The Catholic Kill-joys who condemn Sister Cristina

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

Seventh Day Adventists think that anyone not having Saturday as their main day of worship of God are going to hell. Those beliefs are just as whacky as the Catholic beliefs of only traditional Catholics are going to heaven ... just as whacky as the Church of Christ fundamentalist teachings that only Church of Christ fundamentalists are going to heaven ... etc. The Seventh Day Adventists have their interpretation of scripture but the vast majority of Christians disagree with it due to their own interpretations of scripture. And if their interpretation says Jesus didn't drink wine .. they are dead wrong.

markosity1973

researcher88

Yeah, just love your post, he was a Jew, we believe he existed yet Jews don't......amen

Well, for the longest time there was not even any physical proof that Pontius Pilate, the governer of Judea whom had Jesus crucified existed either. The romans did an extraordinary job of erasing anything to do with Jesus and Pontius pilate from their history books, until.....

In 1961 the archaeological world was taken back to the first century Roman province of Judea. A group of archaeologists, led by Dr. Antonio Frova were excavating an ancient Roman theater near Caesarea Maritima. Caesarea was a leading city in the first century located on the Mediterranean Sea. A limestone block was found there with a surprising inscription. The inscription, on three lines, reads: …]S TIBERIVM …PON]TIVS PILATVS …PRAEF]ECTVS IVDA[EA] The inscription is believed to be part of a larger inscription dedicating a temple in Caesarea to the emperor Tiberius. The inscription clearly states, “Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea.” The inscription is significant on several levels.

I'm not saying that as an Atheist you need to believe now, but it's an interesting thing to know that Pontius Pilate, the one mentioned in the new testament was real.

Source

Thank you for posting this, it is now subject to further research....I always thought that Noah and the ARC were some sort of religious scam, but have recently woken to the new discoveries, I do now think that they must have existed. where to place them is going to be tough. Hey we must just keep an open mind...I just love ATS, the people here make a lot more sense and its virtual.

markosity1973

researcher88

Yeah, just love your post, he was a Jew, we believe he existed yet Jews don't......amen

Well, for the longest time there was not even any physical proof that Pontius Pilate, the governer of Judea whom had Jesus crucified existed either. The romans did an extraordinary job of erasing anything to do with Jesus and Pontius pilate from their history books, until.....

In 1961 the archaeological world was taken back to the first century Roman province of Judea. A group of archaeologists, led by Dr. Antonio Frova were excavating an ancient Roman theater near Caesarea Maritima. Caesarea was a leading city in the first century located on the Mediterranean Sea. A limestone block was found there with a surprising inscription. The inscription, on three lines, reads: …]S TIBERIVM …PON]TIVS PILATVS …PRAEF]ECTVS IVDA[EA] The inscription is believed to be part of a larger inscription dedicating a temple in Caesarea to the emperor Tiberius. The inscription clearly states, “Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea.” The inscription is significant on several levels.

I'm not saying that as an Atheist you need to believe now, but it's an interesting thing to know that Pontius Pilate, the one mentioned in the new testament was real.

Source

Thank you for posting this, it is now subject to further research....I always thought that Noah and the ARC were some sort of religious scam, but have recently woken to the new discoveries, I do now think that they must have existed. where to place them is going to be tough. Hey we must just keep an open mind...I just love ATS, the people here make a lot more sense and its virtual.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Seventh Day Adventists think that anyone not having Saturday as their main day of worship of God are going to hell.

Incorrect. SDAs know from both Biblical exegesis and prophetic visions given to them from God that obedience to God on His Law is the test. This has always been the measure. Where most Christianity depart from following God in the 4th commandment so this will be the End Times test. We have not entered the final test period yet (which will only start when Satan first impersonates the coming of Jesus) nor has knowledge gone out properly about what the commandment means to God. No one is judged if they have no knowledge of this so don't go putting words in my mouth. Adventist also don't follow the false common misunderstanding of 'hell' either, it is the Lake of Fire that occurs at the final judgement and it involves soul annihilation, based on ones works, not some made up place upon death where one burns forever (thank RCC for spreading that fear and misrepresentation of God's character upon the world).

