NJ Public School sued over "Under God" in Pledge of Allegiance

Never mind. No feeding the trolls, yada yada. Sorry.

originally posted by: rickynews

As the United States of America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth, I'll take that as a blessing. Maybe its just me though...

Yes its the greatest military superpower. But many military superpowers have come and gone over the years. Britain and Spain. Did they have gods blessing?

What about Rome or the mongol empire? They were not even Christian?

Seems to me super powers are made and fall on human merit alone.

Plus we are only talking Military super power here. Might does not always equal right.

As for happiness and standard of living, Scandinavia country's seem to lead those rankings. Are they blessed by god?

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: rickynews

As the United States of America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth, I'll take that as a blessing. Maybe its just me though...

Yes its the greatest military superpower. But many military superpowers have come and gone over the years. Britain and Spain. Did they have gods blessing?

What about Rome or the mongol empire? They were not even Christian?

Seems to me super powers are made and fall on human merit alone.

Plus we are only talking Military super power here. Might does not always equal right.

As for happiness and standard of living, Scandinavia country's seem to lead those rankings. Are they blessed by god?

I am certain God has blessed many people and nations.

originally posted by: rickynews

I am certain God has blessed many people and nations.

Fair enough.

I think my debate has run it course.

Have a happy rest of your day

originally posted by: rickynews

As the United States of America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth, I'll take that as a blessing. Maybe its just me though...

Sure it is. Unless youre a racial minority, a woman, live below the poverty line, a member of a minority religious sect(like a polygamist group)or a disabled vet. I think there are a lot of marginalized groups of Americans who would disagree with that. For what it's worth I don't necessarily disagree with the statement in principle, but after almost 2 decades battling the VA over things I'm supposed to be entitled to I think that the bureaucratic nightmare that this country ha become is anything but blessed. I fact I'd go so far as to say that the naive, blind patriotic love I once had for this country has turned out to be a curse that neither buracracym nor any sort of god has the ability to fix. For what it's worth, I'm glad that you're in a place where you can think that this country is so great when it is a crumbling shamble and shadow of what the founding fathers started us off with.

Wondering if they are taking legal actions against vacations that revolve around religions? Do they sue their employers for not having work on said holidays? What a bunch of wannabe extremist hypocritical a-holes... I am not religious...but get a freaking life already.

People with no love of the country should just leave instead of trying to get the courts to change the way things have always been. God and Christianity are part of USA and it's time to tell the anti-American people to #-off. What makes the atheists believe that their religion is better than all others?

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: rickynews

As the United States of America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth, I'll take that as a blessing. Maybe its just me though...

Sure it is. Unless youre a racial minority, a woman, live below the poverty line, a member of a minority religious sect(like a polygamist group)or a disabled vet. I think there are a lot of marginalized groups of Americans who would disagree with that. For what it's worth I don't necessarily disagree with the statement in principle, but after almost 2 decades battling the VA over things I'm supposed to be entitled to I think that the bureaucratic nightmare that this country ha become is anything but blessed. I fact I'd go so far as to say that the naive, blind patriotic love I once had for this country has turned out to be a curse that neither buracracym nor any sort of god has the ability to fix. For what it's worth, I'm glad that you're in a place where you can think that this country is so great when it is a crumbling shamble and shadow of what the founding fathers started us off with.

The recent news as to how many of our Veterans have been treated is nothing less than disgraceful to be sure. I'm sorry to hear that you are one of many Vets that have also experienced this shameful treatment. It is inexcusable. I personally and sincerely want to thank you for your service to our country, and helping all of us enjoy the freedoms and liberty that all too many and all too often are taken for granted. Freedom is never free.

originally posted by: peter vlar

originally posted by: rickynews

As the United States of America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth, I'll take that as a blessing. Maybe its just me though...

Sure it is. Unless youre a racial minority, a woman, live below the poverty line, a member of a minority religious sect(like a polygamist group)or a disabled vet. I think there are a lot of marginalized groups of Americans who would disagree with that. For what it's worth I don't necessarily disagree with the statement in principle, but after almost 2 decades battling the VA over things I'm supposed to be entitled to I think that the bureaucratic nightmare that this country ha become is anything but blessed. I fact I'd go so far as to say that the naive, blind patriotic love I once had for this country has turned out to be a curse that neither buracracym nor any sort of god has the ability to fix. For what it's worth, I'm glad that you're in a place where you can think that this country is so great when it is a crumbling shamble and shadow of what the founding fathers started us off with.

