Breaking: Bundy family unearths BLM mass cattle grave

People seem to forget that he does not own the land and was only allowed to graze his cattle there if he payed rent for it. when the old man didn't pay his bills, the government forcibly removed the cattle from their property.

I applaud people standing up for the old man, but we really need to get our priorities straight. There are much more important things an armed militia should assemble for. But, if we learned anything from MLK Jr, is that peaceful protest is the only way to get results.

a reply to: oneupShadow

And people seem to forget that it is silly to get a "property manager" to collect the so-called "rent" (which many dispute since it has been owned by the Bundy's for three generations and someone else could come to claim the rightful owner??) when this manager seems to waste more money than they collect. In real life, they ought to be fired....but we are not living in reality here, are we?

Also people seem to forget that the more fees that local food suppliers (including local ranchers and farmers) are charged with, the higher the cost of food that people will have to bear. Do they think that these ranchers should do charity work providing affordable food? When they are out of business, who will monopolize the food production? None other than big corporations who care not the quality they deliver!

And people seem to forget that the BsLM did not plant nor care for the grass (and never will). What are they going to charge people with next? The air you breathe? Besides, having the cattle helps reduce chances of bush fires. The ranchers ought be given the responsibility and be paid to look after the grass and upkeep of the federal land (if that's what they are using)!

And people seem to forget that we need to help the underdogs (strengthen the base of the pyramid, so to speak). Harry Reid, Sons & Co. are doing mighty fine without your support, thank you very much.

Sadly, some people don't seem to (and probably will never) know where their priorities should be.

originally posted by: Peekingsquatch
a reply to: deadeyedick

Yeah exactly. Too much has been thrown from both sides, and while I do feel for the guy, is this a good enough rally for a SHTF scenario? Maybe? Maybe not until a good portion of this is verified for sure. The actons the BLM took got me mad too.

Wrabbit is a SERIOUS researcher, I was floored when he came up with copies of the court cases and topo maps. He's just doing his homework before he forms an opinion, but at the same time it made me stop and think about this too ALOT more.

You are impressed by someone who does research before forming an opinion?

In this day and age this is what EVERYONE should be doing... you cannot trust any side of the media, so if its important enough to have an opinion on, then you need to do your own research.

I did all the same research and do not support Bundy in any way shape or form... he is very clearly in the wrong - and I found this out by doing research. ANYONE who did their research wont support Bundy - or would be crazy to support him if they did.

This is why Bundy supporters are now the biggest joke in media today. Watch the below, everything in that video is true of Bundy and his supporters... and guess what - it's a joke.



Would you really support these people, after doing your own research and watching video's of things they have said - Some of which is truly sickening?

a reply to: OpinionatedB

OH right, people either agree with you, or they are crazy. That is a joke. So is that hitpiece joke of a video.

a reply to: TKDRL

well you just go on supporting this idiocy if you like...

This country is really very multifaceted however... you would enjoy it if you tried to experience it. There are people who are very supportive of lower fuel costs and lower utility costs; there are other people who are very supportive of environmental factors and don't want to see the natural aspects of this country go to the wayside; and there are others who believe that since we supply much food that this should be our main or only concern.

1) One thing that drive beef prices up is transportation cost.. ie: fuel. This is one main factor.

2) Also, Supply and demand. More loss due to storms and bad weather drive prices up.

3) Exports also drive cattle prices up when we don't have the supply for both ourselves and other countries which want to buy from us.

4) Making corn into fuels also drive cattle prices up, because the corn supply is now going for more than one thing, fuel, food for humans and food for livestock.

Seriously, there are more issues and more concerns than whether or not one man should have to pay some grazing fees that are based on 1969 prices - in effort to keep prices low!

If we weren't using so much corn to make fuel then we wouldn't be dealing with higher feed costs. If we had more of our own oil resources we wouldn't be dealing with higher cost of transporting meat- hence driving prices further up. If we didn't export what we use / need, beef prices would stay lower.

One man is not the issue, the issue is which year is what going to be more important to this nation as a whole. A few grazing fees are definitely not the issue.

