Oklahoma Botched Execution - Clayton Lockett took 45 Minutes to Die

I have an issue with the death penalty, as alot of previously found guilty convictions are being turned over dure to DNA evidence.
What if there is someone that is killed via botched execution, only to be found actually innocent?
Not only was an innocent man killed, he suffered for it.

Think about it for a moment.

a reply to: HomerinNC

Think about it for a moment.

That's one thing many people in this thread aren't going to do.

a reply to: Kram09

Yeah, pretty much.
I love how some people will be screaming for someone's blood when charged and convicted; call them an animal and say how much the guy deserves torture and a painful death, yet the SAME people are the SAME ones that all of a sudden feel sympathy when his conviction is overturned....

originally posted by: HomerinNC
I have an issue with the death penalty, as alot of previously found guilty convictions are being turned over dure to DNA evidence.
What if there is someone that is killed via botched execution, only to be found actually innocent?
Not only was an innocent man killed, he suffered for it.

Think about it for a moment.

OTOH, thinking about it, that same technology can make us more certain that those we do execute are indeed guilty. Again, I'm not talking about executions for jaywalking or a mistake or an act of passion but for those who do horrendous things with pre-thought and meditation.

a reply to: NavyDoc

That I agree with 100%, make SURE that we are convicting a truly guilty person
I'm still against killing someone

a reply to: FlyersFan

Boo effing hoo.

there are four veins that the crime/punishment system is based on in America.

1. biblical eye for eye tooth for tooth. requires the person punished is 100% guilty

2. deterrence. not as important that the guilt is established 100%. the punishment will deter the remainder of society from crime.

3. restorative. punishment is community based to repair the torn fabric of society.

4. rehabilitative. the criminal is just ill and needs treatment and rehabilitation not punishment.

a reply to: whitewave
"4) The condemned don't NEED to know what drugs are used to kill them any more than they'd need to know whether a hanging rope was made of cotton or nylon. That's a non issue. " -whitewave

That is playing god my friend. If it were a barbed wire hanging rope is that humane? You have opinions??
I'll say again, in this circumstance the individuals crime is a non issue. It is about his rights being denied to him by the high court of OK.

"There are any number of drugs that will kill in high enough doses with minimal amount of victim suffering"
That is a ridiculously obtuse statement, In the case of a larger dose of insulin, more severe symptoms can include: Seizures, Coma, Disorientation, and pale skin. Any suggestions from "Dr.God"?
Who decides what constitutes "suffering" when you are killing a man. In strychnine poisonings, the patient appears unconscious when in reality, the fact is they are in severe pain.

a reply to: Acidx
looks like you are new here.

get a box of kleenex out for yourself.

the man is dead, and that is what the
state was employed to accomplish.

the problem was caused by the blood vessels in the mans own body rupturing.

too bad so sad, he is dead and buried, just like the 19 year old girl he raped, shot and buried alive.

a reply to: Acidx

the drugs were fine.
the problem is that the blood vessels in the condemned
mans arm blew out and ruptured so the drug was not
properly circulated by the mans heart to the kill zone in his body.

While I do support the death penalty, I only support limited use for extreme cases. For me, for a death sentance to be even considered in a case, the following criteria must be met:

1. The evidence against the convicted person is overwhelming, and solid links have been established and shown that the person was indeed guilty of the crime. Like, more than just DNA and fingerprints, prosecution needs to show irrefutable connection and proof, showing exactly how DNA/fingerprints/other evidence proved no one but the convicted did the deed. Circumstantial cases, no matter how compelling, should never be considered for capital punishment.

2. The crime was especially horrific, monstrous, and truly evil. Like, sexual and sadistic murders involving torture, mutilation, and abuse of victims before killing them. Also, any homicide and assault committed against particularly vulnerable groups, mainly crimes against children, the elderly, or disabled, fall under this category. Mass murders of any sort, whether spree killings or terrorist acts, also qualify, since murdering many people at a time, whatever the reason, is unusually horrific.

