MH370 missing (Part 2)

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

If the plane landed on water without breaking up, the pilots must have been conscious and controling the aircraft, the water must have been very calm.
After a succesfull landing on water there is time for people to open the doors and get out of the plane, wait for help which obviously did not came.
An aircraft would implode because of the pressure when it sinks to the bottom of the sea unless the doors were open and the pressure inside as well as outside are the same.

So it would not leave a debris field, but we should have seen life rafts and life jackets, suitcases with belongings maybe?

I thought we should have this information which explains a little about the underwater pingers.

A Dukane spokesperson has previously acknowledged that the 33.331kHz pings were what could be expected. The oscillator is not Xtal controlled, being a resistive/capacitive oscillator with the low Q transducer forming part of the circuit.

I have read that the Indian Ocean has mountainous seas so I dont think that a glide into it would result from a nice calm landing. Not like landing in a river or lake for example. There would be debris.

The same group that I believe Hijacked the plane and who's claims of responsibility have been ignored is trying to be heard again.

www.voanews.com...

I find it really hard to believe that they can't find a single piece of this plane after months of searching, yet searchers found debris from this boat within a few days time.....

Source

Debris has been spotted in the search for four British sailors, whose boat capsized last week in the mid-Atlantic.

According to The Telegraph, the captain of the boat searching for the Cheeki Rafiki spotted a plank of wood and a plastic board.

He has passed the details on to the U.S. Coast Guard.

The yacht had been returning to England from a regatta in Antigua on May 16 when the crew reported taking on water about 1,000 miles east of Massachusetts.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I find it really hard to believe that they can't find a single piece of this plane after months of searching, yet searchers found debris from this boat within a few days time.....

Source

Debris has been spotted in the search for four British sailors, whose boat capsized last week in the mid-Atlantic.

According to The Telegraph, the captain of the boat searching for the Cheeki Rafiki spotted a plank of wood and a plastic board.

He has passed the details on to the U.S. Coast Guard.

The yacht had been returning to England from a regatta in Antigua on May 16 when the crew reported taking on water about 1,000 miles east of Massachusetts.

I'm starting to believe the thing is in the belly of a Mothership on it's way to hell knows where. someone should have found something.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I find it really hard to believe that they can't find a single piece of this plane after months of searching, yet searchers found debris from this boat within a few days time.....

They spotted debris after a few days time when MH370 disappeared also, it just wasn't confirmed to come from MH370, and I don't see where in that article anything is confirmed about the debris found being from the missing boat.

More importantly, if a boat goes missing for 8 hours, when you draw a circle around its last known location, the circle isn't very big. When you draw an 8 hour circle for a plane, the radius is maybe 25 times larger, and since search area is related to the square of the radius, 25x25 = 625, so the plane search area may be 625 times larger, roughly speaking, depending on the speed of the boat and other factors.

a reply to: qmantoo

Good information, but when I see the frequency specification on the pinger is 37.5 +/- 1 kHz, I scratch my head at the incongruency of the +/- 1 kHz specification with the frequency not being controlled and dipping to 33.3 kHz, especially since I don't think it's that hard to control it, and especially considering they are paying about 25,000 USD for these black boxes so it's not like these are ultra-cheap commodity items (though I don't know how much of that is the pinger component).

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I take it Dukane are the company who manufactured the pinger that was used on MH370? If so then I would assume the spokesperson would know what they're talking about,but I also find it VERY hard to believe that a piece of equipment as important as this could be built using parts available from Maplins (a hobby electronics shop in just about every town in the UK) for about £10 if he is correct about the R/C oscillator.As I've said before,I thought it was the aviation safety rules that said it HAD to be 37.5 +/- 1 Khz,if so how do they get away with them being so far out of spec?

originally posted by: Imagewerx
As I've said before,I thought it was the aviation safety rules that said it HAD to be 37.5 +/- 1 Khz,if so how do they get away with them being so far out of spec?

I can't confirm if it's in the aviation safety rules or not. I can confirm it is on the manufacturer's specification sheet. I posted a link to that in the first thread.

There should probably be some new efforts to make it a rule if it's not, and to maintain that frequency better. The manufacturers already offer 90 day batteries but since 30 days is the requirement I don't think the 90 day batteries sell much, though that may change, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they make the 90 day batteries a new rule.

Also maybe animal tagging frequencies should avoid using 37.5kHz +/- 3kHz so that frequency can be reserved for missing aircraft. I don't know of any such rule now but it seems like it would help, since I wouldn't be surprised if the pings heard were from animal tags.

JACC search update
Daily Main 23May14

Audio recordings of the 'ping' signals believed to have come from the black box of Flight MH370 will now not be released as doubt grows over whether they are connected with the missing plane.

