America: The cursed burnt offering for the age to come.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: undo

Oh, I dont associate all nephilim as evil, just specifically Apollyon and his army.

I believe that Jesus died as a man not only for men, but for everything between men and angels, including nephilim. Man is the lowest free-will creation, while angels are the highest of the free-will creation. I believe that by coming as a man, Jesus was able to pay for the sins of ALL sinners: man to nephilim to angel.

but apollyon and his army, are carrying out the will of god and even selectively refrain from attacking those with the mark of god in their foreheads. at least, that's what it says
if they were the beast system, they would attack those with the mark of god, not the opposite. this whole scenario i have went over in my head repeatedly, trying to detangle it

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Maigret

The Son of God knew exactly what he was talking about! Daniel is a sealed book until the 'time of the end' Daniel 12:4, which ties in nicely and precisely with Matthew Chapter 24:3 when the Son was talking about 'the end of the age', when he mentioned Daniel's 'abomination of desolation' in verse 15.

"The End" that Daniel was talking about could mean just the culmination of whatever he was describing, including a devastating enemy attack.

You like to be contrary - for the sake of it; just so as not to agree with anyone; which only puts you on the wrong foot as far as the general context of what ATS is all about. ATS is about sharing important news and information, which is not available in the general media, to the benefit of us all.

Anyone reading Daniel Chapter 12 would know how weak your idea is! It is a time when 'those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt' Daniel 12:2 You can't link this event to anything around AD70.

a reply to: Maigret

Your theory doesn't fit the overall scenario. It is all about the 'end of the age' and the 'time of the end', and there have been about 2,000 years since then, with no signs of it being the end of anything!

No, because the end of that age already happened.
Hebrews 9:26b
But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
(2011 NIV)

a reply to: undo

I see your point, but even Satan is restrained by God. Remember that Apollyon does kill the two witnesses. God protects the believers during Apollyon's initial rise.

Think about this. If Apollyon is the Antichrist, why would the world sign a treaty with him? Maybe to stop the assault he will carry out on the non-believers. Apollyon's massacre is about conquest. The false prophet will sign a covenant with him to co-opt his authority over Jerusalem and the world...a "covenant with death."

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Maigret

The Israelites that will constitute the Biblical Israel have been protected by God all along, because they have rejected the Christian version, which is that Jesus is God - God the Son, second person of a triune godhead, etc. When the time is right, they will emerge, just as the Messiah prophesied in his reference to the Fig Tree. Matthew 24:32

There is no "Biblical Israel " in the future outside of Christianity.
Jesus was using an analogy using signs in nature to tell seasons.
He was not using a fig tree as an analogy about a particular people.

Here we go again...

My answer is that there is no Christianity within the Bible. There is only Israel. Even Isaac Newton knew, from reading and studying his Bible that there would be a 'new' religion that was very different to Christianity. This is partly why in the Christian faith, there are so many questions unanswered and also why there are so many differing denominations.

Please take note! I have nothing against Christians - many of them will become Israelites; but only if they are free to question, to check and verify what they've been taught, and to adhere to the Bible above anything they're told!

isaac-newton.org...

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Maigret

Your theory doesn't fit the overall scenario. It is all about the 'end of the age' and the 'time of the end', and there have been about 2,000 years since then, with no signs of it being the end of anything!

No, because the end of that age already happened.
Hebrews 9:26b
But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
(2011 NIV)

That's my point! The culmination of the ages hasn't happened yet! So sin is not yet done away with - as evidenced by all the sin in the world today. When he does away with it - there will be no more sin, not even a smidgen of it anywhere! What a different world this will be then.

a reply to: Maigret

Anyone reading Daniel Chapter 12 would know how weak your idea is! It is a time when 'those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt' Daniel 12:2 You can't link this event to anything around AD70.

What version is that?
All the versions that I see say something like "many of those who sleep . . ."
According to the gospels, many did rise in connection with Jesus' death and resurrection.
The New American Standard Bible version says,
"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

it seems to differentiate people into two groups, where the ones he is talking about, "these", will be raised to life, and "the others" may mean people raised at some later date.

originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: undo

Oh, I dont associate all nephilim as evil, just specifically Apollyon and his army.

I believe that Jesus died as a man not only for men, but for everything between men and angels, including nephilim. Man is the lowest free-will creation, while angels are the highest of the free-will creation. I believe that by coming as a man, Jesus was able to pay for the sins of ALL sinners: man to nephilim to angel.

but apollyon and his army, are carrying out the will of god and even selectively refrain from attacking those with the mark of god in their foreheads. at least, that's what it says
if they were the beast system, they would attack those with the mark of god, not the opposite. this whole scenario i have went over in my head repeatedly, trying to detangle it

Maybe this scenario will help to disentangle the 144,000 male, virgins, and without guile - thus infants; from each of the tribes of Israel specifically 'ear-marked' by God; which the Beast is specifically barred from attacking, because they are the 'first-fruits' of God's harvesting of the earth.