The Seventh Day Adventists have their interpretation of scripture but the vast majority of Christians disagree with it due to their own interpretations of scripture.

Do the vast majority of Christians think that SDAs have not scriptural justification for following 4th commandment for instance, that the bible is against them?

Catholic church says:

“Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday.” — Catholic Record, September 17, 1893 "

Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” — St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

I might just take the RCC's advice by using my logic to be an SDA (as I believe the Word of God over the authority of men)!

“Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
“Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” — Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.

Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day - Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes. Did Christ change the day’? I answer no!”
“Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons.” — James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, Md. (1877-1921), in a signed letter.

So if Jesus did not change anything then why the heck are 'Christians' not following Him???

“Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:
“1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.
Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Magazine, USA (1975), Chicago, Illinois, “Under the blessing of the Pope Pius XI”

The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who can find no warrant in its pages for the change of day from the seventh to the first. Hence their appellation, "Seventh-day Adventists". Their cardinal principle consists in setting apart Saturday for the exclusive worship of God, in conformity with the positive command of God Himself, repeatedly reiterated in the sacred books of the Old and New Testaments, literally obeyed by the children of Israel for thousands of years to this day and endorsed by the teaching and practice of the Son of God whilst on earth.

Per contra, the Protestants of the world, the Adventists excepted, with the same Bible as their cherished and sole infallible teacher, by their practice, since their appearance in the sixteenth century, with the time honored practice of the Jewish people before their eyes have rejected the day named for His worship by God and assumed in apparent contradiction of His command, a day for His worship never once referred to for that purpose, in the pages of that Sacred Volume.
...
The Israelite respects the authority of the Old Testament only, but the Adventist, who is a Christian, accepts the New Testament on the same ground as the Old: viz..an inspired record also. He finds that the Bible, his teacher, is consistent in both parts, that the Redeemer, during His mortal life, never kept any other day than Saturday. The gospels plainly evince to him this fact; whilst, in the pages of the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles, and the Apocalypse, not the vestige of an act canceling the Saturday arrangement can be found.

The Adventists, therefore, in common with the Israelites, derive their belief from the Old Testament, which position is confirmed by the New Testament, endorsing fully by the life and practice of the Redeemer and His apostles the teaching of the Sacred Word for nearly a century of the Christian era
Catholic Mirror of Sept. 2, 1893

The SDA church is the only church the Catholic church admits follows the Bible and thus respects them for being true to what the Bible actually teaches.
-------
Protestant churches
Episcopal Church:

Is there any command in the New Testament to change the day of weekly rest from Saturday to Sunday? None. (Manual of Christian Doctrine p.127)

Lutheran:

The observance of the Lord's Day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the church."The Augsburg Confession" in: Catholic Sabbath Manual, part 2, section 10

Presbyterian:

A change of the day to be observed from the last day of the week to the first. There is no record, no express command authorizing this change." (N.L. Rice, 'The Christian Sabbath', p.60)

Methodist:

Take the matter of Sunday...there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day." (H. F. Rall, 'Christian Advocate', July 2, 1942.)

Anglican:

Many people think that Sunday is the Sabbath, but neither in the New Testament nor in the early church, is there anything to suggest that we have any right to transfer the observance of the seventh day of the week to the first. The Sabbath was and is Saturday and not Sunday..." (Rev. Lionel Beere, 'Church and People', Sept. 1st 1947

Baptist:

There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday...There is no scripture evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh day to the first day of the week." (Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, (author of the Baptist Manual) New York Ministries Conference, Nov. 13, 1893.)

Actually every major 'Christian' church knows full well the only scripturally defensible interpretation is that on the SDAs, and the RCC is the most explicit in making that absolutely clear to people.

You think such a test is ridiculous. It is perfectly sensible. It is easy and enjoyable to follow, anyone Christian with scriptural knowledge should know about it and it easily sets up a decision of following God versus following man.

