Breaking: Bundy family unearths BLM mass cattle grave

a reply to: Peekingsquatch

Maybe you could get her to join lol

originally posted by: nugget1
I thought the whole point of the swat-style raid was to confiscate the cattle, and SELL them, using the money gendered to deduct from what Bundy supposedly owed on back taxes.
Slaughtering the cattle puts everything on an entirely different page; one I hope all Americans are reading.

Only time will tell just how close Reid is to the top echelons of corruption. I will be watching who sides with Reid VERY closely.

apparently no one would touch the cattle, even utah. which makes sense.
maybe that's why they released them back.

i believe i read that here on ats.

harry is a fool and a liar.

a reply to: Peekingsquatch

I hear what you're saying..and I hear what is being said on his behalf. I'm also reading court transcripts and source documents both sides refer to for the media, to see what they REALLY say...and Bundy isn't making that claim for owning direct rights to the land outside the court of public opinion. Near as I can tell, his mumblings about Homestead exception were thrown out summarily and quite some time back. Since then, he's been shotgunning causes, with those being important points for each, but in his approach? Whatever sticks...and that is where a man fighting on principle, isn't about principle anymore. Winning at any cost is what the people he's fighting do....and aside from the argument regarding becoming what we fight? You can't out-scum the scum of the U.S.G....tho he's trying hard.

First tho.. WHICH land is supposedly his? To read the court transcripts and compare to statements? You'd think the man believes he owns the whole Virgin River Valley. Umm.... I think not.

In its complaint, the United States alleges that, not only has Bundy failed to comply with the court’s orders that he remove his cattle from the Bunkerville Allotment and pay the financial penalties, but that Bundy’s cattle have moved beyond the boundaries of the Bunkerville Allotment and are now trespassing on a broad swath of additional federal land (the “New Trespass Lands”), including public lands within the Gold Butte area that are administered by the BLM, and National Park System land within the Overton Arm and Gold Butte areas of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area. The United States seeks an order enjoining Bundy’s unauthorized grazing on the New Trespass Lands.

Check the BLM maps for action areas I linked above to see what these areas are and, as it mentioned, Gold Butte isn't even all BLM land. He's violating more than one line of property which is not his. More important tho...his actual claim.

Bundy principally opposes the United States’ motion for summary judgment on the ground that this court lacks jurisdiction because the United States does not own the public lands in question. As this court previously ruled in United States v. Bundy, Case No. CV-S- 98-531-JBR (RJJ) (D. Nev. Nov. 4, 1998), “the public lands in Nevada are the property of the United States because the United States has held title to those public lands since 1848, when Mexico ceded the land to the United States.” CV-S-98-531 at 8 (citing United States v. Gardner, 107 F.3d 1314, 1318 (9th Cir. 1997)). Moreover, Bundy is incorrect in claiming that the Disclaimer Clause of the Nevada Constitution carries no legal force, see Gardner, 107 F.3d at 1320; that the Property Clause of the United States Constitution applies only to federal lands outside the borders of states, see id. at 1320; that the United States‘ exercise of ownership over federal lands violates the Equal Footing Doctrine, see id. at 1319; that the United States is basing its authority to sanction Bundy for his unauthorized use of federal lands on the Endangered Species Act as opposed to trespass, see Compl. at ¶¶ 1,3, 26-39; and that Nevada’s “Open Range” statute excuses Bundy’s trespass. See e.g., Gardner, 107 F.3d at 1320 (under Supremacy Clause state statute in conflict with federal law requiring permit to graze would be trumped).

That's the thrust of his point and fight as it's been made in any official sense, where it matters to make it.

Nor is there a legitimate dispute that Bundy has grazed his cattle on the New Trespass Lands without federal authorization. The United States has submitted Bundy’s deposition excerpts indicating that Bundy has grazed livestock on the New Trespass Lands and further evidence of the trespass of Bundy’s cattle in those areas. Notwithstanding Bundy’s contentions that the observed cattle bearing his brand may not in fact be his own, such a denial does not controvert Nevada law regarding prima facie evidence of ownership of branded cattle. In sum, in this most recent effort to oppose the United States’ legal process, Bundy has produced no valid law or specific facts raising a genuine issue of face regarding federal ownership or management of public lands in Nevada, or that his cattle have not trespassed on the New Trespass Lands.

