Does Russia Being Kicked Out Of The G8 Fulfill Revelation 17:11?

stirling
This is revelations stuff......from the bible.....
The Gog Magog war needs Russia too so I doubt this is referring to it....

Is that chestnut about Gog/Magog still going around?

Let me ask:

Russia will invade Israel...why?

And they will do it using only horses and swords and shields...why?

reply to post by ElohimJD


Dude, what?

The Holy Roman Empire was defeated by Napoleon in 1806.

Cyprian
reply to post by chr0naut

 

Actually, when he wrote the Apocalypse, St. John definitely had someone in mind for the role of anti-Christ : Nero. But here's the nice thing about Scripture : different levels of meaning. Coupled with a cyclic view of Time, this means many anti-Christs, culminating in a final Big Bad. Who, unfortunately for the evangelical crowd waiting for the Super Secret Return, probably will be neither Catholic or Pope.....

Somewhere washing my cassock

There is much to indicate that the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written before the fall of Jerusalem in AD70.

John was sent to Patmos under edict from Emporer Nero.

John did not mention three of the Churches that he founded (at Colosse, Hierapolis, and Laodicea) because he knew that they were destroyed by earthquake in AD 61 so this means that the book was written after then and before AD70.

If John was referring to Nero, this narows the window in which the book could be written to between AD 61 and AD 68 (when Nero died).

My belief is that John was referring to the events preceeding the fall of Jerusalem in The Revelation of Jesus Christ.

The modern Dispensationalists have taken it that we are to await on God to bring about the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. My belief is that Jesus was quite plain and that we are to "be" the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth and that Christianity is to influence the world incrementally towards that perfect state.

This means we don't just sit around waiting for God to make things better, we actually go and make it happen.

This sits far better with what Jesus was saying in the Gospels and with what is expressed in the letters of the New Testament.

Snsoc

[
n daniel, each of the Kings is referring to Kingdoms or Empires or political systems.

Classically, these Kingdoms are believed to be as follows:

The Kingdom of Bablyon (Gold)
The Kingdom of the Medes and Pesians (Silver)
the Kingdom of the Greeks (Bronze)
The Kingdom of Pagan Roman Empire (Iron)
... and then a new "Kingdom" (Iron mixed with Clay) which is believed to represent modern political systems like Ecumenical rule, Democracy, Socialism & Communism.

It is only recently that people have been led to believe in a person of anti-christ. Prior to that anti-christ was seen as a kingdom, political movement or "spirit of the age".

That interpretation skips over the Assyrian empire, which ruled the area for 300 years, as well as the Mede empire being its own empire for 50 years before becoming the Medio-Persian empire, not to mention the Persian Achaemenid Empire, which lasted for nearly 200 years. So there were 7 empires in history in this area, not four. Therefore, the statue is not referring to them.

The statue prophecy was issued from Babylon during the height of its Empire.

The Assyrian Empire pre-dated the Babylonian. As the prophecy was given under the Babylonian Empire, the previous empire/s would not have been listed.

The Babylonians (during the rule of Emporer Nabonidus and his grandson King Belshazzar) were usurped by Cyrus the Great, who had just previously united the Median and Persian Kingdoms. There was a Medean Empire coincident with the Babylonian one but it did not control the same area as the Medo-Persian Empire did under Cyrus the Great. As far as the Archmenedid and Ottoman empires, they were Persian and extensions of the original Medo-Persion Empire.

The "Persian" Empire/s were displaced by the Greeks (Alexander the Great). Who were, in turn, replaced in that Region by the Romans.

That's four Empires.

The fifth Empire (the Iron mixed with clay) are modern democratic/ecclesiastical/socialistic empires descended from the Pagan Roman Empire (i.e: with parts of it, mixed with new ideologies).

From a historical stand point, for the area of Babylon on the Tigris & Euphrates Rivers, and going forward from the Babylonian Empire period, the statue prophecy seems to fit with what we know of the regional history.

Red Cloak


Revelation 17:11

"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."


Discuss please.

edit on 24-3-2014 by Red Cloak because: (no reason given)

In context:
Rev 17:9 And here is the meaning which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sits. Rev 17:10 And they are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space. Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, is also the eighth king, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.