The Joint Agency Coordination Centre (JACC) headed by Angus Houston told the Herald Sun that the search group's original confidence the four accoustic 'ping' signals were from the plane had warned and the recordings would not be made public.

'The recordings of the detections will not be released at this point in time,' the JACC said.

'We continue to pursue this lead to either discount or confirm the area of the detections as the final resting place of MH370.'

No official confirmation of this yet.

There is no reason for so much information to be kept secret. It seems to show a CYA situation for one or more groups.

Pretty cool how groups take tax money, use it and then keep the results gained with it from the people.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I thought they only used acoustic pingers in the water because of how severely it attenuates RF (Radio Frequencies),and out of the water they use only RF beacons?

originally posted by: Imagewerx
a reply to: Arbitrageur

I thought they only used acoustic pingers in the water because of how severely it attenuates RF (Radio Frequencies),

Yes

and out of the water they use only RF beacons?

There was a proposal to incorporate radio frequency transmitters (ELTs) into the FDR and CVR, but I don't think it was ever implemented, so we are talking audio frequencies only for those units. The aircraft itself has ELTs but they aren't attached to the FDR and CVR like the acoustic pingers are, unless someone knows something I don't.

Another interesting post at pprune to do with scramble times. Apparently the shortest scramble time is about 5 minutes where crew are waiting for the 'go' at the aircraft but no engines running. Then it is 15 minutes where flight crew are in huts nearby the fighters, then it is a couple of hours where crew are on call at home. It is likely that these countries would not have been prepared for these scramble types since it is expensive in salaries or needs more people to man a base like this. I hope I have got the gist of the post on pprune correct.

The former PM of Malaysia says the whole ocean search is a waste of time.

Boeing and "certain agencies" know exactly where the plane is.

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: Psynic
More importantly to me, they mention that Inmarsat's data is finally going to be released (maybe on May 27), though that news broadcast says it will only be their raw satellite data for MH370. The guests thought that wasn't good enough because Inmarsat also looked at their data for other aircraft to determine if the track was northbound or southbound, and nothing has been said about releasing that data from other aircraft. We will have to see what comes out but if they don't release all the data they used to come to their conclusion to the public, then how do they expect the public to come to the same conclusion?

Apparently this comparison to other aircraft was something they felt they needed to do. So why not share that too?

MH370 raw data from Inmarsat may be released on Tuesday

At first I had faith in science and their work. Now I do not. I have the feeling what will be released is doctored. They might use the actual and take the chance of others pointing out their interpretation was just a guess but I doubt that.

Money (stock price), etc. is at stake wit INMARSAT.

This whole affair is starting to look like a grand scale CYA. Any piece of data from any source requires the group that releases it to be sure they are not tied into it too tightly.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

More importantly, if a boat goes missing for 8 hours, when you draw a circle around its last known location, the circle isn't very big. When you draw an 8 hour circle for a plane, the radius is maybe 25 times larger, and since search area is related to the square of the radius, 25x25 = 625, so the plane search area may be 625 times larger, roughly speaking, depending on the speed of the boat and other factors.

Your math is off a bit.
Boat search area in your example = 1962 square miles.
Flight 370 = 50,240,000 square miles.
Since small floating debris (seat cushions) can only been seen 200 feet each side of a plane (under ideal conditions), each mile would take at least 13 passes to fully cover.

a reply to: qmantoo

For someone "in the business" he must have a lousy memory.

Alert 5 means they have five minutes to be airborne from the time they're notified. Pilots are on the aircraft, engines are running.

Alert 10 means pilots are on the aircraft, strapped in, but engines are off.

Alert 15 is the standard posture of most forces. Aircraft are in the shelter, straps situated, g suit hanging on the crew ladder. The crews are in the shed, and are allowed short trips out, as long as they can get back and be airborne in the required time.

The search for MH370 continues


Australian ATSB PDFs released 26th May 2014

Considerations Fact Sheet
Mapping the ocean floor
The intensified underwater search for MH370

a reply to: qmantoo

"The intensified underwater search for MH370".

That's pure disinformation.

Bluefin 21 broke down a month ago and hasn't been back.

A single underwater search vehicle does not make an "INTENSIFIED" search, especially if it's back in Perth being repaired.

What are the rest of the worlds underwater search vehicles doing these days? Even the Santa Maria has been located!

Australia is playing it's role as Underwater (pretend) Search Cordinators, reporting having found "substantive evidence" here and performing a "comprehensive search" there while in fact all there doing is dicking around, stalling for time until the public recollection of MH370 is as faded as memories of Amelia Earhart.