This Epitomizes Why Abortion Is Wrong !

a reply to: WarminIndy

You're already paying for those parents' bad decisions by putting your tax dollars toward orphanages, you would be paying less if it were birth control. Why should a woman have the right to have as many children as she wants all while not having to raise them because of adoption/orphanages? Why can't a woman have the equal right to prevent that child from having an unhappy life through abortion or birth control?

You're willing to pay for bad decisions in a more expensive way when you could be paying less? That doesn't make any sense. Your argument basically defeats itself.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

You're already paying for those parents' bad decisions by putting your tax dollars toward orphanages, you would be paying less if it were birth control. Why should a woman have the right to have as many children as she wants all while not having to raise them because of adoption/orphanages? Why can't a woman have the equal right to prevent that child from having an unhappy life through abortion or birth control?

You're willing to pay for bad decisions in a more expensive way when you could be paying less? That doesn't make any sense. Your argument basically defeats itself.

I am asking you to be financially responsible for me destroying my human liver.

I am not asking whether or not we are already paying. Will you come and be financially responsible for my choice to destroy my liver? That's all I am asking, is just your help and support in my choice.

Are you willing to pay for my drinks at the bar every weekend for the next 18 years? It's my choice, right? You support my choice, right? Then it's only right that you support me financially, because I'm too poor to afford it on my own.

a reply to: butcherguy

You may want to rethink that. That mindset is the reason for the factory farming industry we have today.

a reply to: WarminIndy

This is one of the most desperate attempts to make a point that I have seen in a long time.

Comparing drinking to abortion? Good lord people....how do you come up with this stuff.

For the record, though, my tax dollars fund substance abuse treatment. So yes, I do pay for it.

Ouch....that had to hurt.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Isn't this already the case with welfare?

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

organ |ˈôrgən|
noun
1 Biology a part of an organism that is typically self-contained and has a specific vital function, such as the heart or liver in humans.
• a department or organization that performs a specified function: the central organs of administration and business.
• a medium of communication, esp. a newspaper or periodical that serves a particular organization, political party, etc.: an article in the official organ of the Salvation Army.
• (used euphemistically) the penis.
• archaic a region of the brain formerly held to be the seat of a particular faculty.
2 (also pipe organ)a large musical instrument having rows of tuned pipes sounded by compressed air, and played using one or more keyboards to produce a wide range of musical effects. The pipes are generally arranged in ranks of a particular type, each controlled by a stop, and often into larger sets linked to separate keyboards.
• an electronic keyboard instrument that produces sounds similar to those of a pipe organ. See also reed organ.

person |ˈpərsən|
noun (pl. people |ˈpēpəl| or persons)
1 a human being regarded as an individual: the porter was the last person to see her | she is a person of astonishing energy.
• used in legal or formal contexts to refer to an unspecified individual: the entrance fee is $10.00 per person.
• [ in sing. with modifier ] an individual characterized by a preference or liking for a specified thing: she's not a cat person.
• an individual's body: I have publicity photographs on my person at all times.
• a character in a play or story: his previous roles in the person of a fallible cop.
2 Grammar a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker (first person), the addressee (second person), or a third party (third person).
3 Christian Theology each of the three modes of being of God, namely the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, who together constitute the Trinity.

When does an organ become a person?

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

organ |ˈôrgən|
noun
1 Biology a part of an organism that is typically self-contained and has a specific vital function, such as the heart or liver in humans.
• a department or organization that performs a specified function: the central organs of administration and business.
• a medium of communication, esp. a newspaper or periodical that serves a particular organization, political party, etc.: an article in the official organ of the Salvation Army.
• (used euphemistically) the penis.
• archaic a region of the brain formerly held to be the seat of a particular faculty.
2 (also pipe organ)a large musical instrument having rows of tuned pipes sounded by compressed air, and played using one or more keyboards to produce a wide range of musical effects. The pipes are generally arranged in ranks of a particular type, each controlled by a stop, and often into larger sets linked to separate keyboards.
• an electronic keyboard instrument that produces sounds similar to those of a pipe organ. See also reed organ.

person |ˈpərsən|
noun (pl. people |ˈpēpəl| or persons)
1 a human being regarded as an individual: the porter was the last person to see her | she is a person of astonishing energy.
• used in legal or formal contexts to refer to an unspecified individual: the entrance fee is $10.00 per person.
• [ in sing. with modifier ] an individual characterized by a preference or liking for a specified thing: she's not a cat person.
• an individual's body: I have publicity photographs on my person at all times.
• a character in a play or story: his previous roles in the person of a fallible cop.
2 Grammar a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker (first person), the addressee (second person), or a third party (third person).
3 Christian Theology each of the three modes of being of God, namely the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, who together constitute the Trinity.

When does an organ become a person?

When did eggs and sperm become human? Read above posts. You will get the idea of why I said that.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to: WarminIndy

This is one of the most desperate attempts to make a point that I have seen in a long time.

Comparing drinking to abortion? Good lord people....how do you come up with this stuff.

For the record, though, my tax dollars fund substance abuse treatment. So yes, I do pay for it.

Ouch....that had to hurt.

Nope, it's about CHOICES.

If you defend the right for people to make CHOICES then you should be willing to support my CHOICE. That's what you guys are talking about, unless you don't really mean that I have the right to choose.

But I choose to ask you to pay for it, I choose to ask you to make laws that will force you to pay for it. I choose that you recognize my choice in where I drink, how much I drink and if I can't pay, then you are to pay for it. Those are my choices, that you have given me the right to do.

Are you balking at my choice? You mean you don't want to be forced to pay for my choice?

a reply to: WarminIndy

You're asking us to do something that's already being done. You can spend welfare money on whatever you like, alcohol included. There are even laws called the tax code that force us to pay for those things.