The truth of this revelation came out in about 1995, during the reign of Pope John Paul II who was the sixth Sovereign King of the Vatican City, a country which was formed in 1927 with the signing of the Lateran Treaty.

Pope Benedict was the seventh King of that country - and Pope Francis is the eighth. (The seven hills are the hills of Rome - and there is an eighth hill too! - which is that Great City, that reigns over other [Catholic] monarchs/heads of countries, etc.)

The word 'antichrist' means one who is 'against' or who stands 'in place of' the true Christ; so you're looking for one person. And when you can distinguish that there are apparently two christs, you will be able to see which is the false one; and if you only see one, it is because he is in the way of your view of the true Son of God.

The phrase, 'was, is not and yet will be', which is also in Rev 17:8, means that he 'was alive, is not alive, and yet he shall be present'. That is, Satan mimics God, because he so wants to be God, that he 'resurrects' his son* from the dead. [Note, God permits this for His own purposes.]

The reference to perdition is interesting, because the only person referred to in the Bible, in John 17:12, as 'the son of perdition' is Judas Iscariot*, and there is also a reference in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 where the text is saying that the Son of God will not return until the apostasy [a falling away from former beliefs] which reveals the man of sin, the 'son of perdition'.

It is shown in Rev 17:8 that when the Son of Perdition / the Antichrist is revealed, that those whose names are NOT written in the Book of Life will marvel...

chr0naut

CirqueDeTruth
Well I'm intrigued, and eager to see what learned scholars of scripture has to say. Your thread did have me pulling up my bible to read the context of the chapter though..

Revelation 17:10-29

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the then horns which thous sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hours with the beast.

CdT

Althought there are translational and cultural confusions about this text (The Revelation of Christ was originally written in the Greek of two thousand years ago), some better understanding is to be made by looking at other Hebrew apocalyptic material like the Book of Daniel (which, I believe, is referring to the same events and time periods.

In daniel, each of the Kings is referring to Kingdoms or Empires or political systems.

Classically, these Kingdoms are believed to be as follows:

The Kingdom of Bablyon (Gold)
The Kingdom of the Medes and Pesians (Silver)
the Kingdom of the Greeks (Bronze)
The Kingdom of Pagan Roman Empire (Iron)
... and then a new "Kingdom" (Iron mixed with Clay) which is believed to represent modern political systems like Ecumenical rule, Democracy, Socialism & Communism.

It is only recently that people have been led to believe in a person of anti-christ. Prior to that anti-christ was seen as a kingdom, political movement or "spirit of the age".

These ancient civilisations are the traditional identifications of the Kingdoms referred to in Daniel, but there is no way that they will simply crumble and cease to exist when struck by the Messiah; who is the Rock cut without hand.

If you compare a timeline of these traditional kingdoms, against the religious nations that use the Holy Bible, you will see the stark difference. The King of Babylon was King over the Jewish nation at that time, thus is the Head of Gold. The next inferior silver kingdom formed in about 325 AD was the Greek/Eastern Orthodox Church, then the bronze Roman Catholic church which broke away in about 1015AD, and then the iron Protestants who broke away in about 1525AD. This second timeline continues today...

The feet of clay is not a metal, so it isn't a religious kingdom; it is a secular powerbase! This was formed by the Lateran Treaty signed in 1927 which made the Pope sovereign of a country, albeit the smallest in the world, but it put this religious leader on a secular par with the presidents, prime ministers and monarchs of other secular countries.

This powerbase has already given the Pope - Benedict, to be precise - the power and political clout to successfully negotiate with Israel, for a Seat at the Tomb of David. So it should be no surprise when the Antichrist / Abomination of Desolation (a false god/idol who will cause religious desolation) will be seen standing in the Holy Place...

Daniel was specifically sealed until the time of the end (Daniel 12:4), so it should be no surprise either that it is now an open book!

reply to post by ZincMag


1 million? heh russia beat us to 1 million decades ago by far and faster than us too, so really, "evil" is subjective and no one has claimed them as evil, just discussing predictions that point to them being the possible nation in question. honestly, no need to take offense to predictions which might not even be real, but i'll say this, in nostradamus's time russia did exist and was invading all over europe and in the process of becoming a great empire.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


Yet more aggressive posturing.