I know how you feel man. I have to deal with the VA too. But even then, just a simple trip to the DMV can be a super frustrating process. Then to make matters worse, the government's fix to inefficient bureaucracy is MORE bureaucracy.

a reply to: gladtobehere
right, but he got that salute from the Romans, so it's very hard to interpret what message this Baptist was attempting to communicate, you have something that really is pagan and then supposed to be paying homage to God initiated by a Baptist which of course implies God in the Christian context, the protestant religious offshoot, one that we definitely know was completely not in agreement with the Roman Church and the Pope,.

But the framers of the constitution were doing everything they could to make the constitution as secular as possible, the true foundations of America is not as truly Christian based as some people erroneously conclude, much of those beliefs were in fact invoked after the foundations were laid.

So I bet in the thinking of the founders of that day, there were some who may have not truly believed in the same God people might be thinking of, so if they were applying this sort of thinking, I really do not know if there were a large atheist contingent during the drafting whether the framers would have considered this or not but one fact is the word God is not found in the constitution.

But you have the Baptist minister creating the pledge without the reference to God and then congress endorsing without the words "under God" in 1942, it makes you think whether this was a special interest being served, when the pledge was just fine up until 1954, so there is a problem to me, if the special interest was served as a result of the Knights of Columbus who in the first place rallied and gave cause to insert "under God" years after there was no reference, what is wrong with the current group's position to remove it and how is one better than the other? I am just playing the devil's advocate here, but again I think many are confused about the original context of the word God and it's generic application as well as specific, truly with many religions there are many Gods and sorry, do not come back and try and say that the Constitution and America was based on Christianity because that is materially incorrect if you use the Constitution to establish the basis and foundation.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
It's silly to sue the school district for the words contained in it. The school didn't make up the Pledge.

If anything, they should be either working with the school district to excuse their kids from saying it, or to abolish it altogether from the daily curriculum (my preference). If kids want to pledge "under God", they should do it in church, in their homes or somewhere that is NOT a government institution.

The phrase "under God" IS discriminatory (to atheist kids and other religions where God isn't their central figure) and not only that, it's a state institution (public school) "respecting an establishment of religion", which we all know about from the First Amendment.

Personally I have always felt that it should just simply be changed to "under (insert preferred deity or lack thereof)." On the list of issues to address this one not so difficult just don't let President Obama say he is for it before the House passes it.

"Once again, our liberties,freedoms and traditions are under attack. The notion that the words "Under God" are in anyway discriminatory is not only a complete farce, but is also an organized effort by the very few to undermine the principles which America was founded."

One quick google search shows that "under god" and "in god we trust" was added the the pledge and money, respectively, in the 1950s.

How does it feel to baste in your own ignorance?

originally posted by: Mailman
Wondering if they are taking legal actions against vacations that revolve around religions? Do they sue their employers for not having work on said holidays? What a bunch of wannabe extremist hypocritical a-holes... I am not religious...but get a freaking life already.

Yes, it's really extremist to want to remove a line of dialogue (pandering to one group of people) that wasn't even in the original pledge to begin with, located in a country where there are multiple groups of people other than that aforementioned collective. Just think about what you're saying here.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: rickynews
It says " in the year of our Lord". They all signed it, even if some were atheists, they signed off on language that included reference to "our Lord".

Two things.

First, this is not the quote you kept insisting was in the Constitution and was actually in the Declaration.

Second, the phrase 'in the year of our Lord' is a euphemism and not a religious connotation. Is anyone who walks into a building that has 'AD 1910' cast in the cornerstone a Christian?

Stop being absurd with your premises.

I will clarify, however, that you were correct , and that I was incorrect regarding the reference to God/Our Creator is specifically mentioned in the Declaration of Independence and not in the U.S. Constitution, and only the words "in the year of Our Lord" as a reference to God was written in the U.S. Constitution.