America: The cursed burnt offering for the age to come.

let me see if i can remember this correctly.


preterists believe that revelation was fulfilled back in the days following jesus' death. for this, they quote daniel and the statue of empires of neb's dream. the toes of the statue, they say, would have to be exceedingly long and therefore, out of proportion with the rest of the statue, for it to still be a future event.

it seems the toes are not long, rather, the toes are complete. so how then do we add empires 6, 7 and 8 of revelation to the statue? we don't have to. the toes ARE 6, 7 and 8 as well. in effect, the wounded as if unto death antichrist empire, is the same one as the last one in daniel. it's just pretending it's no longer in control, but secretly it's still in control of empires 6, 7 and 8. you understand the toes are not elongated, just really good at shape shifting.

so preterism is wrong and so is futurism. it isn't entirely futuristic nor is it entirely preteristic, but it is the toes set on repeat, repeat, repeat, with the same guys in charge

a reply to: Maigret

In the context of what the Son was talking about when he mentioned the 'Abomination of Desolation' as spoken of by Daniel, he was telling his disciples 'the signs of his coming [return] and what would happen at the end of the age', which puts it in a future timeframe.

It was in the future at the moment when Jesus was there talking to his disciples.
In that same generation, as Jesus stipulated, those things would come to pass, which they did in 70 AD when the Romans wrecked the city of Jerusalem and leveled the temple.
What was then the future is to us now the past.
The end of the Age is described in the New Testament as the Christian age, what ended was the age where people needed a temple.

a reply to: Maigret

The Son of God knew exactly what he was talking about! Daniel is a sealed book until the 'time of the end' Daniel 12:4, which ties in nicely and precisely with Matthew Chapter 24:3 when the Son was talking about 'the end of the age', when he mentioned Daniel's 'abomination of desolation' in verse 15.

"The End" that Daniel was talking about could mean just the culmination of whatever he was describing, including a devastating enemy attack.

a reply to: Maigret

The Israelites that will constitute the Biblical Israel have been protected by God all along, because they have rejected the Christian version, which is that Jesus is God - God the Son, second person of a triune godhead, etc. When the time is right, they will emerge, just as the Messiah prophesied in his reference to the Fig Tree. Matthew 24:32

There is no "Biblical Israel " in the future outside of Christianity.
Jesus was using an analogy using signs in nature to tell seasons.
He was not using a fig tree as an analogy about a particular people.

the beast that was, is not, yet is, is the last empire on the statue of daniel. it was an empire that appears not to be in control anymore, but is in control and has been in control of the world since it first became an empire.

so anybody remember the toes of the statue of daniel? that empire is the same one in control of the world today. empires 6, 7 and 8 of revelation are just the beast that was, is not, yet is, using other nations to maintain its power and dominion, as a front. it never actually stopped being in control.

a reply to: undo

so preterism is wrong and so is futurism.

I don't know what that was that you were describing but it isn't a standard version of Preterism.
Preterism believes that the tribulations already happened.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Isn't this more of a prophecy and prediction type thread and not so much a conspiracy in religion thread? Well I guess with you (false) claims about Amerigo, you can claim a sort of conspiracy. Oh well, at least you give us a date for the end of the world. 9/16/2016. So on September 17th, 2016, when nothing of what you said happens, will you come and apologize to everyone for misleading everyone with a false prediction? Well at least now I know a good date to have a party on. These end of the world parties always turn out to be regular parties though... Kind of loses its magic after awhile.

I guess this post is my placeholder.

a reply to: undo

the beast that was, is not, yet is, is the last empire on the statue of daniel.

"The beast that was, is not, yet is" is the primordial world which was put under subjection in Genesis 1.
If it comes back, then the entire world is in jeopardy of going back into chaos.
As it was viewed by the ancients at the time Revelation was written, wholesale extreme violence could bring about the end of human existence because Heaven could not tolerate the suffering involved.
This is way at the end of a battle they would systematically go through and kill all the wounded, so the gods wouldn't hear them crying.
Jesus said where the vultures are, there the bodies lie, meaning that you couldn't hide the killing from
heaven.
If you have a great war machine apparently rolling over the entire earth, then the gods just might wipe out all life in one fell swoop to prevent the prolonged agony.
Rather than all of that, a truly loving God would just destroy that beast.
Revelation says that just that will happen.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: undo

so preterism is wrong and so is futurism.

I don't know what that was that you were describing but it isn't a standard version of Preterism.
Preterism believes that the tribulations already happened.

that was my point. one of the rationales for the interpretation that the events have already happened is that of the statue of empires in daniel. remember nebuchadnezzar's statue dream? daniel told him that each section of the statue was represented by an empire. these empires would span the history of earth, starting with the head of the statue, that was the babylonian empire and ending with the feet of the statue which is the final world empire. that accounts for 5 empires. yet revelation lists 3 more, #6, #7 and #8. those are simply the last empire of daniel, repeating. so although some of the events of revelation have already occured, not all of them have. and those that haven't, are part of the events listed in conjunction with the last empire, repeating via various facades -- countries used to fulfill the beast system goals, sometimes unwittingly, only to find out they are part of the problem.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Metaphoric visions are always revealed in scripture, whether revealed by an interpreter, by angel or by God Himself, the reader is never left having to guess. Unless instructed by scripture otherwise, the bible is to be taken literally.