God says:

(Matthew 15:3,6,9) But He answered and said to them, why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?...And you void the commandment of God by your tradition...But in vain they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

-"These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men...And he said to them. 'You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions.'" Mark 7:7,9

Man opposing God says he is higher than God:

“Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday.” — Catholic Record, September 17, 1893

Simply...

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city -

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus

1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning -

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues

It is obvious the End Times test involves a message of getting other Christian ('who all wondered after the beast') to seperate themselves from what they previously knew and rather turn back to the commandments they have forgotten, particularly the one that the Creator has marked...

Revelation 14:7 He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

It is a scriptural fact that the civil government in Egypt made legislation that prevent the ancient Hebrews from keeping the Sabbath (Exodus 5:5 and entire chapter) and because of this the plagues came. The same test will cause the plagues as prophesied in the latter chapters of Revelations (that is just basic biblical parallelism).

A simple verse which one can know if Jesus advocated drinking alcohol...as the wedding feast was likely in late autumn then it is 'fresh'/unfermented wine aka grape juice.
1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own

All mental and physical faculties are to be strengthen for the useful service of God...never to be weakened or deadened.

I don't follow 'interpretations' that the Catholic church says are illogical or stupefying...the Bible or man's traditions...join the People of the Book.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs

Maybe she doesn't even believe in Satan!

Dismissing her core beliefs/the central part of her identity as myth. So a Christian that deserves extra praise is one who thinks Jesus (who she is spiritually married to) is a liar....is that accepting or rejecting her

People, remember for the time ahead. Roman Catholicism is attacked and there is coming even greater persecution

BECAUSE....

It is the faith Jesus established. One faith, one Church.

Promise now...promise me..."IF God shows you personally Roman Catholicism is the faith, you will do as He asks and
become Roman Catholic." K? The Remnant is Roman Catholic.

The four marks of Catholicism, it is one, holy, universal and apostolic.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

Dude, seriously. Enough with the bible thumping. This thread is about a nun and a talent show.

A brief rebuff of your silly Saturday / sunday argument;

Frank C. Senn in his book Christian Liturgy: Catholic and Evangelical points to data suggesting evidence of an early continuous use of a seven-day week; referring to the Jews during the Babylonian Captivity in the 6th century BCE,[8] after the destruction of the Temple of Solomon. The ancient Romans traditionally used the eight-day nundinal cycle, but after the adoption of the Julian calendar, in the time of Augustus, the seven-day week came into use. For a while, the week and the nundinal cycle coexisted, but by the time the week was officially adopted by Constantine in CE 321[9] the nundinal cycle had fallen out of use. The association of the days of the week with the Sun, the Moon, and the five planets visible to the naked eye dates to the Roman era (2nd century).

Source

The seven day week was not always seven days...... It was only the Jews who have followed it, and Lord knows if Saturday really is the original sabbath that God commanded us to celebrate upon considering our calendar comes from the Constantine adoption in 321. Constantine is also the one whom changed worship to Sunday, and we've done it ever since with no smiting whatsoever from God....

So it's a stupid argument. I think God cares less about which day we celebrate and more about the fact we celebrate at all.

FlyersFan
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

 

Seventh Day Adventists think that anyone not having Saturday as their main day of worship of God are going to hell. Those beliefs are just as whacky as the Catholic beliefs of only traditional Catholics are going to heaven ... just as whacky as the Church of Christ fundamentalist teachings that only Church of Christ fundamentalists are going to heaven ... etc. The Seventh Day Adventists have their interpretation of scripture but the vast majority of Christians disagree with it due to their own interpretations of scripture. And if their interpretation says Jesus didn't drink wine .. they are dead wrong.

edit on 4/6/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

yeah but we all get along, don't we.

interpretation and form of worship is not an obstacle in christianity.

i've been to Notre Dame and St. Peter's and it couldn't be more different than the church i belong to. lol!!
awesome places. sat in on a mass at Notre Dame. no P&W band.

unless it's the whacko's like WBC.

Jesus was flesh and probably did what people did back then. He wasn't floating around on a cloud.

