NJ Public School sued over "Under God" in Pledge of Allegiance

originally posted by: rickynews
This nation was founded under God, and the Constitution clearly indicates that our Rights are given to us By Our Creator (and certainly not by the government). In Communism, there is no God (atheism) and only the government grants rights.

I think you are confusing the Declaration of Independence with the United States Constitution. The preamble of the Constitution reads as follows:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The Constitution makes no mention of Deity.

There is no movement in the United States of America for a "Christian Theocracy". There is indeed an "Atheist Movement" well underway so as to remove Christianity, Judaism, Muslim and any other faiths that believe in an Almighty God.

With this frivolous lawsuit, guess who's rights are threatened and being trampled upon?
Answer: Those who believe in God.

Question: Do the Majority of Americans believe in God and/or Creator ?
Answer: Yes

a reply to: peter vlar

i will reply too only one of the examples u site.

i quote "equal rights for women".
I always found it interesting that when J.D Rockfeller was asked why he supported Women's Sufferage Movement,
he replied,, :"Why then the Government can TAX both." unquote.

Taxation man and womens slave collar. And believe me, this collar ain't prejudiced.

Just to further clarify my position on te dangers of a Christian theocracy, take a look at what happened in Brittain after HenryVIII decided to break with Rome. There was a couple centuries of war between the Protestants and Catholics. Yes, at the time GB was a theocracy because the king or queen was also the head of the Church of England. Lets look at the inquisitions that began in the 13th century. I know, I ow..lyoure thinking ole vlar has finally cracked because how the hell does something from that long ago have any pertinence on today's world. Easy... Most of you have no idea that the inquisitions lasted up until around 1824 IIRC. When any one religion becomes the supreme law of the land, and whether you want to or are willing to admit it, it is exactly what the vast majority of American Christians would prefer, but when tat appens it never ends up ll for non believers.

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: crazyewok
And I still fail to see what god should have any link to the USA as a nation anyway?

As I said before, he not exactly one to take sides with nations since Jesus.

What's next on the Atheist Agenda? Restricting or removing the word God in stadiums across this great nation, as we sing the song "America The Beautiful"? Yea Ok, good luck with that...

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America! God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

O beautiful for pilgrim feet,
Whose stern impassion'd stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America! God mend thine ev'ry flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law!

O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved,
And mercy more than life!
America! America! May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness,
And ev'ry gain divine!

O Beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam,
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America! God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

What's the point? No need to get anal retentive about it. Songs are one thing, schools and government another.

America the Beautiful is both taught and sung by children in Public Schools across this nation.

They also sing Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. And Frosty the Snowman. A song is just a song. We don't depend on songs to study the universe or develop medicine or build automobiles or improve our agricultural prowess or design architecture or formulate economic strategies. When theology is incorporated into those processes as justification for...erm, what were the words again? Oh right:

progress for the sake of progress must be discouraged. Let us preserve what must be preserved, perfect what can be perfected and prune practices that ought to be... prohibited!

...As borrowed from the infamous welcome speech of Dolores Umbridge. Some of you may have heard of her. Entirely fictional, but very much applicable in this context. Please do not misunderstand me - I'm not talking about banning children from quietly bowing their heads and thanking their chosen higher power for the blessings they have received. I am talking about using such practices as a stepping stone by which to ingrain the complementary doctrines of such practices to the point where their critical cognitive faculties are impaired, perpetuating the ignorance observed in many of today's scientists and political leaders. We are trying to improve the future, not repeat the present and past.

a reply to: rickynews

Keep those blinders on if it helps you sleep better at night. But the facts are that aside from the most militant of atheists, the rest of us could care less if you pray to the brown streak in your underwear. I spent too much time in the army with morons shoving Jesus down my throat, I have no need for it or him in my life to be a good person let alone a good shot.

a reply to: peter vlar

" HenryVIII decided to break with Rome." wow u do like too skew your sources,, how about the chopping women's heads off left ,right, and centre???

hey i thought u were a womens rights champ, but common,,,really????????? lol

originally posted by: rickynews
This nation was founded under God,

Who says?

Humans?

I don't think God put his signature down on the US constitution.

originally posted by: rickynews
To the contrary, an Atheistic society is a road map to Communism.

Not all Atheists are communists you know.

Im not a Atheist but I understand the principle that not all Atheists are communist. It the most stupid and paranoid cold war mumbo jumbo I heard!

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: rickynews
This nation was founded under God, and the Constitution clearly indicates that our Rights are given to us By Our Creator (and certainly not by the government). In Communism, there is no God (atheism) and only the government grants rights.

I think you are confusing the Declaration of Independence with the United States Constitution. The preamble of the Constitution reads as follows:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The Constitution makes no mention of Deity.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident...all men are... endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men."
Our Declaration of Independence acknowledges a Creator as the source of the unalienable rights that governments are formed to secure. This acknowledgement was the very foundation of the Constitution of the United States of America.