I always find it interesting when the religious use their faith as a weapon.

So, let me get this right; according to the bible, you either believe, or you are cursed/damned/condemned to hell.

Nice.

This allegedly from an omnipotent being that single-handed created the entirety of everything.

And yet, it gets touchy if I - a single man on a mere speck in one of the far flung corners of this creation - don't choose to believe in words delivered supposedly on its behalf by belligerent men?

Now, does that really make sense?

Let me put it another way; instead of this god actually being concerned that I live the way it wants me to, as opposed to my simply following the golden rule (which religion does not have the monopoly on), isn't it logical that a man-made religion would need threat and fear - curses and the promise of torture - to make people believe?

The same follows for the "prophecies" in the OP. The "learned" and faithful alike project meaning on them ad nauseum, each successive generation adding to the last.

Repetition creates authority.

On another note, read this:

Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.

Sounds pretty philosophical, doesn't it? Teaches non-judgement and fairness. Far nicer - and far more logical - than your territorial god.

It's not from any spiritual tome. Gandalf the Grey said it in Lord of the Rings.

Just because you can spout chapter and verse about curses and damnation, does not mean that you - or any desert religion - will triumph.

"The surest way to guarantee that you won`t win is to assume that you will."
— Brad Bird

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

Classic circular logic at work.
The 'proof' that it is prophecy is because the 'prophecy' says so.
And it claims that anyone who disagrees with it is going to hell.
It's the same thing that the Muslims say about the Qu'ran.

reply to post by Maigret


The Vatican isn't on the seven hills of Rome.
And Rome isn't the only city on the planet to have seven hills.
Tehran. Amman Jordan. Jerusalem. Terumala India. Yonkers NYC. Staten Island NYC.
etc etc etc PLENTY of cities on the planet. But NOT the Vatican.

reply to post by Red Cloak


Although you're Olympiakos, S&F! Great find

Ugh. Yes, isolate the despot who has a closet full of nukes. Surely this will end well, lol...

FlyersFan
reply to post by Maigret

 

The Vatican isn't on the seven hills of Rome.
And Rome isn't the only city on the planet to have seven hills.
Tehran. Amman Jordan. Jerusalem. Terumala India. Yonkers NYC. Staten Island NYC.
etc etc etc PLENTY of cities on the planet. But NOT the Vatican.

None of these other cities with seven hills fulfil the criteria or the clues...

reply to post by Beamish


Now who sounds belligerent?



Let's put it this way:

If you are an omnipotent being without whom nothing would exist, why should you feel moved to go out of your way to preserve beings who consistently turn their arrogant little backs on you and refuse to acknowledge that they wouldn't even exist without you no matter how pleasant they may or may not be to everyone around them?

If what they really want is obliteration, you might as well oblige them.

So why are you complaining about that?

As to the OP:

I don't think this has anything to do with Russia getting kicked out of the G8. In fact, while I think Russia has a part to play in prophecy, unlike the US which apparently becomes morally bankrupt and useless and therefore not worth anything. Go, us, apparently we win at something. Race to the bottom and all that. 'MURIKA!

I agree that the kingdoms reference fits better with the Daniel prophecy of the statue. We're just looking for the feet of clay now.

No one can say for sure what revelations is saying (interpret it precisely for time period or exact events it is referring to). It is one of those never ending debates. I think the OP's matchup is interesting to think about since it sure feels like we are living in these times (and present day events match to many things described).

I haven't thought of prophecy for awhile now but just a couple of days ago was wondering why the Temple area hasn't been bombed by accident or otherwise (to look like an accident) with all that goes on in Israel. That entire little area has been safe for a long time now. Maybe this is telling - let the dome stay put and build a Jewish worshiping place next to it so all can be happy. No - that's too easy.

reply to post by Beamish


I think, really, the only commandment we now have to follow is the one Jesus gave before he died...

Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you. 34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

I'm not sure how it meshes with the whole "WORSHIP ME OR BURN IN HELL FOREVER," but Jesus seems like a decent guy. And considering he was the Son of God, and the embodiment of God, I'm guessing his commandment has a decent bit of weight behind it.
Love each other, as I love you, and you're on the guestlist.

ZincMag
reply to post by Red Cloak

 

I find it idiotic to try to paint Russia as evil empire. When US and NATO has killed directly and indirectly over 1 million people in the last 14 years.

1 MILLION PEOPLE

that is a lot of dead bodies, Try to visualize it as you look for big bad bear Russia while your western tax dollars kill people and their children

Where did I say anything about Russia being an evil empire?

chr0naut

Snsoc

[
n daniel, each of the Kings is referring to Kingdoms or Empires or political systems.

Classically, these Kingdoms are believed to be as follows:

The Kingdom of Bablyon (Gold)
The Kingdom of the Medes and Pesians (Silver)
the Kingdom of the Greeks (Bronze)
The Kingdom of Pagan Roman Empire (Iron)
... and then a new "Kingdom" (Iron mixed with Clay) which is believed to represent modern political systems like Ecumenical rule, Democracy, Socialism & Communism.

It is only recently that people have been led to believe in a person of anti-christ. Prior to that anti-christ was seen as a kingdom, political movement or "spirit of the age".

That interpretation skips over the Assyrian empire, which ruled the area for 300 years, as well as the Mede empire being its own empire for 50 years before becoming the Medio-Persian empire, not to mention the Persian Achaemenid Empire, which lasted for nearly 200 years. So there were 7 empires in history in this area, not four. Therefore, the statue is not referring to them.

The statue prophecy was issued from Babylon during the height of its Empire.

The Assyrian Empire pre-dated the Babylonian. As the prophecy was given under the Babylonian Empire, the previous empire/s would not have been listed.

The Babylonians (during the rule of Emporer Nabonidus and his grandson King Belshazzar) were usurped by Cyrus the Great, who had just previously united the Median and Persian Kingdoms. There was a Medean Empire coincident with the Babylonian one but it did not control the same area as the Medo-Persian Empire did under Cyrus the Great. As far as the Archmenedid and Ottoman empires, they were Persian and extensions of the original Medo-Persion Empire.

The "Persian" Empire/s were displaced by the Greeks (Alexander the Great). Who were, in turn, replaced in that Region by the Romans.

That's four Empires.

The fifth Empire (the Iron mixed with clay) are modern democratic/ecclesiastical/socialistic empires descended from the Pagan Roman Empire (i.e: with parts of it, mixed with new ideologies).

From a historical stand point, for the area of Babylon on the Tigris & Euphrates Rivers, and going forward from the Babylonian Empire period, the statue prophecy seems to fit with what we know of the regional history.

edit on 27/3/2014 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

I grant you that made an error in researching-but let's look at this from another angle. The statue's metals decline in value over time. Silver is less than gold. Bronze is even less. Can you honestly say that the Babylonian Empire was greater than the Greek or Roman Empires? The Greeks gave us modern civilization and Rome conquered the world. Babylon gave us...the first codified law, I guess. Not bad, but still nothing like Greece and Rome.

Maigret

FlyersFan
reply to post by Maigret

 

The Vatican isn't on the seven hills of Rome.
And Rome isn't the only city on the planet to have seven hills.
Tehran. Amman Jordan. Jerusalem. Terumala India. Yonkers NYC. Staten Island NYC.
etc etc etc PLENTY of cities on the planet. But NOT the Vatican.

None of these other cities with seven hills fulfil the criteria or the clues...

I believe that Istanbul, Jerusalem, and Mecca all sit on 7 hills. Those seem to stand out as very obvious candidates, for very obvious reasons, much like Rome does. But in particular, from my knowledge of scripture, you could very easily make a strong case for Istanbul or Mecca.

So I am not so sure that you can just say Rome is this place.

Beyond that, you can very strongly also add in the symbolic references, and it can be taken that it references either New York City or Israel in general. It COULD be Rome. But the claim that it is without any doubt Rome is complete speculation and nothing more.