He set an example. walked the talk.

hung with the dregs not the elites.

reply to post by tsingtao

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what branch of Christianity you prescribe so long as Jesus is at the centre of it. If I'm blessed enough to make it into heaven, I fully expect to see my protestant friends there too.

reply to post by markosity1973

This thread is about a nun and a talent show.

I did not realise I was meant to just lie down and be ridiculed and have false assertions made about my religion without the right of reply

silly...stupid argument

This Chart of the Week is over a hundred years old. It was prepared by Dr. William Meade Jones, a research expert in London, England. Well over a hundred languages prove that the week, everywhere, has seven days;—and that, in most languages, the native word for the seventh day is "Sabbath" (which means "rest" or "rest day") or "rest day."

Jones, a well-known British researcher, decided that since Scripture clearly shows that the Bible Sabbath was first given to mankind at the end of Creation Week, then two important facts would have had to be known throughout the ancient world: First, a fixing of the seven-day weekly cycle on a worldwide basis and, second, an ancient worldwide knowledge of the seventh-day Sabbath.
Chart of the week

We have had occasion to investigate the results of the works of specialists in chronology and we have never found one of them that has ever had the slightest doubt about the continuity of the weekly cycle since long before the Christian era.
source: Letter regarding continuity of the weekly cycle, US Naval Observatory (Washington DC: March 12, 1932)

"By calculating the eclipses, it can be proven that no time has been lost and the creation days were seven, divided into 24 hours each."—Dr. Hinkley, The Watchman, July 1926 [Hinkley was a well-known astronomer].

"The human race never lost the septenary [seven day] sequence of week days and that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, though the ages, without a single lapse."—Dr. Totten, professor of astronomy at Yale University.

"Seven has been the ancient and honored number among the nations of the earth. They have measured their time by weeks from the beginning. The origin of this was the Sabbath of God, as Moses has given the reasons for it in his writings."—Dr. Lyman Coleman.

"There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in any way the cycle of the week."—James Robertson, Director American Ephemeris, Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., March 12, 1932.

"It can be said with assurance that not a day has been lost since Creation, and all the calendar changes notwithstanding, there has been no break in the weekly cycle."—Dr. Frank Jeffries, Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and Research Director of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.

The seven day week was not always seven days...... It was only the Jews who have followed it

The information presented suggests your assertions is incorrect. The 'chart of the week' link has a MS Word document showing hundreds of isolated and ancient languages that use the 7 day cycle where the 7th day is understood as the special rest day. African languages as particularly interesting.

we've done it ever since with no smiting whatsoever from God

Do you expect God to direct every one of your actions by fear (although it is possible to make a case for blessings the people have not received)...How you are meant to love and follow God is clearly written...it is there to be found, faith merely not to follow what seemingly everyone else does but what God wants. It is not about a social club. God wants our whole life

There is actually very interesting history I could add about all the various places around the world that keep the Sabbath after the actions of Constantine and what the RCC did to those Christians they could not compel to follow Sunday. I will leave it out. Also I could add lots of info how the sun is the main symbol of Satan and that keeping his day, the day of the sun is fairly close to spitting in Jesus' face (luckily He looks past/winks at ignorance)...

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

That's putting lipstick on a pig. Seventh Day Adventists preach that unless people have Saturday as their main day of worship, then the person isn't following God's law and therefore they don't go to heaven. Period. And being rabidly and blindly anti-Catholic, they blame the Catholic church for this supposed evil sin.

So obviously whatever their interpretation of scripture ... it's automatically unbelievable.
If THEY want to buy their own rhetoric ... fine. But the vast majority of Christians know better.

Therefore .. your comments about the nun flashing 'devil signs' is beyond silly. It's just more of the anti-Catholic Seventh Day Adventist rhetoric. And your comments about how Jesus didn't drink any fermented drinks ... poppy cock. History shows otherwise.

The nun sang beautifully. She didn't flash devil signs. The end.

FlyersFan

The nun sang beautifully. She didn't flash devil signs. The end.

Amen to that!

