sure some will gain satisfaction from the death of the murderer, but some perhaps can learn to forgive.

Forgiveness is difficult and is much easier said than done. An attribute of the strong.

No the strong take care of business and protect the weak. Letting an animal slide is the action of the weak, not the strong. We have wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs.

originally posted by: Kram09
I think something to ponder is whether people are born evil or are they shaped by circumstances or their upbringing or environment?

Were these people just intrinsically evil and rotten to the core? Even as a child?

There is good and evil in the world. That is a fact. All children start as innocent. Even people like Jeff Dahmer and Adolf Hitler were innocent once, but they definitely and undeniably ended up evil.

originally posted by: Kram09
a reply to: NavyDoc

No, it's a demand for justice. I feel sympathy for people who cannot stand up for what is right and who seem to care more about the criminal than the victim.

The victim is already dead. It's vengeance, not justice.

Murdering somebody in retaliation is not justice. In one sense you're doing the perpetrator a favour by ridding them of any remorse or guilt they may feel. They no longer have to live with what they've done, while the families don't have their loved one back and still have to think about it every day. Obviously, I'm sure some will gain satisfaction from the death of the murderer, but some perhaps can learn to forgive.

Forgiveness is difficult and is much easier said than done. An attribute of the strong.

You honestly think that animals like that feel remorse? That they feel guilt, after having been a rapist multiple times over the years over and over again. They don't. The only remorse they feel is that they got caught. Life isn't a movie on Oprah channel. There are very real and very evil predators out there. They feel no remorse, they give no mercy. Your point is naïve to the extreme. That man would not think twice to slit your throat if given the opportunity and you will not be able to reason with him, you won't be able to beg for your life--he does not give a # about you, your life, or your feelings.

That's a really lame argument and one I knew you'd use. It's akin to the "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" line of reasoning.

That's nonsense. He was tried found guilty appealed multiple times and found guilty every time. There is no "nothing to hide, nothing to fear." He was found guilty of some of the most heinous acts one can do on another human being.

a reply to: NavyDoc

You honestly think that animals like that feel remorse? That they feel guilt, after having been a rapist multiple times over the years over and over again. They don't. The only remorse they feel is that they got caught

I'm not talking specifically about that case, I'm speaking generally.

That man would not think twice to slit your throat if given the opportunity and you will not be able to reason with him, you won't be able to beg for your life

You don't know that for a fact.

he does not give a # about you, your life, or your feelings.

Then you clearly have something in common with him.

That's nonsense. He was tried found guilty appealed multiple times and found guilty every time.

Again, just to reiterate I'm not citing that case as an example in my posts. I'm not citing any specific examples, I'm just speaking generally in terms of the death penalty.

No the strong take care of business and protect the weak.

By "take care of business" you mean murdering people....which incidentally is what these people are on death row for in the first place.

Letting an animal slide is the action of the weak, not the strong. We have wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs.

Well, I have to say that's an interesting theory and you can choose to believe it if you wish.

a reply to: Kram09

Fair enough. I guess it might be helpful to point out that I'm not advocating execution for stealing to feed your family or shooting your wife's lover in a heat of passion but that there are some people so awful who do things so horrendous, that death is the only just punishment.

a reply to: FlyersFan

That's got to be a human rights violation.

Maybe the family won't even need a lawyer.

This is Stephanie Neiman. Clayton Lockett murdered her over her truck.
For all the bleeding hearts who are losing sleep over this execution. Cry me a river. He should have been burned slowly over hot coals for what he did.

Neiman was forced to watch as Lockett’s accomplice, Shawn Mathis, spent 20 minutes digging a shallow grave in a ditch beside the road. Her friends saw Neiman standing in the ditch and heard a single shot. Lockett returned to the truck because the gun had jammed. He later said he could hear Neiman pleading, “Oh God, please, please” as he fixed the shotgun. The men could be heard “laughing about how tough Stephanie was” before Lockett shot Neiman a second time. “He ordered Mathis to bury her, despite the fact that Mathis informed him Stephanie was still alive.”

www.frontpagemag.com...

originally posted by: Mikeultra

bleeding hearts

I'll never understand how this term is meant to be an insult. I would think that anyone who you describe as having a "bleeding heart" is showing more empathy and understanding of the preciousness of life than people, like yourself, who seem to think killing solves everything - and that torturing people before death is something to speak proudly of.