Support your one man, who will do nothing to effect anything but your own ego - and his pocket book. The rest of us will keep dealing with reality though... and perhaps try to do what is best for this nation in the long run. Very few are short run kind of people. And even if Bundy did perchance win and never have to pay another grazing fee... it wont effect squat.

Excuse me while most of the country deals with more pressing matters than this one man. If anyone has concerns about the BLM and overreach, look no further than congress and the whitehouse for the real problem.... yet it's so easy to ignore washington.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Yes, oh great one, you are obviously the only one who knows how to multitask. Everyone who supports Bundy, that is the only issue they care about you think? Showing support for a man, means they must be ignoring the rest of the world?

a reply to: TKDRL

You tell me how showing up armed when the government tries to enforce a grazing fee that hasn't been paid in over 20 years by a man when every other rancher in the country pays their fees and has no difficulty in doing so will help even one thing...

how... will.... it... help... even... one... thing....???????

What "cause" is it?

From the outside looking in its a bunch of people who don't know the first thing about anything where concerns running cattle and/or the issues most of the country tries to deal with.

Because even if you people "win" prices will continue to skyrocket anyway! It's a matter of striking a balance dude... and apparently balance is something your not even a little bit knowledgeable in...

so you tell me... how does your "stance" to get Bundy free grazing going to help this country?

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Conversely, how does the government blowing ~3 million on a supposed ~1 million debt supposed to help the country? How does the country benefit if they didn't fail with their raid and takeover? How does the country gain by letting another rancher go down? Letting the first 43 or however many go down didn't seem to help any. I am sure the Reid family has some angle, they have their hands in everything in NV it seems.

Best Writeup I have found so far on the Reid family in NV

I don't understand why they murdered the cattle. They were Bundy's private property. What gives the government the right to do such a thing?

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Early on I would have discounted the Bundy's grazing issue as between him and the courts. When the "free speech" zones went up along with the tazing and knocking down of protesters became news that changed the entire situation as far as I and I think I can say hundreds of thousands of others opinions. The day of the tazing it is clear on video that the protesters were asking the right question as it turns out their fears were later proved true - their issue was BLM over stepping bounds of the existing court order - they got thuggery for asking a valid question.

The grazing issue started the problem for sure but the BLM's subsequent actions turned it into something entirely different where the grazing is but a small issue.

It's not an economic issue nor for me nor is it really about grazing rights - it's about a very heavy handed government having no qualm violating constitutional rights not only at the Bundy ranch but all across this nation.

originally posted by: Restricted
I don't understand why they murdered the cattle. They were Bundy's private property. What gives the government the right to do such a thing?

Serious question... Where are you seeing evidence that the cattle were healthy and killed vs. downer cattle (sick animals every herd has a % of, especially in open range)?

If they did kill perfectly healthy and viable animals, I want answers as much as anyone. We should demand them on that, especially since it hasn't been admitted to while being a perfectly legal thing the BLM DOES do elsewhere as routine business. Hiding it changes routine tho.

...so is there evidence beyond personal claims and statements that this is what happened with the cattle they found?

I don't mean to be picky..but this story, more than most lately, seems to have a lot of shifting ground where facts are concerned, IMO.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

The BLM supposedly stated that they were going to shoot two bulls because they posed a safety risk to those doing the operation (the one that included snipers). IIRC, that was posted earlier in the thread.

a reply to: butcherguy

Thank you..... Now what I was asking about... Did they put down viable healthy animals? I misunderstood here and thought we were talking about the pit where more than 2 animals came out in very bad shape. If bulls were menacing BLM people OR the public? Well...they won't be doing that again.

That conflict between people and cattle is part of why this was being done after 20 years of legal games and screwing with it. To read court papers and local coverage I could dig up, the human/cattle conflicts aren't new..but thanks for covering a couple of the cattle which were apparently killed.

What about the rest? It seems valid as it may actually tag BLM on a recognizable offense of some sort, if circumstances outside defense or accident (transport problems) are the cause.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

It is hard to tell what happened there. I saw photos of what looked to be formerly healthy cattle lying on the ground in what had been pools of blood, since dried up, not buried. There photos showing purported bullet holes.
Were the animals shot by the BLM?
Were they shot by the Bundy family to try to lay blame on the BLM?

