The Catholic Kill-joys who condemn Sister Cristina

reply to post by DarknStormy

So for the sign being a nothing, a lot of people seem to do it in the high places and I refuse to follow them.. Idolaters. But I guess it's nothing though..

Yes, it's nothing!, because you are taking it out of context.

It's quite apparent here that no malice or 'satanic allegiance' was in play.
Wow.

reply to post by ketsuko


What? Who are the 'cool ones'?
I don't get your jibe, whatever it is. I was never a Wildcat at all, but I know some, who went to very different universities. Our mascot had nought to do with 'Wildcats'.

Sorry to trouble you. Never mind then.

ketsuko
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

I disagree. There is no sign yet that she wants to become an object of devotion by fans unless simply appearing on the show is enough for you to condemn her for that. But if being an object of adoration is becoming an idol, how does that make her different than the Pope? How many people worship the Pope, put him on a pedestal as they should be doing to God?

There is no difference, when did I say there was? Putting anyone on a pedestal to be worshipped is Idolatry and with that the same can be said for objects also.

I don't think it's wrong at all to lift your voice in song and make a joyful noise to the Lord. Now had she chosen a song that mocks values in some way I might feel differently, but the song "is really talking about the way that in relationships, the way that so many things are around you all the time to try to distract you. And even though people may talk and say whatever they may want to say, but then no one can get in the way of this" (according to the Wiki). You can take this to talk about your relationship to a significant other, or as Sister Cristina likely does, it can be your relationship with God.

There is no disrespect in worship, ever. And when she worships in such a public way, she witnesses. Her joy in faith is clear and plain for all to see.

If she miraculously wins, then we will see the truth..

babloyi
Interesting. Today I learnt that there are Christian groups that believe (and can form some sort of cogent argument) that Jesus did not drink alcohol. I mean, I knew about the Christian nature of the abolitionists in the 19th and early 20th century, but I didn't think they really had a scriptural leg to stand on. Cool to know

(and I guess in some ways more internally consistent with the rest of the Bible).

I am not sure what Christian denominations you are talking about and how they came to such a conclusion.

Jesus Christ did drink oinos (wine) (Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34). As at in these passages he was accused of being a oinopotes. Jesus did not preach against the use of wine; instead he did like most other Jews of his day. He drank wine in moderation. In ancient times it was normally diluted with water for drinking, and was one of the principal beverages at that time — as it is today.

Yes, Jesus drank alcohol.

Nobody drank plain juice or water back then because it wasn't safe.

She did a damn good job, the Church needs people like her & Pope Francis to bring the Church out of the Dark Ages
Hope she wins the competition

markosity1973
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

Ummm.... Jesus attended a wedding and turned water into wine.

Do you think he did it so they could all sit around and be boring and not drink what was probably the best wine ever?

Or did he do it to prove he is a miracle worker?

Or

Did he do it because he is a miracle worker and he supported the merriment of the soul wine provides?

God's not some stuffy boring old being in heaven sitting round aiming his finger at whomever it pleases him to scudzap. That is sooo old testament. Jesus is the new, half human and living covenant and he is about love, grace, living and devotion to the God whom he taught us to call father.

edit on 4-4-2014 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)

i bet it was better than the maneshevitz they were drinking.

lol!! no offence!

beer is Gods way to tell us He loves us; Ben franklin

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by markosity1973

 

I am not Christian. That said

"When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." John 8:7

and then some little old lady picked up a huge rock clocked the poor girl.

Jesus turned and said, "mom, sometimes you piss me off!"

lol!

reply to post by markosity1973


The music industry does a lot of damage to young people. It promotes lust and drugs and encourages a narcissistic lifestyle. The nun in question can sing all she likes but she is condoning a lifestyle that is the opposite to Church teaching. The gospels tell us to be in the world but not of it. She is glamourising the tinsel world and leading young people into an industry that routinely uses and destroys people, as Hollywood does.