3. Some level of pre-meditation should be involved.

4. The convicted must be mentally competent. While people with Narcissism or Psychopathic personalities can be downright evil bastards, they are, by all definitions, sane and fully aware of their actions. They just don't care. And while people who have depression, anxiety, add, ect are mentally ill, they are still mentally competent and aware of reality and right vs wrong. However, people with schizophrenia, down syndrome, or some sort of psychosis or major mental/developmental disorder that either limits their total mental functioning and reasoning, or causes total detachment from reality. A guy who goes and shoots up a school yard full of kids because voices inside his head from God told him that the children's souls were being eaten by aliens, and he had to free them by shooting them, is not himself really evil. His mind was truly sick. The dude definitely needs to be locked up for the rest of his life in a place for the criminally insane, but I do not think it right to execute him. He is not in control of himself. he can't. His mind, which is the computer that runs the factory that is his body, is loaded with viruses, spyware, bugs, and technical issues. That is why it is sending faulty messages to the machinery, causing it all to malfunction.

Using this analogy, if the same guy shot up a yard full of kids simply because they were a different color, or were making too much noise that he couldn't listen to Jerry Springer across the street, or because bloody dead bodies of children gave him sexual arousal, or because he wanted attention....that is a person who is sane, just evil and twisted.

That said, when it comes to executions, those who fit the criteria, if their execution gets botched, well, yeah it sucks, and while we are attempting to show more kindness than the condemned did their victims, I'm not really gonna get too teary eyed if it gets screwed up once in a while. Especially for crimes involving sex, because those are often the most evil ones of all, seemingly driven by every single deadly sin at once.

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
While I do support the death penalty, I only support limited use for extreme cases. For me, for a death sentance to be even considered in a case, the following criteria must be met:

1. The evidence against the convicted person is overwhelming, and solid links have been established and shown that the person was indeed guilty of the crime. Like, more than just DNA and fingerprints, prosecution needs to show irrefutable connection and proof, showing exactly how DNA/fingerprints/other evidence proved no one but the convicted did the deed. Circumstantial cases, no matter how compelling, should never be considered for capital punishment.

2. The crime was especially horrific, monstrous, and truly evil. Like, sexual and sadistic murders involving torture, mutilation, and abuse of victims before killing them. Also, any homicide and assault committed against particularly vulnerable groups, mainly crimes against children, the elderly, or disabled, fall under this category. Mass murders of any sort, whether spree killings or terrorist acts, also qualify, since murdering many people at a time, whatever the reason, is unusually horrific.

3. Some level of pre-meditation should be involved.

4. The convicted must be mentally competent. While people with Narcissism or Psychopathic personalities can be downright evil bastards, they are, by all definitions, sane and fully aware of their actions. They just don't care. And while people who have depression, anxiety, add, ect are mentally ill, they are still mentally competent and aware of reality and right vs wrong. However, people with schizophrenia, down syndrome, or some sort of psychosis or major mental/developmental disorder that either limits their total mental functioning and reasoning, or causes total detachment from reality. A guy who goes and shoots up a school yard full of kids because voices inside his head from God told him that the children's souls were being eaten by aliens, and he had to free them by shooting them, is not himself really evil. His mind was truly sick. The dude definitely needs to be locked up for the rest of his life in a place for the criminally insane, but I do not think it right to execute him. He is not in control of himself. he can't. His mind, which is the computer that runs the factory that is his body, is loaded with viruses, spyware, bugs, and technical issues. That is why it is sending faulty messages to the machinery, causing it all to malfunction.

Using this analogy, if the same guy shot up a yard full of kids simply because they were a different color, or were making too much noise that he couldn't listen to Jerry Springer across the street, or because bloody dead bodies of children gave him sexual arousal, or because he wanted attention....that is a person who is sane, just evil and twisted.

That said, when it comes to executions, those who fit the criteria, if their execution gets botched, well, yeah it sucks, and while we are attempting to show more kindness than the condemned did their victims, I'm not really gonna get too teary eyed if it gets screwed up once in a while. Especially for crimes involving sex, because those are often the most evil ones of all, seemingly driven by every single deadly sin at once.

how are you going to apply all of these complicated rules at 230 am in the morning after being rudely interrupted and awakened from sleep by both your front and rear door being kicked in at the same time??
And as you realize it is not a dream you hear your two grade school aged children screaming.

so how are you going to apply all of your complicated constipated rules???

A gun is like a parachute. If you suddenly need one and do not have one, you will never need one again.


here is my rule for death penalty: invade my space and i will kill you.

that is the simple rule applied in the death penalty for these two criminals in the act of committing a crime.

