The bible is the bait and hook the "devil" uses to get you.

a reply to: DarknStormy

Yes it is a firm belief of mine that if Jesus existed, he developed a large cult of personality through the application of the telephone game over a rather large area. Couple that with no information control or measures in place to tell the truth, and things got out of hand quickly.

a reply to: DarknStormy

There's a line of thought, that can be traced to St Paul, that says that Jesus was the reincarnation of Melchizedek.

The Mormons use the Seal of Melchizedek in their temples, and on their underwear too I think, and it's very symbolic to them. Joseph Smith elegantly weaves his reincarnation theory into the Mormon scriptures. They see Jesus' father, also Satan's father, as an entity that spiritually evolved from a mortal human being, lives on another planet and uses angels and other spiritual entities, ie Jesus and Satan, to communicate with us humans. Good men reincarnate and are given their own planets. Bad people reincarnate to become the flora and fauna of the new glorious planets. The flora and fauna are also allowed to spiritually evolve and reincarnate.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
lupodigubbio, earlier in the thread I asked you if Satan could cast out Satan?

I apologize, I must have missed it. Not sure how this question relates to the topic though, I think the context of those verses is about demonic possession and how the Pharisees were looking for excuses to get Jesus out of the way. In this particular case, the excuse was that he exorcised the demons by the power of The Devil and not the holy spirit.

So, how does this relate to what I've written? The bible was written by men, some inspired by the light, others by the dark side, others by their own agendas. The devil won't cast itself out because it's a dumb strategy.

Now, what 40k plus denomination religion does this verse remind you of? Which popular "house" is divided against itself?

"Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand"

I think about this topic from time to time. The recurring thought I have is about the ancient Sumerian religion where the serpent knowledge bringer is considered to be a benevolent loving god and the god that keeps them in the garden and demands constant praise is malevolent (same god that caused the flood)

Unless the translations I've read are wrong about the above, Sumerian texts precede the bible and should be used as a comparative basis as to figuring out what is what.

That being said, I don't really believe in any of it, either side of the argument, but I like to dissect things like this.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: LittleByLittle

You will never get a decent response from a Sunni Muslim, when they are not discrediting religious texts they are like a delusional Christian, they take everything literally and have a very hard time with critical spiritual thinking. If Islam told them a flying Orca Whale was coming in the future, they would have their eyes on the sky everyday waiting for one to arrive where a Shia Muslim understands that the flying Orca whale is nothing more than a Symbol of something else and shouldn't be taken literally. There is more to the religion than what is read and the same can be said for all the religions. Without reflective spiritual thinking, you will never get an answer though.

I can relate to what you write and think you are correct for a big segment of people who think of them as Sunni Muslim. It is part of the indoctrination that they are taught by culture and Saudi Arabian controlled view in symbiosis against the individual believer. I do think there are Sunni Muslim who can see thru the indoctrination.

I do think some Shia are also stuck in lower level spiritual understanding. Some Shias are spot on even if I think some of their ideas sometimes are questionable.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

This is one of those things which I think could of been changed to fit the Roman agenda. Ancient Egyptians were Sun Worshippers and I would say the Roman Pagans could fall under the same banner. Maybe it was them that introduced the reincarnation thing to Christianity? But at the same time I'm not saying it's correct either.

In a way I think of them as light(energy) Worshippers not just the sun. From my point of view the spiritual tools are more in your face in Ancient Egyptian than in Christianity. But then all religions in one form or another worship the light/chi from source.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

External source being God, gods, entities outside of any human involved with the cult. Then it's no longer an empty cult, it's a religion.

Also mainstream "historians" have created a traditional school of thought that is partially incorrect. There is evidence and absurd "coincidences" to dispute their claims but they just ignore and attack people contradicting their established version of "ancient history", it's a cover-up perpetuated by people that are ignorant.

They got the Giza story all wrong, they also got their ice age story wrong. There was a massive cataclysm that their is evidence for, a flood. You would be silly to dispute it.

a reply to: Oannes

So you're telling me that the west is just unlucky having the Torah be its' defacto creation story when it was false and that the more complete truth was actually preserved by a people whom God allowed to be made low and nearly completely erased from modern culture?



Sounds like that God is pretty weak, what a softie. I'll stick with my God.

satan is always counterfeit… the occult use the geometry and intelligence of the creation for selfish ends…

watch: YT Transformations 1
youtu.be...

The cleverest trick Satan ever pulled was to convince you that Atheists don't exist.

a reply to: lupodigubbio

I starred and flagged this thread when it was fresh up, av had to go out so haven`t caught up on about the last 10 pages, (that escalated quickly lol), anyways, ma first thoughts were something I saw on another site sometime earlier in the week.

It was about graffiti carved into a wall at a nazi camp by someone who was about to meet their maker so to say, I can`t remember the full story, but he carved,

When I die and meet God, He will have to beg me for my forgivness.

It`s stuck in ma head since I read it.

In my opinion, the God from the OT was not a nice fella!!!! At All!!!!

So before I read the rest of the thread, at the mo, I could well see the God from the OT being satan in drag as you put it.

a reply to: lupodigubbio

Hi, you mention God, Satan and then use the example of the bible to make your point, and as I anticipated here come the responses from people who identify themselves as Christians, and responses from those who are anti-Christian talking "Christ and Jesus".

Where are responses from Jews? Where is their indignation on the matter? After all, the Old Testament comprises the majority of the bible, and if you go into many Jewish homes you will find the old testament in their cabinet divorced of the new testament. The new testament is the only book that should be relevant to Christians.