The message she is sending out is that there is no difference between the religious and secular lifestyle. But there must be a difference and it must be highlighted because the world is losing sight of true spiritual values.

reply to post by EnPassant


Read the lyrics; they are quite appropriate for the Bride of Christ

reply to post by lonewolf2

lonewolf2
I am not sure what Christian denominations you are talking about and how they came to such a conclusion.

Jesus Christ did drink oinos (wine) (Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34). As at in these passages he was accused of being a oinopotes. Jesus did not preach against the use of wine; instead he did like most other Jews of his day. He drank wine in moderation. In ancient times it was normally diluted with water for drinking, and was one of the principal beverages at that time — as it is today.

Yes, Jesus drank alcohol.

Nobody drank plain juice or water back then because it wasn't safe.

All the groups that supported abolitionism in the US did so through strong christian convictions. You might do well to read the link that JesuitGarlic provided earlier in the thread that answers each and every one of your points, to show that Jesus may have drunk grape juice (which is also oinos, by the way, even if unfermented), but that he did not drink fermented grape juice.

You're the second person to make the claim that "nobody drank plain water back then because it wasn't safe". I'd like you to stop for a moment and read what you're saying and how absolutely ridiculous it is. Nobody drank plain water?! And you say the same about juice there as well? .
There is tonnes of evidence of the jews drinking unfermented grape juice at the time of Jesus (and before). Josephus (same dude people use to prove the existence of a historical Jesus) in fact said that UNFERMENTED wine was the "best" wine.

And as for water?!
Everyone has drunk water throughout the entire history of humanity. You seriously suggesting that the only source of water earlier humanity had was from when they diluted alcoholic beverages? You saying that everyone in history was stone drunk throughout the day? Was the body 75% alcohol back then? Up till what point do you think this continued exactly? Your average clear spring water or even river water (unless you were idiotic enough to drink it immediately downstream from a big city or town) was probably cleaner back then than it is now.

People weren't idiots in ancient times. They knew to look for a clean source of water. They new that running water was better than stagnant water. They knew that exposing it to sunlight was important. Egypt has been adding alum to purify water since ancient times. Boiling and filtering to clean it before drinking has been a known technique for at least the last 4000 years. The Romans had been building aqueducts since 350BC to bring clean water from outside cities for drinking and washing.

It feels silly to even have to say this, but yes, outside of a few african desert communities where they got it from sucking plants, drinking water was the main source of water for most of humanity throughout history and pre-history. This whole "nobody drank it because it was unsafe" thing seems to stem from the poor classes in the cities in the Dark ages in Europe (which was technically more backward than Roman times), but even there, it is absurd to say that nobody drank plain water.

DarknStormy
reply to post by BuzzyWigs

 

Ok then let's get back on topic - The Hand Signal

Anyway, this is something that seems to pop up a lot regarding celebrities, politicians, even the pope himself so this is not some hand signal which means nothing. It is a distinct signal of Satanism.

But just when you think you have seen it all, you see this also and to me this is more disgusting that knocking a 25 year who done it herself because if you a proud to do anything George W.Bush has and will do, you are one f/d up person.. So here's what they have at the top of the religious structure and I have no doubt that they still have it there.

So for the sign being a nothing, a lot of people seem to do it in the high places and I refuse to follow them.. Idolaters. But I guess it's nothing though..

ever see gene simmons?

or even amslam? lol, spelling.

it means, i, love, you!!! with the thumb, in sign language.

it's not the horns, that i grew up with. way before ronnie dio. (the malocchio) you need to twist your wrist to make it effective. a screwing action.
the middle finger, is the peace sign, turned around, here in HK. knuckles toward whomever.
means the same thing. FU.


i just see a lot of boneheads in the pics.

reply to post by babloyi


*Rolls eyes*

Of course the Romans had running water - they invented plumbing.

They also were great drinkers of wine.

As for what the bible says about wine; it's fairly clear

Wine = ok

Drunken debauched behaviour = not okay

Deuteronomy 7:13 - And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

Amos 9:14 - And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit [them]; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

Isaiah 28:7-8 - But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble [in] judgment.

