Canadian doctor makes anti-Obamacare senator look like a buffoon

NavyDoc

JohnnyCanuck

hounddoghowlie
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

yeah, yeah. heard it before.
that's the first thing people that are liberals or those on the left, yell when a report comes out against there stance,
see my post a couple above your above yours.

I don't need to. All I need to see is that you are lecturing me on Canadian health care based upon your politics, and I am ignoring it based upon my experience.

Fair enough. As long as you don't lecture us on US healthcare, then we're good.

It's an international forum, and this thread is about a Canadian doctor invited to testify before the senate, so I think I'm able to describe my experience in the Canadian system without fear of rebuke from you. What I take exception to is the poster I had responded to who was telling me about my Canadian experience based upon his right wing American politics...rectally sourced as it were.

How many Canandians go broke and lose their homes because of medical catastrophe's?

I am 63 and did twice. With two jobs and insurance. I swear on all I love my story is true. Our healthcare system before ACA and after is inhumane.

I should be getting a colonoscopy yearly at my age, but I haven't had insurance for seven years. Terrible way to die. I know that policies and money and political dogma is more important than that. I accept that about my country now.

The last time I had major surgery was 23 years ago... a surgical implant. It cost me dearly though... paying taxes through my life before and after.

The total amount paid to the government hardly comes close to the few thousand that operation cost. That's a given because I've had the fortune to be a fairly healthy, active person for all of my life. As I worked in different jobs, a fair percentage of my earnings went into the Health Care System. If I was not making much, I paid a little and, when I was making substantial income, I paid the limit, but it was always a reasonable amount which allowed me to (also) provide for my family (wife, two sons).

Why do I not regret that I paid a lot more than all my health costs combined? That's easy... I want my wife, my sons and their wives and children not to worry about hospital costs. I figure the taxes I paid towards Health Care well worth the investment.

Edit to add: I'm 68

reply to post by NavyDoc



A culture that is full of people that has no problem paying more in taxes to make sure that everyone, no matter their circumstances, gets the best healthcare available is a culture that cares more about his fellow man than a culture that sees such an act as a government imposition and a negative.

Obviously their is enough of a groundswell of compassion within America to at least attempt to make that happen.

The fact that the US Government completely screwed up pretty much every aspect of trying - and failing - to fulfill that desire is not those people's fault. The desire to help is valid.

But to come out and repudiate that cultural desire pretty much identifies a mentality that only cares about the welfare of others if it doesn't cost them anything or cause inconvenience.

MOMof3
How many Canandians go broke and lose their homes because of medical catastrophe's?

I am 63 and did twice. With two jobs and insurance. I swear on all I love my story is true. Our healthcare system before ACA and after is inhumane.

I should be getting a colonoscopy yearly at my age, but I haven't had insurance for seven years. Terrible way to die. I know that policies and money and political dogma is more important than that. I accept that about my country now.

Cross the border and go into a walk-in clinic, urgent care center or hospital. Complain about acute colon issues. At least you will know.

hounddoghowlie
reply to post by snypwsd

 

read the reports and look at the chart.
are all these considered elective surgery. i don't think so maybe in some but not all.
your either going to have your heart fixed or your gonna die.

Ophthalmology,
General Surgery
Neurosurgery
Orthopaedic Surgery
Cardiovascular Surgery
Urology
Internal Medicine
Radiation Oncology
Medical Oncology

and according to the report part of these numbers come from your own government, the Canadian Institute for Health.

Putting these numbers together with data on the number of procedures performed in Canada from the Canadian Institute for Health Information reveals that a conservatively estimated 41,838 Canadians received treatment outside the country in 2013.
Seeking relief outside Canada's borders

edit on 14-3-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

So I take it that you dont live in Canada eh?

One must remember that the people who go out of country for those procedures probably have pre-existing dissorders/ health issues that would complicate the surgeries and are deemed too much of a liability.

and we must remember aswell that 40+ thousand people does not even equal 1% of the population of canada. Thats like 1% of 1% of the population of Canada?