US vs. Bundy - District Court of Nevada / July 2013

That's as source as it gets, in being his own case and one of the major legal defeats, across the board, which led to the scheduled removal of his cattle. I could even see people getting mad if they surprised him...but they gave notice on the Federal Register, which is as public as ad space in Times Square. Bundy had many chances to fight..and he lost on merit, every time he did. Now he's choosing to play on passions to build his own "People's Resistance" or something... I'll fight for principle. I'll NEVER fight for a man. This man seems wrong, IMO.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Yes, I have little use for Bundy.

I think this is more like the proverbial can of worms.

Bundy opened it right or wrong.

Can they get the worms back in the can?

a reply to: Peekingsquatch

I work with his grandaughter, and have been trying to catch her on her way to her car just to ask if she can clear up some of the information for us.

AHHHHHH..... That very personal and very direct connection to one side of the story here is something I totally missed. I'm sure you've said it, but I missed it. I appreciate the context and it helps.

I'll say this as a point to raise then..... He claims these documents exist which show legal basis. He didn't produce these documents in the legal venue that would have mattered in. There is no reference or record in transcripts to these having been entered, or we'd have them to look at too for part of the public record.

If we saw the documents he says give him claim to land here...it would do wonders to judge the validity. Perhaps that's what the court eludes to having summarily dismissed before. However..there are millions of lawyers in this nation. It's NOT a booming professional for the majority of them...and pro bono work is a thing of requirement in that profession. So if he posted or released those into the public domain, and they show what he says they show, he'll get the support he needs from people who care as much or more than he does.

Without them tho....It's claims anyone, anywhere can make about anything..and courts ruled the actual arguments made aren't sufficient to carry anything on.

Here's a screen capture of the BLM page that was taken down and a story about First Solar Inc. building a solar energy facility in Moapa, NV not too far from the Bundy land.

March 21, 2014 Moapa Paiute Tribe, LADWP and First Solar Break Ground on 250MW Solar Project US Sen. Harry Reid Joins in Ceremony Kicking Off Landmark Power Plant on Tribal Land MOAPA, Nev.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Today, U.S. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (NV) joined representatives from the Moapa Band of Paiutes, executives from First Solar, Inc. (Nasdaq: FSLR) and the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP), as well as other community, government and energy industry leaders to celebrate the start of construction of the 250 Megawatt (MW)AC Moapa Southern Paiute Solar Project. The project is located on the Moapa River Indian Reservation just north of Las Vegas, and has a Power Purchase Agreement (PPA) with the LADWP to deliver clean, solar energy for 25 years to the City of Los Angeles.

investor.firstsolar.com...

Moapa Southern Paiute Solar, LLC (a subsidiary of First Solar Electric, LLC) is the project owner and will construct the project using First Solar's advanced photovoltaic (PV) thin film solar modules. The project will be built on 2,000 acres of land on the Moapa River Indian Reservation and include an onsite substation and a new 5.5 mile 500 kV transmission line that will connect the project to the existing Crystal Substation, serving energy users in California.

investor.firstsolar.com...

I wonder if the solar panels for this project are made in China? Anyone willing to bet me they are not?

This link is for the cached page in the image below.
file:///C:/Users/Mike/Downloads/Cattle%20Trespass%20Impacts.htm

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

And to stay clear....

here's a link to the October 2013 district court order.

they clarified some discrepancies.....

U.S. vs Bundy -- Oct 2013

different judge.

very complicated.

a reply to: Mamatus

I couldn't have said it better.

Second.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000


36.969855, -108.164523

This location was grazing lease from the BLM will omit leaser name this was closed due to a quail or a lizard . Few years Later a strip mine appeared and a road to San Juan Generating station. What about the endangered species ? Its no longer mined strip mined out Since its in remediation still no access .



36.765517, -108.286822

This location grazing was halted because of competition with antelopes and cows would scare them off . This is a police only shooting range .90% of surrounding area locked off. Dont want you to get shot . Afraid of cows what about gun shots and explosions to destroy guns and drugs.

36.817357, -108.275189

This location I cant remember why it was an endangered species grazing was closed off so was our access . All 3 were founders in this area leased them. If you look at this one you see it dotted with wells . Again locked off from john q public.

When these ranchers leased these lands you could go there any time day or night just dont hurt the land or cows and close the gate.

So cows are worse for the environment than oil wells or cows are worse than gun fire or strip mining . I really hate the lying games .

To me the killing and dumping is icing on the cake. And a round up in calving season is plum stupid.


Huge hunks of land we cant use but business or police can. These all had been in continuous use from 1870s till 1995 ish . Same time frame Bundys problems started .

a reply to: Mikeultra

related in some ways.

That project is not the same one named "Dry Lake" that is nearby.