Isaiah 5:11-12 - Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, [that] they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, [till] wine inflame them!

Source and lots more verses


I think I have made my point.......

BTW the intermingling of water and wine is at the centre of every single catholic mass. We drink it with communion. We Catholics have no problem with alcohol, so long as like most things it is done in moderation.

reply to post by markosity1973


I would also suggest that you read the link JesuitGarlic provided earlier in the thread. Am I the only one who went through it? I know it was long, but people could've skimmed the points!

Again, I'm just repeating what was written there, but "wine" or "oinos" was used as a generic term for grape juice (both fermented and unfermented) in the bible as well as in ancient secular sources, so providing verses that don't talk negatively on the drinking of "wine" is not proof either way.

Here, take a read: www.biblicalperspectives.com...

Whether the Bible says Jesus drank alcoholic beverages or not makes absolutely no difference to me. My point when I brought it up initially in this thread was that I hadn't been aware that there were Christian denominations who were against the consumption of alcohol on Christian grounds, and were able to provide cogent arguments from the Bible itself (which have been very nicely provided in that link from JesuitGarlic).

reply to post by EnPassant


OR

Sister Cristina is set to become a beacon of modesty and decency that will catch on as the 'new cool'

She is stepping out as a sheep among wolves. I admire her for her guts and conviction. Jesus never came to make friends with the rabbis and devout Jews. He hung out with the tax collectors and the other outcasts.

reply to post by babloyi


I apologise if you personally feel caught in the crossfire.

I'm just pointing out that the Christians who cite the consumption of alcohol as wrong are ignoring what the bible has to say about the issue as a whole. They are cherry picking bible verses to support a one sided argument. The bible is full of contradicitons and one needs to look at everything it says on any given topic, not just a couple of verses that support your view.

I could have picked verses that only support the consumption of alcohol or ones that condemn it. I have provided a couple on each side to try and show some balance.

Well damn since public scrutiny seems to be ignant-
I say if its going to come down to religious persecution- she is welcome to sing all she likes here in America.

As much as she wants, whenever she wants and for whatever reason she chooses to.

Dont like it? Tough noogies.

God works in mysterious ways! [Read the Entire Bible and check out the video of the nun singing again.]

Do not all things, symbols included, belong to God the Creator? [Read the Book of Genesis]

God is responsible for everything good and bad, as they send Satan directly to test us! [Read the Book of Job]

Is it not within Gods power to usurp Satan's power and principalities? [Read the Book of Revelation]

If the answers are Yes and Yes, to the questions I posed, then simply witness the works of the Lord!

markosity1973
reply to post by babloyi

 

I apologise if you personally feel caught in the crossfire.

I'm just pointing out that the Christians who cite the consumption of alcohol as wrong are ignoring what the bible has to say about the issue as a whole. They are cherry picking bible verses to support a one sided argument. The bible is full of contradicitons and one needs to look at everything it says on any given topic, not just a couple of verses that support your view.

I could have picked verses that only support the consumption of alcohol or ones that condemn it. I have provided a couple on each side to try and show some balance.

yeah, but the koran has no contradictions, so it must be all truth, according to 1 bronze age guy who couldn't even write.

reply to post by tsingtao


Well, considering this is about a Christian nun singing on a secular talent show and being condemned for it by her Christian brethren, I fail to see how a Muslim opinion is relevant or what alcohol has to do with the OP any way.

I regret bringing up the argument of Jesus turning water into wine now, lol.

These 'people' all condemn Sister Cristina because she doesnt fit the stereotypical nun, someone praying and living a lifetime vow of silence. They want to keep her in that little box, cloistered away and silent. Why? because in their pathetic narrow minds, she's having fun, and this fun (remember, this is in their minds) will lead to lustful thoughts, which she will act upon, which is evil and she will lose her soul to the devil.
I call BS on that. Let her sing in her joy. Let her sing in her witness to her Lord.
Narrow, hidebound thinking needs to end. These older fools wont live for too much longer.
The Church needs breaths of fresh air like this young lady and the current Pope.