How many Americans go out of country for surgeries each year? Im sure its around the same percentage.

If you talk to any Canadian, they would not want to give up our one tier system, we are actually happy that there IS an alternative solution down in the states IF we decide that going broke for the rest of our lives is worth not waiting a month or two for surgeries.

The only thing that Americans can be sure of is that Canadians will not allow its government to change its health care system to that of which the Americans have. No matter what, we are covered, we can also have additional dental and medical coverage through work and buy coverage from insurance companies just like Americans. So its got all the good parts of the American system but with less crony capitalism.

Hell in British Columbia you dont have to pay the $50 a month and you will still be covered as long as you were at some point regestered in the system.

Our universal health care is truely a thing of beauty, if it was ever taking a way, you will see 40 million Canadians stand up and unite against our government.

edit on 56314p15617 by snypwsd because: (no reason given)

reply to post by snypwsd


sorry about the post above, something glitched and put everything in the qoute :s

The pride in Canada's health care system is not that *I* benefit from it, the pride is that EVERYONE benefits from it. People you don't know, people thousands of miles away, people you don't even like or will ever meet.

That is the point.

reply to post by Leonidas


You mean go to Canada?

MOMof3
reply to post by Leonidas

 

You mean go to Canada?

Yes. That is the thing about Americans and Canadians, we can walk amoung each other incognito. I live half the year in Hawaii and the other half in Canada. Only my friends in Hawaii know "I walk among you". lol.

OR if you have a trip planned to the UK, walk into an NHS facility and do the same thing.

reply to post by Leonidas


I have so much to learn about the world, thanks. The border is a beautiful 200mile drive from here.

JohnnyCanuck
Ya...could be they decided to pay for housing or feed their families instead. In a civilised society, that shouldn't have to be a choice.

It is the choice of the person. You know, the "freedom" thing and all.


And since when does free health care equate to a "civilized" society??

Gotta love it when words and terms are hijacked to further an agenda.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


So, again....someone else paying for your services.

Yeah, this whole idea of carrying the financial burden for others is not something we were founded on.

macman

JohnnyCanuck
Ya...could be they decided to pay for housing or feed their families instead. In a civilised society, that shouldn't have to be a choice.

It is the choice of the person. You know, the "freedom" thing and all.


And since when does free health care equate to a "civilized" society??

Gotta love it when words and terms are hijacked to further an agenda.

Caring about strangers isn't an "Agenda".

It is the right thing to do.

Leonidas
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

A culture that is full of people that has no problem paying more in taxes to make sure that everyone, no matter their circumstances, gets the best healthcare available is a culture that cares more about his fellow man than a culture that sees such an act as a government imposition and a negative.

Obviously their is enough of a groundswell of compassion within America to at least attempt to make that happen.

The fact that the US Government completely screwed up pretty much every aspect of trying - and failing - to fulfill that desire is not those people's fault. The desire to help is valid.

But to come out and repudiate that cultural desire pretty much identifies a mentality that only cares about the welfare of others if it doesn't cost them anything or cause inconvenience.

And yet to repudiate someone with a different take on that identifies the mentality of someone who "cares" for others enough to spend other people's money. It is wrong and ignorant to call someone selfish simply because they do not believe in coerced charity. It is easy to be generous with someone else's money, time, and labor and I would saw that your reply to me is quite indicative of that mindset.

"Compassion" is an excuse that the statists in America want to use to enable government takeover of healthcare. "Compassion" to them means "I want free stuff."

Leonidas

macman

JohnnyCanuck
Ya...could be they decided to pay for housing or feed their families instead. In a civilised society, that shouldn't have to be a choice.

It is the choice of the person. You know, the "freedom" thing and all.


And since when does free health care equate to a "civilized" society??

Gotta love it when words and terms are hijacked to further an agenda.

Caring about strangers isn't an "Agenda".

It is the right thing to do.

No, taking care of strangers yourself is the right thing to do. Making the government force strangers to take care of other strangers is an agenda. I can guarantee that, most likely, I have given much more of my time, my goods, my money and myself to help strangers in need that you ever have and you have the temerity to call me selfish because I disagree with a governmental monopoly on healthcare and government forced health issues.