What are those unalienable rights with which we are endowed? They may be described in many ways, but English jurist Sir William Blackstone wrote in 1766, ".these may be reduced to three principal articles:

the right of personal security (life);
the right of personal liberty; and,
the right of private property.."
America's written Constitution was to protect and secure God-given individual rights to life, liberty, and property. If we ever allow this foundation to be eroded and lose faith that these rights are a gift directly from God to each individual, then we lose the basis of the greatness of the miracle of America.

source: National Center for Constitutional Studies
posting at: www.nccs.net...

a reply to: peter vlar

"shoving Jesus down my throat" curious which part of Jesus did they shove?

originally posted by: rickynews
There is no movement in the United States of America for a "Christian Theocracy". There is indeed an "Atheist Movement" well underway so as to remove Christianity, Judaism, Muslim and any other faiths that believe in an Almighty God.

With this frivolous lawsuit, guess who's rights are threatened and being trampled upon?
Answer: Those who believe in God.

Question: Do the Majority of Americans believe in God and/or Creator ?
Answer: Yes

All I see is people trying to remove religion from government.

And that's a good thing.

Religion is for your private life and at home, not for being part of the government.

a reply to: crazyewok

"Who says?

Humans? ",,,,, Human's??

gee whiz golly .

Who says?

Humans? lol

originally posted by: rickynews
Our Declaration of Independence acknowledges a Creator as the source of the unalienable rights that governments are formed to secure. This acknowledgement was the very foundation of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Your words:

This nation was founded under God, and the Constitution clearly indicates that our Rights are given to us By Our Creator (and certainly not by the government).

Not true as has been pointed out.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: rickynews
This nation was founded under God,

Who says?

Humans?

I don't think God put his signature down on the US constitution.

originally posted by: rickynews
To the contrary, an Atheistic society is a road map to Communism.

Not all Atheists are communists you know.

Im not a Atheist but I understand the principle that not all Atheists are communist. It the most stupid and paranoid cold war mumbo jumbo I heard!

I've taken another look at communism, and a lot of communism's ideas are actually pretty decent. The biggest problem with communism, in recorded history, is that it is run by capitalists - which I suspect may have contributed to the employment of communism in the first place.

But I'm not a communist. I'm not anything specifically, actually. In keeping with my spiritual disposition, I am in favor of incorporating elements from multiple political movements and positions. Not all are perfect, but most have useful pieces that can be plucked and combined with similarly useful pieces from elsewhere. Kinda reminds me of a certain religion that chose to subsequently bastardize itself for a number of possible reasons, rather than respecting the source of its popularity.

originally posted by: BobAthome
a reply to: crazyewok

"Who says?

Humans? ",,,,, Human's??

gee whiz golly .

Who says?

Humans? lol

Saying the constitution was founded under god does not make it so. Unless he comes down and puts his signature on it.

Its silly useless wording. You may as well say its founded under Micky mouse for all its worth.
Or put its founded under me even though I haven't agreed to countersign it.

God has nothing to do with the USA as a nation what so ever.

a reply to: BobAthome

Bob, in all fairness you make a solid point. However I believe that while you may agree with the notion, there are far more on the other side of that coin. Just look at some of the recent news from Texas where even conservative Christian women are coming out in favor of income disparity for women because if they are making as much money as men they won't want to stay home and take care of their husband they way they are supposed to. I am fully aware that those people don't speak for all Christians but I stand by my stance that on the dangers of theocracy and how the farther right/conservative and predominantly Southern Christians have more in common with Saudi Arabia and the Taliban than they will ever admit and that the vast majority of them are extraordinarily hypocritical and rather unchristian in how they treat others and view the world. Just because I don't believe in a god doesn't mean I don't thi that the message of Christ is beautiful and an amazing way to live that would benefit all of humanity. I'd just like to see more Christians get on board with HIS teaching and stop quoting the OT to me in defense of their own ignorant attitudes. And for the record, I'm not directing any of that towards you because to my recollection I haven't seen you personally make any statements resembling the above thought process. Just thout I should clarify that I'm not making it a of sonar mAtter with you.

originally posted by: BobAthome
a reply to: peter vlar

" HenryVIII decided to break with Rome." wow u do like too skew your sources,, how about the chopping women's heads off left ,right, and centre???

hey i thought u were a womens rights champ, but common,,,really????????? lol

How am I skewing my sources? Did he not break with Rome and found his own church? Did not his heirs commit 100's of years of wars against the Catholics? I was simply citing examples, not showing my admiration for the sick bastard.

As previously posted, the U.S. Constitution says what it says, which is:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident...all men are... endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men."
Our Declaration of Independence acknowledges a Creator as the source of the unalienable rights that governments are formed to secure. This acknowledgement was the very foundation of the Constitution of the United States of America.

source: National Center for Constitutional Studies
posting at: www.nccs.net...

a reply to: rickynews

I thought you said the constitution was based on god? Why are you quoting the Declaration of Independence? You just can't make up your mind can you? The problem here is we weren't a country until the constitution was ratified by 9 of the 13 colonies. The Declaration was simply us saying we were no longer interested in being a part of Britain any longer. But it's rather moot thugh as your claim was the constitution was based on god so... Still waiting for those citations regarding the US Constitution.

ETA. just sA your above reply and creator is not a Christian God.

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: rickynews

I thought you said the constitution was based on god? Why are you quoting the Declaration of Independence? You just can't make up your mind can you? The problem here is we weren't a country until the constitution was ratified by 9 of the 13 colonies. The Declaration was simply us saying we were no longer interested in being a part of Britain any longer. But it's rather moot thugh as your claim was the constitution was based on god so... Still waiting for those citations regarding the US Constitution.

See previous post.