The multitude which no one can number/count, will be those who will take up their crosses, go through the Tribulation, and become martyred saints, for not worshipping the Beast, etc. The Elect/ Saints are those who 'chose, and therefore are chosen'. IOW Those who have elected to follow the Son of God.

Those who chose not to go this route, to save their [physical] lives, will lose them anyway; when God vents His Wrath on the world and those who remain alive.

Those days have been shortened, otherwise no flesh would survive (Matthew 24:22), will be protected somehow by God, during this time of His venting His anger and the resultant reorganising of the geography of this world.

The rest of mankind will be resurrected after the 1,000 years and will be judged specifically on their works. Revelation Chapter 20.

a reply to: Maigret

My answer is that there is no Christianity within the Bible. There is only Israel.

Only if your definition of "Bible" is the Old Testament.
The New Testament says otherwise from your statement.
Here's an example; in 1 Corinthians 10, Paul is saying how we, by drinking the cup and eating the same bread, share in Christ, then says consider Israel, and their participation in the altar, as if there was all the difference between these two peoples.

a reply to: Maigret

That's my point! The culmination of the ages hasn't happened yet! So sin is not yet done away with - as evidenced by all the sin in the world today. When he does away with it - there will be no more sin, not even a smidgen of it anywhere! What a different world this will be then.

There is the preposition "at" with culmination. In the Greek, it is epi, which means "in", so I don't see how you can avoid the connection, to put it off to some other time.
The "put away sins" part is a technical term involved in the cleansing of the sanctuary on the day of atonement.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Maigret

Anyone reading Daniel Chapter 12 would know how weak your idea is! It is a time when 'those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt' Daniel 12:2 You can't link this event to anything around AD70.

What version is that?
All the versions that I see say something like "many of those who sleep . . ."
According to the gospels, many did rise in connection with Jesus' death and resurrection.
The New American Standard Bible version says,
"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

it seems to differentiate people into two groups, where the ones he is talking about, "these", will be raised to life, and "the others" may mean people raised at some later date.

I use the RAV (Revised Authorised Bible) Bible, but the gist of the above verse is the same as in the NASB.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If those who came out of their graves at the death and resurrection were those who awoke to everlasting life... do you think that means the rest of us who've lived since then, will all be raised to everlasting contempt? To me, this idea doesn't make any sense!

Obviously, those who rose from their graves at his resurrection, died later... because they don't exist here and now; so they didn't get the promised 'everlasting life' of resurrection.

The Tribulation is described as happening before the resurrections, in Daniel 12:1 '...and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was, since there was a nation, even to that same time, and at that time, thy people shall be delivered; every one that shall be found written in the book'.

Then it says in the next verse, Daniel 12:2 [KJV] 'And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt'.

a reply to: Maigret

The Tribulation is described as happening before the resurrections, in Daniel 12:1

There are three verses that exist as a unit at the beginning of chapter 12 that discuss events of "that time".
They bring up:
Time of distress.
sleeping waking.
a description of some of the people involved.

One thing is mentioned before the other but it does not stipulate a chronology.

If those who came out of their graves at the death and resurrection were those who awoke to everlasting life... do you think that means the rest of us who've lived since then, will all be raised to everlasting contempt?

I think it would be according to this explanation that it is just saying that only the good people will be raised at that time.
We don't know if Daniel himself wasn't raised at that time and is now in Heaven with Jesus.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Maigret

That's my point! The culmination of the ages hasn't happened yet! So sin is not yet done away with - as evidenced by all the sin in the world today. When he does away with it - there will be no more sin, not even a smidgen of it anywhere! What a different world this will be then.

There is the preposition "at" with culmination. In the Greek, it is epi, which means "in", so I don't see how you can avoid the connection, to put it off to some other time.
The "put away sins" part is a technical term involved in the cleansing of the sanctuary on the day of atonement.

For me to keep track, we're discussing the verse Hebrews 9:26b 'But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.' (2011 NIV). Right?

The RAV puts it like this... 'but now, once at the end of the ages, he has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself'.

Again, both have the same gist, but the tense is wanting in English, as it appears to be past tense, whereas the specific timing is that this will happen 'at the culmination or end of the ages'.