That is completely wrong.
Where do you get these ideas from?
So to you, wise people will shine like the sky, and good teachers will shine like stars.
Now about the entire chapter 12 of Revelation?
Do you expect to one day look up and see a woman standing on the moon?

Its pretty obvious that the woman in Rev 12 is a reference to Jacobs dream in Genesis 37:9-10, where again, the meaning of the symbol was directly revealed.

Use your common sense man!

Where do get the idea that you can take the bible as symbolism at your own personal convenience? That is my question to you. There is no objectivity in pure "allegorism", only subjection to the flawed human mind.

a reply to: undo
The "beast that was, is not, yet is" is Nimrod/Apollyon. He is the Anti-christ that rises from the Abyss.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: undo
The "beast that was, is not, yet is" is Nimrod/Apollyon. He is the Anti-christ that rises from the Abyss.

he represents an empire, though, so just saying it's him, ain't enough information. i had an interesting interview on my blogtalk radio show on this subject, with a guy named peter goodgame. he pretty much agrees with your view however, he says they aren't empires but kings, specific leaders of empires, with the last one being a fake osiris / nimrod scenario. here's the interview if you wish to hear him and i discuss it, although i had laryngitis at the time lol
www.thelivingmoon.com...

a reply to: undo

I agree, that Nimrod would represent his kingdom by association. Ive actually read Mr. Goodgame's book "The Second Coming of the Antichrist". I found it to be very stimulating. I also believe that the fact that both Apollyon and the Antichrist are represented by the same '7 headed dragon' that it reveals Nimrod's dual genetic nature as the 'angel-man' ("number of a man" and "angel of the abyss"). There is no way that Apollyon could rise as a full-blooded angel if the antediluvian fallen watchers are locked away until the final judgment. Therefore, Apollyon and his army must be nephalim.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: undo

I agree, that Nimrod would represent his kingdom by association. Ive actually read Mr. Goodgame's book "The Second Coming of the Antichrist". I found it to be very stimulating. I also believe that the fact that both Apollyon and the Antichrist are represented by the same '7 headed dragon' that it reveals Nimrod's dual genetic nature as the 'angel-man' ("number of a man" and "angel of the abyss"). There is no way that Apollyon could rise as a full-blooded angel if the antediluvian fallen watchers are locked away until the final judgment. Therefore, Apollyon and his army must be nephalim.

problem with associating nephilim as all evil, is that king david had nephilim members of his army. one of them alone, killed 800 men by himself in one encounter. so unless you're prepared to suggest king david had evil guys helping him win his battles, you might want to re-read the entirety of the old testament with a concordance so you can see all the details you don't normally get from a pulpit, sunday school, study guide or radio show.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I don't think America is evil, maybe the people running the country are but most people are ok kinda people.

a reply to: LucidLucinda

I agree that most Americans have good personalities, but I also believe that America has almost unanimously put God last. When this happens, our priorties become confused, we let down our guard, and evil takes root in places of authority.

America is a body, the citizens are the immune system, and corrupt forces are the dormant pathogens that constantly dwell within the body. When the immune system is suppressed, the pathogens multiply. If the process is not reversed, it will eventually reach the point of no return. This is the case for America.

a reply to: undo

Oh, I dont associate all nephilim as evil, just specifically Apollyon and his army.

I believe that Jesus died as a man not only for men, but for everything between men and angels, including nephilim. Man is the lowest free-will creation, while angels are the highest of the free-will creation. I believe that by coming as a man, Jesus was able to pay for the sins of ALL sinners: man to nephilim to angel.

a reply to: undo

that accounts for 5 empires. yet revelation lists 3 more, #6, #7 and #8.

I don't know who uses that system but I would say that it is the result of a flawed interpretation.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Maigret

In the context of what the Son was talking about when he mentioned the 'Abomination of Desolation' as spoken of by Daniel, he was telling his disciples 'the signs of his coming [return] and what would happen at the end of the age', which puts it in a future timeframe.

It was in the future at the moment when Jesus was there talking to his disciples.
In that same generation, as Jesus stipulated, those things would come to pass, which they did in 70 AD when the Romans wrecked the city of Jerusalem and leveled the temple.
What was then the future is to us now the past.
The end of the Age is described in the New Testament as the Christian age, what ended was the age where people needed a temple.

Your theory doesn't fit the overall scenario. It is all about the 'end of the age' and the 'time of the end', and there have been about 2,000 years since then, with no signs of it being the end of anything!

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Its pretty obvious that the woman in Rev 12 is a reference to Jacobs dream in Genesis 37:9-10, where again, the meaning of the symbol was directly revealed.

That doesn't reveal anything. For one thing, The Old Testament doesn't interpret the New Testament.

Where do get the idea that you can take the bible as symbolism at your own personal convenience? That is my question to you. There is no objectivity in pure "allegorism", only subjection to the flawed human mind.

Like you said, use your common sense. Just because it doesn't say "hello, this is just figurative" doesn't mean that it is not. Half of what we say is using words in their figurative sense.