But First Solar is listed as an interested party in the Dry Lake project as well.

First Solar has connections to one individual who was/is a campaign bundler for Obama/Reid/Democrats.

Thread related to that and some other things related to the current topic

very complicated.

Poor old cows. Better on my plate than in the dirt for the worms to eat.

a reply to: Lostinthedarkness

Well... Don't look now... but Bundy represents business. That's not a herd of personal pets, but 1 million dollars, roughly, gross value on the hoof. We're not talking about a man's right to pursue the American dream..but Bundy's right to fatten that million dollars of business investment, on public feed, to sell and personally profit on. It's business as sure as anything else being done across Nevada.

Somehow, for some odd reason, this businessman caught the heart strings of a very reactionary segment of the population. However, again, in the end? It's big agriculture against big Government for the win/loss of big energy on a NON-Oil (nice for a change) energy project. Scary Harry can go explore the more radioactive areas of the NTS on a fact finding mission for all I care. In fact, we'd all probably applaud the man for it. (grin) Still.. that's where it comes in for ..this battle? This time?

For some, yes. For me? I'll wait for a battle where victory looks different than 7 figure revenue collection into personal checking accounts for the man heading it. (and people say other movements are money based..this one is literally built around it, on both sides)

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Bundy has shown himself willing to outright lie in order to garner support for his little "cause" and the militia shown they would do anything in order to show the government as being the bad guy....

yet... this everyone is believing? These people are nothing but liars and frauds, and this report is this:

"Now, Greta, we also obtained exclusive video of what appears to be be a mass grave with dead cows in it. In the video here, you see Ryan Bundy who is overlooking what appears to be be a 45-foot by 18-foot hole dug presumably by the feds with at least one dead cow in it."


In actuality we have one dead cow and a hole that could have been dug by anyone - Deny ignorance anyone? Oh that's right... ignorance and idiocy is bliss these days and the motto of ATS is absolutely meaningless.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000


Dont get me wrong I see your point.

Business is business by one is a multi generation family, the others are corporations . The BLM has made a habit of breaking leases with one for fictitious reasons to lease the land to a corporation later on totally destroying the reason it closed the area in the first place . Bundy made real errors in my point of view. But on the other hand he is still here most ranchers I knew threw in the hat in the 90s all had quit by 2005. I still think thats what killed one of them had to quit was too much.

Bundy just happens to be an enemy of something I have great disdain for .

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

If the BLM was honest and treated all equal I wouldnt have a problem . I should have the right to use that land just as much as a oil and gas co. if they can drive there why cant I.

originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Bundy just happens to be an enemy of something I have great disdain for .

you don't need Bundy to air your grievances; you don't need Bundy for a damn thing - what Bundy WILL do is hurt you when people with legitimate grievances will not be heard by many because of lies told by this man and his supporters.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Actually you are wrong, that hole could not have been dug by anybody. A tiny backhoe didn't make that hole, a fullsized backhoe did.
hole
I don't think it would be kosher to embed directly here.

a reply to: OpinionatedB


people around here have been whining to our politicians for 20 years about bait and switch tactics to nullify grazing leases for ranchers sheepherders .

Always a deaf ear.

Atleast they are talking in SLC.

a reply to: Lostinthedarkness

Atleast they are talking in SLC.

Well, Amen to that I say. If we remove Bundy and his profits from this for a moment...and imagine this fight being fought without his personal business problems at the middle of it...

Then I agree with you 110% on the Federal Vs. State land issue, and particularly in THAT area, as it happens. I was known to shuffle loads and run trips specifically to time my casino stops. Not in Vegas or Primm or Stateline. Heck with those dumps full of rigged machines and bad buffets. I went out of my way to get a night over in Mesquite and the Virgin River. Best Buffet in Nevada in this former trucker's opinion!

Uncle owns all but 15% of Nevada and even California, to my surprise, is over 40% owned by the Feds. That DOES have to stop and stop entirely, IMO. National Parks? I can see... Right of ways for national power grid lines? I can see that too. I can even see Interstates and easements off each side for Federal land.

Outside that? It should be the State. Always, and without exception. As the map I posted earlier shows, after all. The Eastern states don't tolerate that crap, and someone TRY and tell me they don't have open land to claim in double digits. They absolutely DO. They just have that as State land...as it should be, IMO.

Why does this not surprise me ? Then again nothing does any more when it comes to these alphabet agencies. I think the people of Nevada need to go find Harry Reid and bury him in the dirt with his feet sticking out the ground , his head is all ready lodged up his rear end.