It seems that going by the evidence of the sin that currently exists in the world and that fact that there has been no outright end/culmination; this particular [final?] Day of Atonement has not yet happened, but when it does, then his sacrifice of 2,000 years ago, as specified, comes into effect. Would this solve your Greek?

a reply to: Maigret

It seems that going by the evidence of the sin that currently exists in the world and that fact that there has been no outright end/culmination; this particular [final?] Day of Atonement has not yet happened, but when it does, then his sacrifice of 2,000 years ago, as specified, comes into effect. Would this solve your Greek?

You are missing the context of the verse in Hebrews, which was comparing what Jesus did with the services in the temple of the High Priest.
The Day of Atonement was what specific occasion on which the High Priest served.
That was what Jesus was doing according to Hebrews.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Maigret

My answer is that there is no Christianity within the Bible. There is only Israel.

Only if your definition of "Bible" is the Old Testament.
The New Testament says otherwise from your statement.
Here's an example; in 1 Corinthians 10, Paul is saying how we, by drinking the cup and eating the same bread, share in Christ, then says consider Israel, and their participation in the altar, as if there was all the difference between these two peoples.

1 Corinthians 10:18 KJV says 1Co 10:18 'Behold Israel after the flesh are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?' Note here that Paul is specifying which members of Israel he is referring to, so obviously he doesn't mean all of Israel.

Or explain this verse then, 'that at that time you were without the Messiah; being aliens from the Commonwealth of Israel, strangers to the Covenants of Promise, having no hope, and without God, in the world'? Ephesians 2:12

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Maigret

It seems that going by the evidence of the sin that currently exists in the world and that fact that there has been no outright end/culmination; this particular [final?] Day of Atonement has not yet happened, but when it does, then his sacrifice of 2,000 years ago, as specified, comes into effect. Would this solve your Greek?

You are missing the context of the verse in Hebrews, which was comparing what Jesus did with the services in the temple of the High Priest.
The Day of Atonement was what specific occasion on which the High Priest served.
That was what Jesus was doing according to Hebrews.

The Son did not serve in any earth-bound Temple as High Priest, so he could not have served in the now-destroyed Temple as High Priest on any of the Day of Atonement festivals. Caiaphas and Ananias are mentioned in the Bible as being High Priests at that time.

If you watch any of the relevant Dick Reuben videos, you'll find out how the Son by the crucifixion was ordained in the proper and Biblically prescribed manner as High Priest!

(Some of these videos are available at YouTube, but I'm not sure if any of them contain the relevant information.)

a reply to: Maigret

The Son did not serve in any earth-bound Temple as High Priest, so he could not have served in

Hello, it's a metaphor.
Hebrews is describing Jesus' work using the temple for an analogy, specifically, the work of the High Priest on the Day of Atonement.

a reply to: Maigret

Note here that Paul is specifying which members of Israel he is referring to, so obviously he doesn't mean all of Israel.

Most Bible versions translate it as people.
You are looking at just the King James.
The Greek word Sarka literally means flesh but it is usually used to mean people.
For whatever reason, the translator 400 yeas ago decided to go with a literal translation that today the translators know doesn't fit.

Or explain this verse then, 'that at that time you were without the Messiah; being aliens from the Commonwealth of Israel, strangers to the Covenants of Promise, having no hope, and without God, in the world'? Ephesians 2:12

It probably means "Christ" in a generic way.

originally posted by: Maigret

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

As far as I'm concerned, "the abomonation of desolation" was when Antiochos IV Epiphanes sacrificed a pig in honour of Zeus in the courtyard of the temple. It fulfilled the prophecy. Don't remember exactly when it happened, would have to look it up. first to second century BC unsure.

In the context of what the Son was talking about when he mentioned the 'Abomination of Desolation' as spoken of by Daniel, he was telling his disciples 'the signs of his coming [return] and what would happen at the end of the age', which puts it in a future timeframe.

The human sacrifice aka the crucifiction was the abomination Jesus talked about, and the temple he spoke of was himself. Try telling a Christian that...

Thing is, that the human sacrifice of Jesus turned him into a sacrificial beast, or the antichrist if you like, and there's a great bunch of Christians who only believes in him because of what his supposedly willing sacrifice of himself signifies. Something stinking of necromancy and dark magic really.

just an observation..... the whole lands of the Americas' (North, South, Central Americas) followed suit in beginning with an 'A'
the other Continental land masses are Asia, Africa, Arctic & Antarctic, even Australia...

the exceptions to 'A' lettered continental plates are the sub-continent India, Europe, and Oceania
so, all the major areas of the globe are begun with Vowels (A,E,I,O)
(( the missing 'U' geographical domain might be said to be the Underground middle-earth))


the whole western hemisphere is 'America' so the Thread attempt to single out just N America/USA is just not reasonable