Wow people are still Catholics? wow who ever knew

To get us back on topic,

If those of us who like what Sister Cristina did, and have been wondering when she will sing again, here's the link

The Voice Italy Website

It looks like they are still auditioning to complete the coaching teams, and there is some good talent there in Italy.

reply to post by Destinyone


I was raised in a pretty strict Catholic household and I don't see the issue with her. If you believe that God gives people talents then you must believe that you must use said talent. Look at the parable of the talents in the Bible. Not using you talent would be a sin according to that parable. She didn't dress immodestly nor did she sing blasphemous or sexual lyrics.

I kind of get the point of the Catholic Traditionalists who think that the Church has been too secularized and tries to be too hip at times and tries to be too modern for its own good. They might have some valid points in general, but I disagree with bitching at the nun who didn't do anything wrong that I could see. Heck, she even is in the proper nun uniform and one thing the traditionalists bitch about is nuns and priests going about in regular clothes.

The only criticism I could suggest is that when you wear a uniform of an organization, you are a representative of that organization and you shouldn't do anything while in uniform that may embarrass said organization. Given that the Pope (her "boss" as it were) seemed okay with it, then I don't even think that standard applies in her case.

reply to post by FlyersFan

the person isn't following God's law and therefore they don't go to heaven.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

Romans 2:12-16 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Hebrews 6:4-8 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying again the Son of God and are holding him up to contempt. Ground that drinks up the rain falling on it repeatedly, and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is worthless and on the verge of being cursed; its end is to be burned over.

If there is no sense of obedience to God still then how is it possible for the once faithful then able to fall away...whose end will be burned over. If there is no law then there is no judgement, and the reason for the fallen angels to be destroyed is pointless as they have now broken supposedly nothing, Earth thus is never cleaned from sin so the Earth never gets restored and Heaven never comes...so that theology breaks down instantly into an incoherent mess.

So obviously whatever their interpretation of scripture ... it's automatically unbelievable.

A theology that is consistent versus the logical ends of your assertion...an incoherent mess unable to explain any sense of purpose behind mankind creation.

And your comments about how Jesus didn't drink any fermented drinks ... poppy cock. History shows otherwise.

Deuteronomy 21:20 Then they are to declare to the elders of their city: 'Our son is stubborn and rebellious. He does not obey us. He lives wildly and is a drunkard.

Is Jesus likewise the rebellious son or the perfect sacrifice fully acceptable before the Father to make atonement.

Deuteronomy 29:6 You didn't have bread to eat or wine or anything intoxicating to drink, so that you would learn that I am the LORD your God.

SOOOO, Jesus gave them intoxicating wine to help them learn He is the Lord their God. OT passage incoherent under your view (coherent under mine)

1 Samuel 25:36-38 Then Abigail came to Nabal, and behold, he was holding a feast in his house, like the feast of a king. And Nabal’s heart was merry within him, for he was very drunk; so she did not tell him anything at all until the morning light. But in the morning, when the wine had gone out of Nabal, his wife told him these things, and his heart died within him so that he became as a stone. About ten days later, the LORD struck Nabal and he died.

Should the Lord have struck down Jesus if He was a drunk too, or caused others to be a drunk...yes.

Proverbs 23:20 Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat

So don't associate with Jesus because he is a mass purveyor of alcohol...

New Testament

Romans 13:13-14 Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.

So how can one put on the Lord Jesus Christ if the testimony of His enemies accusing Him of being a drunk were correct. Are we to assume Paul is lying here???

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

1 Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 15:34 Wake up from your drunken stupor, as is right, and do not go on sinning. For some have no knowledge of God. I say this to your shame.

Paul says people who drink alcohol are sinning and the Kingdom of Heaven is not for them (same with Galatians 5:24)

Ephesians 5:18 Don't be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, be filled with the Holy Spirit

Did Jesus come to set an example that would ruin people's lives???

1 Peter 4:1-6 Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. For the time already past is sufficient for you to have carried out the desire of the Gentiles, having pursued a course of sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties and abominable idolatries. In all this, they are surprised that you do not run with them into the same excesses of dissipation, and they malign you; but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.