It is the old testament actually that is supportive of any points you have to make upon the God of the bible or Satan as the foundations are laid out right in Genesis - a Jewish doctrine.

How is that Jewish posters are so quick to lobby the moderators to get a thread closed which they feel threatening to their perceived identity (singular) and collective ego, when a thread like this is claiming THEIR G-D is Satan in disguise? And the only ones to come running to the defence of G-D are Christians?

a reply to: lupodigubbio

I came to ATS with the same idea in mind.

Then I started reading and participating in the discussions...

It didn't take me long realize just how stupid my idea was.

I pray that it doesn't take you long either.

Some will make the connection that if the devil doesn't exist then God doesn't either.

Satan said not to kill? To love your neighbors? To turn the other cheek? To not lie, cheat or steal? To not worship false idols? To love your parents? To love your one and only creator? Strange he would give such good advice, no? He also warns that he will come to deceive us. All those good virtues are in the holy books. Those who stray from them did not follow the teachings, deliberately or were tricked/lied to/misled/deceived.

Why is history such a mess? If you don't know where you came from, chances are you will be go in the wrong direction.

All those that say "religion causes war" are wrong. If you apply religion the first rule is DON'T KILL, some how religion says the contrary right? It is like saying cigarets kill people, the person lights up that cigaret with their free will not the cigaret that lights itself and flies into your mouth. People kill people because of their poor choices.

Free will is the most misunderstood aspect of ourselves; humanity. I think that is the challenge of our existence, to know thyself and to know what is righteous, to walk in the light of God. Why are those teachings so hard to follow? Is it because the devil made them or is it because the devil is throwing all he has to confuse us?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Logarock

Now in all seriousness if you don't understand those basic differences why are you even commenting? You don't even understand the differences of these basic issues and yet are engaging in criticism?

Excuse me?

In all seriousness, I know exactly what the 'basic differences are', and I am commenting because I have a right to do so, whether you like it or not.

The revivification of corpses is asinine. The concept of reincarnation is far, far older than "Christianity" - and your 'hellfire and brimstone' fear-mongering and coercion is simply the self-loathing and control that fundamentalist sects push onto people. To keep them ashamed.

I don't give a rat's ass what the Nicene Council (a bunch of MEN) decided...they were called to stop bickering (for all the good that did). The concept of reincarnation - being REBORN via the WOMB, remains alive and well.

If YOU can't understand that it predates your "Christ", that Jesus was a Jew, an Essene, and Jews believed in the concept, then why are you responding to me?

Do you think I'm a child? A damned pagan? A filthy hippy? An uneducated bumpkin?
I'm a middle-aged Baby Boomer who has been aware of what you condescending, smug "Christians" call "New Age Woowoo" for over 4 decades. I was raised a Nicene-parrot. I left it as soon as I figured out what a crock it was and that I was 'lying' when I recited it.

Jeez, dude. Let me hold the reins while you dismount your high holy horse...
*lets the horse loose and urges it away at a gallop*

now, look me in the eyes.

There. NOW - do you have anything else to insult me with?

Corpses will not be raised back to their former bodies. There is ample proof of reincarnation. There is NO PROOF of Elijah never having died, or of long-dead 'saints' being restored to their original 'bodies. And Jesus is not "coming back riding on a cloud".

I cant believe this. You called someone a liar and then say "excuse me" when you get a retort. And then get off here without a manners and decorum violation. I mean just look at this rambling over someone disagreeing with you. How dare me.

As far as the disagreement here I was simply relating to you to the book says and how it is different from reincarnation.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: DarknStormy

There's a line of thought, that can be traced to St Paul, that says that Jesus was the reincarnation of Melchizedek.

The Mormons use the Seal of Melchizedek in their temples, and on their underwear too I think, and it's very symbolic to them. Joseph Smith elegantly weaves his reincarnation theory into the Mormon scriptures. They see Jesus' father, also Satan's father, as an entity that spiritually evolved from a mortal human being, lives on another planet and uses angels and other spiritual entities, ie Jesus and Satan, to communicate with us humans. Good men reincarnate and are given their own planets. Bad people reincarnate to become the flora and fauna of the new glorious planets. The flora and fauna are also allowed to spiritually evolve and reincarnate.

But Paul didn't say Jesus was a reincarnation of Melchizedek and you don't have to post the passage. And Joe Smith? Anyone that even understands the bible a little tiny bit wouldn't even quote that guy in a serious discussion on reincarnation or anything! Oh yes I know this isn't a serious conversation.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: DarknStormy

Its probably even older than that.
And it's definitely part of the mythology that the Christians usurped and tried to change around in order to control people.
The origins of it are lost in time now, but Eastern thought has held to is since long before Jesus. (As if he didn't teach it - which he did).

Jesus did not teach reincarnation in an eastern method, a modified method or any method or likeness at all. Nothing was changed around, borrowed, affixed or dovetailed into christianity from the concept of reincarnation.

a reply to: Logarock

There's some pretty prominent Mormons that don't care what you think: Cliven Bundy, Mitt Romney and Harry Reid, just to name a few.

I wouldn't dismiss the Mormons as fools so readily.

a reply to: Logarock

Jesus did not teach reincarnation in an eastern method, a modified method or any method or likeness at all. Nothing was changed around, borrowed, affixed or dovetailed into christianity from the concept of reincarnation.

Excuse me (us) if I (we) don't accept your authoritative stance on this issue. Your opinion is just that, your opinion.

There's more than enough evidence to prove that early Christians accepted reincarnation. But, if you think you can prove otherwise, you should make a thread on it.