I'd like to inject the words of the mother, Shonda Waller, who's baby was murdered by Charles Warner, the man who was supposed to be executed after Clayton Lockett but was stayed because of the botched execution. They're incredible.

"[The execution] would dishonor my daughter. It would dishonor me and everything I believe in. I wouldn’t want to have to know about something like that, because I wouldn’t want to know that my hand or what I went through personally is the reason why he is no longer living. When he dies I want it to be because it’s his time, not because he’s been executed because due to what happened to me and my child."

Source: www.democracynow.org...

These words said by this brave and beautiful woman after the horror and torment that she went through make the comments made by some on this thread even more pitiful and disgusting.

To desire the death of another human being under any circumstance is wrong.

a reply to: kimar

i have worked in a prison and can attest to the
fact that the execution was deserved. both
Clayton and Charles Warner deserve the death sentence.

who are you to say that
"To desire the death of another
human being under any circumstance is wrong. "

who died and made you God?

besides the decision to kill Charles Warner is not the
mother of the victim's choice to make---
it is the state of Oklahoma's to make.

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: kimar

i have worked in a prison and can attest to the
fact that the execution was deserved. both
Clayton and Charles Warner deserve the death sentence.

who are you to say that
"To desire the death of another
human being under any circumstance is wrong. "

who died and made you God?

besides the decision to kill Charles Warner is not the
mother of the victim's choice to make---
it is the state of Oklahoma's to make.

Well said.

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: kimar

i have worked in a prison and can attest to the
fact that the execution was deserved. both
Clayton and Charles Warner deserve the death sentence.

who are you to say that
"To desire the death of another
human being under any circumstance is wrong. "

who died and made you God?

besides the decision to kill Charles Warner is not the
mother of the victim's choice to make---
it is the state of Oklahoma's to make.

The fact that they had/have been sentenced to death is not the issue here. This is not a thread about the death penalty. This is a thread about the fact that the prison authorities botched the execution. The State should not indulge itself in what amounts to torture - it should provide a fast and humane version of the death penalty.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

the state did their job.
they followed the protocol for lethal injection.

what botched the lethal injection was the murders veins.

the fault was the veins of the condemned man ruptured.
this prevented the lethal drugs from properly entering his
blood stream where his heart could
circulate/pump the drugs to their intended organ.

it would be similar to a hanging where the hanged man
was not dropped far enough to break his neck.
or a firing squad where everyone missed the heart.
or like the electrocution on the movie "The Green Mile"
where conduction was not present.

every method of death by capital punishment has a failure rate to it.
get a box of kleenex out and weep for the
19 year old girl he raped, shot and buried alive.

better yet, go and talk to the family of the murdered 19 year old girl.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: kimar

i have worked in a prison and can attest to the
fact that the execution was deserved. both
Clayton and Charles Warner deserve the death sentence.

who are you to say that
"To desire the death of another
human being under any circumstance is wrong. "

who died and made you God?

besides the decision to kill Charles Warner is not the
mother of the victim's choice to make---
it is the state of Oklahoma's to make.

The fact that they had/have been sentenced to death is not the issue here. This is not a thread about the death penalty. This is a thread about the fact that the prison authorities botched the execution. The State should not indulge itself in what amounts to torture - it should provide a fast and humane version of the death penalty.

s't happens.
got the desired results, didn't they?

he was sentenced to death, remember?

want to see some vids of other countries death penalty executions?

a reply to: spirited75

I am not God, hence my knowing that I have no right to take a life no matter what. You claim to have the powers to know when one should die, so who made you God?

The wish of another's death is a symptom of living in a sick culture where death is celebrated. From state sanctioned torture to the invasion and occupation of Iraq, from Abu Ghraib to the endless drone strikes that have killed more than 200 children since 2009 alone - and these are just very recent examples, mind you - it is no wonder the sanctimonious, hate-filled, short sighted comments on this thread.

We need more love and understanding in this world.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

this is copied from your post.

This is a thread about the fact that the prison authorities botched the execution.
The State should not indulge itself in what amounts to torture -
it should provide a fast and humane version of the death penalty.

The botched execution was a result of
poor veins and arteries of Clayton Lockett.
Or divine comedic intervention.