You appear to be no better than those you wish torture upon.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Mikeultra

bleeding hearts

I'll never understand how this term is meant to be an insult. I would think that anyone who you describe as having a "bleeding heart" is showing more empathy and understanding of the preciousness of life than people, like yourself, who seem to think killing solves everything - and that torturing people before death is something to speak proudly of.

SAY'S the person from a former penal colony maybe we should get some $15 flights for them it would save the cost of keeping a ANIMAL housed

originally posted by: douglas5

SAY'S the person from a former penal colony maybe we should get some $15 flights for them it would save the cost of keeping a ANIMAL housed

Oh my god, seriously?

No really, seriously?

Congratulations on having found a whole new low, one that is many orders of magnitude more ridiculous than the previous.

Lol.



Edit to add: Just in case (more likely in all probability) you are a little too slow to figure out what I meant by that post, just assume that anything you post from now on will be viewed, by me, as complete and total rubbish.

a reply to: Kryties
Really...? You don't know what a bleeding heart is? It's people who have their hearts broken when justice is carried out on criminal scumbags. Bleeding hearts are more heartbroken for the criminal, and have no empathy for the innocent victim. Is that clear enough for you? In the bleeding hearts mind, I'm worse than the criminal killer. Boo hoo. Give me a break... I like the idea of an eye for an eye. In this case it would be appropriate to blast both his kneecaps off and then bury him alive.

originally posted by: Mikeultra
Bleeding hearts are more heartbroken for the criminal, and have no empathy for the innocent victim.

I think I'll add you to the rubbish list too, for making nonsense up and trying to pass it off as intelligence.

a reply to: Mikeultra

Being incarcerated while counting down to your execution is punishment enough...to be killed in the manner this man did afterwards is fiendish overkill.

Don't get me wrong. I believe capital punishment is a useful crime deterrent as long as there is 100% certainty of guilt.

a reply to: reject
What do you think about how his victim died? Having to watch as her grave was dug? Made to stand in her grave.Being shot once with a shotgun, and waiting as her killer fixed the gun and being shot again. All the while pleading for her life. Then being buried alive. I have only concerns about how she suffered. Not the convict, he didn't suffer nearly enough.

originally posted by: Indigent
a reply to: Ironclad2000

To prove you aint a sub-human?

Proving you aren't sub-human is easy. Don't murder, torture, maim or rape other individuals for self gain or gratification. The world is full of sub-humans with the capacity to do these things at the tip of a hat and enjoy it.

To me, they are less than human. They are everywhere and at all levels of society, but still beneath the rest of us.

There are reasons to kill, but pleasure isn't one of them..!!

Just admit it was a botched death penalty execution which shouldn't be the norm, wasn't "justified", a good thing etc.

There should be investigation to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Even the death penalty isn't good enough for some ppl. If you want the death penalty at least be civil about the process.

a reply to: igor_ats

Sorry, never heard of a convicted murder killing their victim in a "civil" manner.

originally posted by: igor_ats
Just admit it was a botched death penalty execution which shouldn't be the norm, wasn't "justified", a good thing etc.

There should be investigation to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Even the death penalty isn't good enough for some ppl. If you want the death penalty at least be civil about the process.

You can't tell these people mate, they want their pound of flesh any way they can get it. They practically salivate at the thought of someone having been tortured to death, I even get the sense that some of them wish they were the ones doing the torturing.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: igor_ats
Just admit it was a botched death penalty execution which shouldn't be the norm, wasn't "justified", a good thing etc.

There should be investigation to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Even the death penalty isn't good enough for some ppl. If you want the death penalty at least be civil about the process.

You can't tell these people mate, they want their pound of flesh any way they can get it. They practically salivate at the though of someone having been tortured to death, I even get the sense that some of them wish they were the ones doing the torturing.

Seconded. I've been horrified by the degree of sadistic glee some people have expressed on this thread.

originally posted by: DustbowlDebutante I think if you kill or rape an adult, or hurt any child in any way, you should be kicked out of the gene pool permanently.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, we should include all kinds of recidivists as well because death isn't the only way to accomplish that.

It's the only way to breed out criminals.

a reply to: Mikeultra

You do understand the man's family may make a fortune off this, right?