Breaking: Bundy family unearths BLM mass cattle grave

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

The order was to confiscate the cattle for resale in order to compensate the govt for the unpaid grazing fees.

The order was NOT to slaughter the cattle, damage personal property and terrorize all individuals (with firearms, tazers and attack dogs) that felt the govt was overreaching.

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What bothers me is not the fact that this man's livestock were to be confiscated and resold. He didn't pay his grazing fees and therefore must live with the consequences.

What bothers me is the brutal methods, blatant disregard for the proper execution of the court order and the destruction of personal property. This is not how law enforcement are to carry out an order of the court and it is an insult not only to the Bundy family (who although were at fault should not have been subject to consequences not ordered by a court of law) but also to the Judge himself.

If the order had said that the cattle was to be destroyed and his land was to be decimated (although that last part would never happen) then I would not have any problem with any of this.

It makes one wonder who they just buried.

originally posted by: DaMod
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

The order was to confiscate the cattle for resale in order to compensate the govt for the unpaid grazing fees.

The order was NOT to slaughter the cattle, damage personal property and terrorize all individuals (with firearms, tazers and attack dogs) that felt the govt was overreaching.

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I disagree on your interpretation of the original text of the public notices on BLM and the Federal Register as well as supporting court material. I didn't see specifically what they were to do with the cattle and I've looked. A few times. Collect and Impound. The devil can be in the wording sometimes and that wording isn't real good as it appeared. BLM does routinely shoot and kill animals on open range land as part of the control of herds around the nation. That wasn't the plan here, I'd agree. Nothing says it was. It's something to keep in mind for how they may try next tho.


Also... I may as well just outright say this because I'm really unable to even grasp how people are looking at this event. If I were one of those cops, I'd have had an M-16 and a sniper somewhere out behind me too. They knew precisely how Custer felt, half surrounded by men on horseback, and the packs that could and most likely did carry weapons for all and ammo to run for hours.

Of course the cops were on the defensive. They were there to enforce a court order. Not walk into the live fire re-enactment of Fort Sumter. Proportion and picking who to be mad at is something people in our country are losing all handle on.

Go after the worker bees....and nothing ever changes but to see those with energy to act, put down hard and fast while acting in the whole wrong direction. That's my personal opinion.

What bothers me is not the fact that this man's livestock were to be confiscated and resold. He didn't pay his grazing fees and therefore must live with the consequences.

The were confiscated and then released as far as I know. BLM indicates they turned them all back when they shut down the operation. They have a bit over 11 months to come back under the same notice, so they lost little by withdrawing for now.

What bothers me is the brutal methods, blatant disregard for the proper execution of the court order and the destruction of personal property.

What was improper about how they went about the order? It was posted well in advance with detailed maps of the areas impacted, details about procedures which would be followed and notice that access to the areas being worked would be almost entirely cut off during ongoing operations (land owners could still cross). Also, as the laws state that are cited throughout the orders and notices, any property abandoned on public land is abandoned property. Was the destroyed property on BLM land as the maps indicate that to be, or on his private ranch?

This is not how law enforcement are to carry out an order of the court and it is an insult not only to the Bundy family (who although were at fault should not have been subject to consequences not ordered by a court of law) but also to the Judge himself.

When someone in the area has put out a call for action...armed action no less..against any federal agents who are following a lawfully issued court order on declared public land, just how are they supposed to react? Assume someone isn't serious and hope for the best? If you wave red flags to bulls...expect the charge that follows.

If the order had said that the cattle was to be destroyed and his land was to be decimated (although that last part would never happen) then I would not have any problem with any of this.

I'm still very confused on what we're calling his land vs. what the State of Nevada and Feds recognize as public/private land boundaries. Those don't change just because he says they do...and the courts have, thus far, found no validity in his claims otherwise. I suppose everything changes, if that ever does.

Overall Area Map with Boundaries, Grazing Lease Lines and Agency Responsibility

Despite a clear and violent overreach by the BLM, Nevada Senator Harry Reid has responded to the incident by calling Bundy and his supporters “domestic terrorists.”

That is all we need to be worried about. If you pay the state, and not the FEDS, if you complain, you will be labeled a Domestic Terrorist....

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I'm still very confused on what we're calling his land vs. what the State of Nevada and Feds recognize as public/private land boundaries. Those don't change just because he says they do...and the courts have, thus far, found no validity in his claims otherwise. I suppose everything changes, if that ever does.

Well if you check the map you posted... Read the disclaimer on the bottom right hand side..

With that said I'd like more time to re-review court documentation as well as the Nevada fish and wildlife area maps (as per my experience the fish and wildlife maps tend to be more accurate than those provided by the BLM) before I reply to your post in full.

A mass cattle grave......lol... He is just grabbing for all the attention he can get. I wish people would stop giving it to him this is not news.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Ok, after review of court documentation the exact wording of the final order (this same language can be found throughout including in the government's original complaint...

IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED that the United States’ Motion to Enforce Injunction (Doc.#50) is hereby GRANTED.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Bundy is permanently enjoined from trespassing on the former Bunkerville Allotment.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the United States is entitled to protect the former Bunkerville Allotment against this trespass, and all future trespasses by Bundy.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Bundy shall remove his livestock from the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days of the date hereof, and that the United States is entitled to seize and remove to impound any of Bundy’s cattle that remain in trespass after 45 days of the date hereof.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the United States is entitled to seize and remove to impound any of Bundy’s cattle for any future trespasses, provided the United States has complied with the notice provisions under the governing regulations of the United States Department of the Interior

A link to all court documentation in the current case (separate for the earlier case) can be found below. (note: this is from a Wiki however all legal documentation can be found on the right hand side viewable through PDF)

Source

notice the wording "the United States is entitled to seize and remove to impound"

This wording is important because it would include laws governing the action of "impoundment".