Now you will have to turf out Peter's word as well...Peter says Jesus ceased from sin (suffered in the flesh) yet Paul says drinking is sin. Your theology falls apart over and over again. Jesus has no right to Judge of any man if He participated in any drunken practices.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


1 - You are off topic.
2 - You are dead wrong.

1 Timothy 5:23 - Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities

Ecclesiastes 9:7 - Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

Proverbs 31:6 - Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Deuteronomy 7:13 - And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

Amos 9:14 - And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit [them]; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

Joel 2:24 - And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.

Proverbs 3:10 - So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

Genesis 27:28 - Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine:

Genesis 14:18 - And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he [was] the priest of the most high God.

Take your fantasy about Jesus not drinking fermented drinks to the topic thread -
ATS Discussion Thread - Alcohol the Forbidden Blessing

And go watch the History Channel show - Rules of the Bible - The 'Vice' episode.
It'll educate you on the historical facts about drinking fermented drinks of that time period.

ETA .. oh ... and there are Catholics in Heaven. Your 'only those who worship God on Saturday's are going to heaven' indoctrination is setting you up for a massive surprise when you die. Good luck with that.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

Dismissing her core beliefs/the central part of her identity as myth. So a Christian that deserves extra praise is one who thinks Jesus (who she is spiritually married to) is a liar....is that accepting or rejecting her

What?

I have no idea what the above post means, if you are asking me a question, trying to read the nun's mind, or saying she thinks Jesus is a liar. Who is accepting or rejecting her? It's clear, in any case, that in Italy, where she lives, and was born/brought up, has a cultural significance to the handsign she used that is different from how you interpret it.

And it's also clear, that the audience and loads of other people find her ambassadorship to be above reproach. I'm sure she worships every day, so she's covered on the Saturday/Sunday thing as well. Or do you consider singing "working"? I think you're getting yourself all worked up over nothing.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs

I have no idea what the above post means, if you are asking me a question, trying to read the nun's mind, or saying she thinks Jesus is a liar.

Sorry for the confusion. Jesus talks many times about Satan/the devil and interacts often with people who are demonically possessed. By calling Satan a myth you are effectively saying that Jesus is a liar. Do you think it matters more to her that you like her signing or that you take a position that has the person who means the most to her and makes up her core identity as a liar?

P.S singing a secular song for entertainment is working, yes

You will be hard pressed to find a serious Adventist participate in any competition sport as it will typically be played on Saturdays. Good luck to Usain Bolt ...

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

Do you think it matters more to her that you like her signing or that you take a position that has the person who means the most to her and makes up her core identity as a liar?

I don't think it matters at all to her what I think of her or her singing. She probably does believe in Satan, and that's fine - there are, however, clergy and worshippers and so forth who understand the Bible contains mythology. Senior Priest and foremost Latin expert, Reginald Foster comes to mind:
Vatican's Latin expert no stuffy academic

He rattles off the names of some of the great thinkers who wrote in Latin:
Cicero, Galileo, Augustine, Horace, Aquinas and Ovid. Can't they be read in translation? Foster waves his hand. "That's like giving a translation of Shakespeare to a Chinese man," he says. "No doubt about it, something's going to be lost."

In an interview he did with Bill Maher, he said he'd read 10 books recently regarding the rationality of religion and how 'they say it's stupid'. When Bill said, "well, you know what's gonna happen to them, they'll be roasting in--" He interrupted "Oh, come on, 'roasting'. Pffft. That's the old Catholic thing. All that hell business.. That's all gone. That's all finished."

When Bill asked him, "So how do you convince people of what's the truth?", he answered with a shrug,"You don't. Just forget it. You just...they just have to live and die with their stupid ideas." with a wave of his hand.



I think she's doing her best to be true to her beliefs. Those closest to her are supportive. This Senior Priest would be supportive of her. Do you think it matters to her that you think she flashed the sign of the devil, that all Catholics are doomed, and she's following a "lie" to begin with?

Beyond that, I was simply making a point that you don't know her mind, her education, her culture, her intentions, or her spirit. You attributed a gesture she used to something you think is diabolical, yet you turn around and say there's no harm done if a person doesn't know any better. Are you planning to write her a strongly worded letter advising her of her folly?