You're not making a very good case for yourself.

a reply to: WarminIndy

When did eggs and sperm become human? Read above posts. You will get the idea of why I said that.

According to the definition of person, a person is a person as soon as its an individual.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

You're asking us to do something that's already being done. You can spend welfare money on whatever you like, alcohol included. There are even laws called the tax code that force us to pay for those things.

You're not making a very good case for yourself.

I think you are trying to cleverly dance around the point you know I am making.

I am not talking about the consequences, I am talking about YOU supporting MY choice to drink every weekend, and you pay for it. I am asking you to be willing to make that sacrifice of yourself to be willing to put your money where your mouth is, and pay for my drinks.

Otherwise, it has now become an argument on limits of irresponsible behavior. So you are not willing? Then you aren't supportive of my choice in demanding the law accommodate me in that. So it only matters when it directly affects you, but you can't come out and say no, because if you say no then it means that you can't support all choices.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to: WarminIndy

This is one of the most desperate attempts to make a point that I have seen in a long time.

Comparing drinking to abortion? Good lord people....how do you come up with this stuff.

For the record, though, my tax dollars fund substance abuse treatment. So yes, I do pay for it.

Ouch....that had to hurt.

Nope, it's about CHOICES.

If you defend the right for people to make CHOICES then you should be willing to support my CHOICE. That's what you guys are talking about, unless you don't really mean that I have the right to choose.

But I choose to ask you to pay for it, I choose to ask you to make laws that will force you to pay for it. I choose that you recognize my choice in where I drink, how much I drink and if I can't pay, then you are to pay for it. Those are my choices, that you have given me the right to do.

Are you balking at my choice? You mean you don't want to be forced to pay for my choice?

I already explained: I am forced to pay for your choice. My tax dollars pay for treatment. For medical bills. For all the repercussions of your drinking.

Therefore, you desperate attempt to make a point is moot and irrelevant.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Not everyone thinks abortion is a bad thing, most everyone (if not everyone) would agree that alcohol in excess is a bad thing.

You're trying to compare apples and oranges here. Alcoholism isn't related to abortion or birth control in any way, shape, or form.

Welfare is already in place that covers what you say, so are tax dollars that are being put toward substance abuse programs. Do I agree with someone drinking themselves to death? Of course not, but there's really no avoiding it anyways, unless of course you completely remove the safety net.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

Not everyone thinks abortion is a bad thing, most everyone (if not everyone) would agree that alcohol in excess is a bad thing.

You're trying to compare apples and oranges here. Alcoholism isn't related to abortion or birth control in any way, shape, or form.

Welfare is already in place that covers what you say, so are tax dollars that are being put toward substance abuse programs. Do I agree with someone drinking themselves to death? Of course not, but there's really no avoiding it anyways, unless of course you completely remove the safety net.

Nope, that is a matter of moral relevance.

Just because you say abortion is not about moral relevance but drinking is, then you have just described moral relevance, which goes back to the point Adjensen made about "desire".

And was I talking about the repercussions or consequences? Suppose a young woman gets pregnant three times a year for 10 years and aborts the babies every time. Are you willing to pay for her choice?

That's 30 abortions from one person that you are paying for. But since you are talking about excess, which I wasn't, then wouldn't choosing 30 abortions in 10 years be excessive?

But you don't support the choice of someone drinking themselves to death. Kind of picking and choosing when it comes to choices.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Isn't the topic about moral relevance though? It wasn't about the legality of it until it was turned that way after the OP.

Anyways, say abortions do become illegal and so does birth control, why would you want to take that option away from women? If they want an abortion they will find a way to do it, including using a coat hanger. Not as safe as the professional method and far more dangerous.

Should I have to pay for someone else's abortion? Hell no, but am I willing to pay for something that will prevent them from happening such as birth control pills? Yes. It's much cheaper than sending a kid to an orphanage and much safer than women trying to perform an abortion on themselves.

Should women have the right to get an abortion? Yes. Should they have to pay for it themselves? Absolutely. If you cut down the safety net (taxes paying for birth control) and let yourself fall through, you should suffer the financial consequences.

I am going to stir the fire a bit.

Where do you all stand on a woman's right to drink alcohol to excess throughout her pregnancy?
OR heroin, meth....
Or sniffing glue.

a reply to: butcherguy

She has that right, but she should know that it will end up hurting herself and her baby in the end.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: butcherguy

She has that right, but she should know that it will end up hurting herself and her baby in the end.

No way of telling if it will be a baby until it takes a breath.
I say she can do what she wants.
But that's the libertarian in me.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

Isn't the topic about moral relevance though? It wasn't about the legality of it until it was turned that way after the OP.

Anyways, say abortions do become illegal and so does birth control, why would you want to take that option away from women?

When my wife was about 3 months pregnant with my youngest son, she stood in stood in front of me with a knife in her hand and screamed "I WILL KILL THIS MOTHER F!@#$R RIGHT NOW!!!" She was referring to my son, and all because I forgot to take the trash out that morning.

That's why I want to take away their right to choose. Hormonal psychopaths that crave paint chips and laundry soap shouldn't have that kind of power. Nobody should.

a reply to: Bone75

So your wife wouldn't have said that or thought about doing that if there were laws against it? I don't understand the logic here.

Laws against murder haven't stopped anyone from murdering someone else so far. There are thousands of murders every year despite laws against it so I don't understand how outlawing abortion would have stopped your wife from doing that. You're ALWAYS going to have people who do things like that, no matter what laws are in place.

I'm sorry you had to experience that though, I'm sure it had to be rough on you. I assume she didn't go through with it, if so thank God for your own sakes.