Who knows?

I do know this much...
-The feds claim Bundy owes them money.
-The feds show up with armed agents suited up like they were going to Afghanistan... including snipers.
-The feds collected NO money, spent A LOT more money, and didn't collect a cent.... and came close to another Waco/Ruby Ridge type of incident.
They look pretty stupid to me.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

The BLM has come out and said it euthanised a total of 6 cattle.

www.breitbart.com...

Interestingly, only 2 were branded as Bundy's. Apparently he's the only one running cattle out there, were there wild ones in the herd?

Very odd they weren't branded.

a reply to: butcherguy

I do know this much...
-The feds claim Bundy owes them money.
-The feds show up with armed agents suited up like they were going to Afghanistan... including snipers.
-The feds collected NO money, spent A LOT more money, and didn't collect a cent.... and came close to another Waco/Ruby Ridge type of incident.
They look pretty stupid to me.

You make good points, especially on the cattle. If they were shot down in good health for no obvious need? Someone should answer for that. If contractors hired by BLM did it or Bundy's people did it, either way. It's wrong and that's a part of this that ought to get nailed down for who did what. I find it hard to believe Bundy would shoot his own property...and if he decided to throw sense to the wind and cross those lines, that he'd stop with just a couple.

On the other? Well.. that's probably where I disagree a lot. The BLM may not have shown up like D-Day if some locals hadn't put out a call for armed resistance to meet the BLM head on...days before it happened. They respond when challenged with lethal threat, as we'd expect law enforcement to. They won't assume it's not serious. Especially out there, where it's a very wild situation for fun, guns and sun with little to no sense of rules like may exist in a big city protest.

Ruby ridge started by the ambush of a child in the woods by a federal team acting like a patrol in a Vietnam jungle more than idaho woodlands. That's one I do think people should have gone to prison for, and not on Randy Weaver's side of the situation. Still.... I see no comparison here more than it would compare to hundreds of other examples of Government using force.

Waco was the ATF playing Cowboys and Bad Guys with such ridiculous force and size of response for one fanatic whack job...war was almost what they must have been seeking. (or..maybe..no almost about it). They got their wish, in spades..and managed to lose one of the only full armed engagements the Government has in living memory. Still.. what comparison to enforcement of land leases in the Nevada desert? I've never seen the comparison..

Except anti-Government runs deep on both, and that connection seems enough at times.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB

1) One thing that drive beef prices up is transportation cost.. ie: fuel. This is one main factor.

2) Also, Supply and demand. More loss due to storms and bad weather drive prices up.

3) Exports also drive cattle prices up when we don't have the supply for both ourselves and other countries which want to buy from us.

4) Making corn into fuels also drive cattle prices up, because the corn supply is now going for more than one thing, fuel, food for humans and food for livestock.

I agree but think you conveniently missed out:

5) Idiotic fees and fines. Plus all the associated costs. Don't tell me you think these will be absorbed by ranchers???

Support your one man, who will do nothing to effect anything but your own ego - and his pocket book.

We can guess you are supporting two men: Harry Reid & son? Good for you. We hope your investment pays off.

how does your "stance" to get Bundy free grazing going to help this country?

The real question should be: how does Your "stance" in keeping grazing fee going to help the country?
Anyone who can do simple math would tell you eliminating BsLM's paycheck and related costs in having to watch, round up, kill cows, bury them, litigation costs, send armed forces to collect fines all for the sake of upholding the fees will save taxpayers more money and there'll still be more than enough leftover to preserve nature. Only born-yesterday's would believe grazing fees were imposed for nature preservation. Lol.

a reply to: AlphaHawk

Hey.. thanks. I stand corrected and updated.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000
Did you know the feds paid cowboys to round up the Bundy cattle?

Do you know how much they paid them to do it?

How much does Bundy actually owe the feds? Not the figure touted by the MSNBC types, the actual amount according to the government.

a reply to: AlphaHawk

Very odd they weren't branded.

I think they call them mavericks.
They are the cattle that are missed in a roundup and are not branded because of that. They were common in open range cattle operations.