What the BLM did was "Euthanize".. which in the order is not what they were entitled to do. They could seize-remove-impound...

Wording is VERY important when it comes to legal documentation.

The reason this is so important is generally impounded property, after proceedings are completed, become property of the state for liquidation in the district of jurisdiction.. In this case the district is the State of Nevada even if it was tried in Federal Court.

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Obviously it would take a lawsuit to determine whether the method of execution of said order by the BLM was in fact outside their level of entitlement... but it's something to think about.

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I think what's important to think about here is what would have happened to the cattle were they to be resold... The answer is most likely they would have been purchased by other rangers (for a steal) and would be furthering their economic prosperity....

I find this to be more "American" than simply euthanizing the herd and burying them on the ranch property......

a reply to: DaMod

Thanks for getting back to me on that. So, on a side note, you didn't find specific language for what they were to do with them after impounding them either? Just take them, hold them....and presumably report back to the court?

I'm wide open to new facts on this...but I haven't seen where any facts have been established on this burial hole. Did the BLM actually dig it? Were they downer cattle in the field, healthy ones that were shot or killed by poor transport?

I understand they had released a large number back to him, so where did these dead ones fit into it, next to the live ones given back? (honest questions..as this is somewhat of a new aspect and I'm not fully read up on anything with it yet)

This afternoon, demonstrators gathered at the area where personnel and cattle were located. Due to escalating tensions, the cattle have been released from the enclosures in order to avoid violence and help restore order.

Source: BLM April 10 Announcement

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Lol I'm getting there..

It's hard to find language that pertains to "personal property" as opposed to "motor vehicle"....

I'm still on it.

a reply to: DaMod

lol... Okay. No rush and thanks for the time in nailing some of this down. It would be nice to get something of a clean sourced record of what is really happening here vs. MSM.

a reply to: Peekingsquatch

Please, more hope and change! More hope and change!!!!!!

I know Bundy lost in the Federal courts, but OF COURSE he is going to lose in a Federal court when his dispute is with the Federal Gov't. Why is this not in the State courts as well. Bundy maintains that this land is State land, should Nevada not also have a say in this? Or did he lose in the State courts as well?

Dp...

Sorry

Holly Cow !!!

BLM confirms cattle murders.

1 Bundy branded bull was euthanized
1 Bundy branded cow was euthanized
1 unbranded bull was euthanized
1 unbranded cow was euthanized
1 unbranded bull died
1 unbranded cow died

BLM Confirms It Killed Six Of Bundy's Cattle

a reply to: DaMod

"I think what's important to think about here is what would have happened to the cattle were they to be resold... The answer is most likely they would have been purchased by other rangers (for a steal) and would be furthering their economic prosperity...."

Hey guys I caught some of Hannity and Kevin Wahl again today. I guess BLM had something set up in Utah where they were going to take his cattle there and auction them off. Some higher-up in Utah told them at the last minute that they could not bring the cattle over state lines. I think it had something to do with them being on the side of Bundy, and maybe part of the stand down reason -but who knows. However the BLM did admit to killing six of his cattle, and according to the Bundy family there were holes dug for more. I think Wrabbit was asking about them digging holes, they had brought backhoes with them, and dug more holes besides the ones they found but were found to be empty.

a reply to: xuenchen

Supposedly they all had gun shot wounds, I personally am not buying that they "just died."

a reply to: Emerys
I "hope" things will "change" soon too...

Hey Wrabbit-

Did you see this other thread? www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe Dirty Harry is trying to stir all of this up as a distraction to cover his bribe...??

originally posted by: OpinionatedB

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: ausername
Trespassing cattle in mass graves today, trespassing herds of humans tomorrow?

Yes and they testify against themselves that they are the children of those that killed off the buffalo and drove the plains tribes into the reservations and government rations.

Thats funny... Bundy himself is one of those same "children" and Bundy's supporters really could care less about the Native Americans.

Below is a Bundy supporters response to Kali74 saying the militia should go help the Native Americans with their rights too where concerns the KXL..

originally posted by: burntheships
reply to post by Kali74

 

I dont own a gun, go ahead.

ETA: Even if I did, I would not condone the things you suggest.

Its all aboult rights in the Bundy case. Maybe the Indians have
rights, maybe they dont. I have not looked into that.

Apparently they don't condone supporting the native american or their rights... only Bundy's.

I am talking about official government policy of killing off the buffalo to gain control over independent tribes. Now those guns are turned elsewhere. These government types don't care if you are Indian or not if you get in the way of them. Bundy and the others might as well be the Sioux at this point.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: Danbones

Are we still on the topic of BLM agents out of the Nevada field office, following a lawful and binding court order to remove this guys cattle from our public lands....or are we turning this case into a catalyst to simply boost anti-government sentiment?

At this point any freedom gained or retaken will require disobedience. Look at all the lawful and binding orders of King George the revolutionaries violated. Even talking about many things we now enjoy was treason. And these are not really "our" public lands but are at the disposal of the federal government for any disposition.