NavyDoc

Leonidas
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

A culture that is full of people that has no problem paying more in taxes to make sure that everyone, no matter their circumstances, gets the best healthcare available is a culture that cares more about his fellow man than a culture that sees such an act as a government imposition and a negative.

Obviously their is enough of a groundswell of compassion within America to at least attempt to make that happen.

The fact that the US Government completely screwed up pretty much every aspect of trying - and failing - to fulfill that desire is not those people's fault. The desire to help is valid.

But to come out and repudiate that cultural desire pretty much identifies a mentality that only cares about the welfare of others if it doesn't cost them anything or cause inconvenience.

And yet to repudiate someone with a different take on that identifies the mentality of someone who "cares" for others enough to spend other people's money. It is wrong and ignorant to call someone selfish simply because they do not believe in coerced charity. It is easy to be generous with someone else's money, time, and labor and I would saw that your reply to me is quite indicative of that mindset.

"Compassion" is an excuse that the statists in America want to use to enable government takeover of healthcare. "Compassion" to them means "I want free stuff."

The fact that you would have to be "coerced" into charity is a very telling statement.

As I mentioned above, the pride in universal health-care isn't that *I* get it, the pride is in the fact that "EVERYBODY" does.

You share the cost of roads, schools, defense, infrastructure...is it that big a stretch to include healthcare?

JohnnyCanuck

NavyDoc

JohnnyCanuck

hounddoghowlie
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

yeah, yeah. heard it before.
that's the first thing people that are liberals or those on the left, yell when a report comes out against there stance,
see my post a couple above your above yours.

I don't need to. All I need to see is that you are lecturing me on Canadian health care based upon your politics, and I am ignoring it based upon my experience.

Fair enough. As long as you don't lecture us on US healthcare, then we're good.

It's an international forum, and this thread is about a Canadian doctor invited to testify before the senate, so I think I'm able to describe my experience in the Canadian system without fear of rebuke from you. What I take exception to is the poster I had responded to who was telling me about my Canadian experience based upon his right wing American politics...rectally sourced as it were.

It wasn't a rebuke. Although I find it a bit hypocritical to have Canadians telling us how much our healthcare sucks then demand that we can't make any discussion of the faults of theirs. I'd think that in an INFORMATIONAL FORUM we should be free to criticize your system as you ours.

He was not telling about your system based on right wing politics. The truth be told your system has some flaws, wether you care to admit it or not.

NavyDoc
No, taking care of strangers yourself is the right thing to do. Making the government force strangers to take care of other strangers is an agenda.

Taking care of strangers is hard to do, simple because one rarely meets them.

Governments are responsible for to all the citizens of the nation. The competition for that responsibility between corporations and politicians is based on greed alone.

imho

NavyDoc

Leonidas

macman

JohnnyCanuck
Ya...could be they decided to pay for housing or feed their families instead. In a civilised society, that shouldn't have to be a choice.

It is the choice of the person. You know, the "freedom" thing and all.


And since when does free health care equate to a "civilized" society??

Gotta love it when words and terms are hijacked to further an agenda.

Caring about strangers isn't an "Agenda".

It is the right thing to do.

No, taking care of strangers yourself is the right thing to do. Making the government force strangers to take care of other strangers is an agenda. I can guarantee that, most likely, I have given much more of my time, my goods, my money and myself to help strangers in need that you ever have and you have the temerity to call me selfish because I disagree with a governmental monopoly on healthcare and government forced health issues.

I *am* "The Government".

When "The Government" builds a bridge, a submarine or hospital that is "ME" paying for it and via democracy making the decision to do it.

Now Governments are a mess, they are inefficient, bloated and not as effective as they should be but if I am going to run my business and raise my family, I need somebody else to build the road between work and home and do the research into what is the best fighter-jet to meet my shared nation's needs.

If I am willing to share the cost of a water-treatment plant or a highway with my neighbours, why not share the cost of healthcare?