Canadian doctor makes anti-Obamacare senator look like a buffoon

we are already taxed to death and are seeing pretty much nothing from it.
our tax money goes where, bailing out scumbag companies (banks) and funding the increasing war machine? black projects?
oh wait I forgot they got the drug money to help fund those.
ever expanding beauracracy? an increasing government sector to make up for the shriveling private sector from bogus trade agreements and globalization? our politicians have sold us all down the river for years now along with the federal reserve?
Oh wait, didn't they say they were going to do all of this in all of their memoires, writings and white shoe boys meetings?

now we will be broke if those of us making less than 25-30 grand a year are forced to buy into this crap.
especially when I'm never sick, I haven't needed to use the insurance company's services ever.

I broke my wrist snowboarding like 10 years ago but that could've been handled out of pocket.

I have been to hospitals on both sides of the border and from my experience, for most people Canada's system is better. However I have found Canadian Hospitals despicable, they handed me my newborn son with one arm and when my son was admitted a week later for projectile vomiting, hospital staff gave me saline water to make formula with. When my wife( she is allergic to latex and penicillin) was giving birth they used a latex catheter and almost gave her penicillin after had i not been there. At the clinic a nurse stabbed through my one year old sons arm, into her skin and pulled the needle back through... despicable.
In the U.S. however when i drove myself to the E.R. for severe abdominal cramps, they gave me a tums drink and sent me home with a bill for $1,375.00. At this same hospital on a separate occasion i gave a urine sample filled with water and their test results showed blood in my urine.
Both systems suck, but the Canadian system breeds bad healthcare.

reply to post by ItsEvolutionBaby


Yes my Canadian nieghbors told us some horror stories of the healthcare system, thats why they moved
To the us

"Estimates"
"Probably"
"Perhaps"
"Maybe"

See any similarities in those FREQUENTLY used words in the quoted material? What it means is they have no idea how many Canadians come to America for medical consultations with specialists or procedures. The problem is that these Canadians are seeking treatment outside of Canada, not necessarily in America, but a majority of those that DO seek treatment in America are coming here for cosmetic surgery. So are we to believe that America has the best medical system because people from all over the world come here for b00b jobs, nose jobs and lyposuction? If America has such amazing medical treatment and specialists, why do wealthy Americans seek extensive and serious procedures in Switzerland, Germany, France and Sweden? A growing number of elite athletes, such as Peyton Manning, seek medical treatment in countries with single payer nationalized healthcare rather than in the supposedly superior medical system in America.


Just this week (3-12-2014) I saw a spinal specialist in Kansas City. He is the 5th specialist I have seen since March 2004. My primary care physician referred me to this specialist in October....2012, and it took from October 2012 to 1-15-2014 just for the insurance company to *approve* the initial consultation with this specialist, then from 1-16-2014 to 3-12-2014 for me to get in to see him. The specialist says I need surgery as soon as possible to fix my spine, but considering it took from October 2012 to January 2014 for the insurance company to approve the $500 consultation, how long do you suppose it'll take them to approve a $100,000+ surgery? Oh did I mention that I had to hire a very expensive attorney just to get the spine specialist consultation approved?


American Health Insurance Industry: screwing tax paying, premium paying citizens since the dawn of the health insurance industry! Hooray America!

hounddoghowlie
reply to post by Willtell

 

acording to the The Fraser Institute one of canada's leading think tanks. and ranked 22 in the world in 2013. i think the good doctor is blowing smoke.

ranking for The Fraser Institute. page 30 of The Global Go To Think Tank Index PDF. the standard for ranking in the world.
2013 Global Go To Think Tank Index Report

in this 2013Fraser Institute report that shows a estimated 41,838 canadians came to the U.S. for treatment of various kinds.

Putting these numbers together with data on the number of procedures performed in Canada from the Canadian Institute for Health Information reveals that a conservatively estimated 41,838 Canadians received treatment outside the country in 2013.
Interestingly, this year’s estimate is a slight decrease from the 2012 estimate of 42,173. At the same time, the wait time from specialist consultation to treatment in Canada increased from 9.3 weeks in 2012 to 9.6 weeks in 2013.
Seeking relief outside Canada's borders

did you see the key words " conservatively estimated" which means depending on whose definitions you use means,:"cautiously moderate or purposefully low: a conservative estimate".

i read the 2011 report and it stated the number given is likely under estimated and are probably higher due to non reporting/ non referrals,well here is the PDF

The number of patients receiving treatment outside Canada each year produced by this methodology is likely to be an underestimate. This is the result of a few factors. Most importantly, these numbers are based on specialist responses, which means that patients who leave Canada without consulting a specialist are not likely to be included in the count shown in table 1. The counts are also based on the number of procedures estimated to have been performed in Canada, which is less than the total number of patients consulted and less than the total number of Canadians who would have required treatment, including those who left Canada to seek it.
Le aving Canada for medical care 2011

i also think that the fact that the economy in canada is as bad everyone elses' is. that maybe the reason for the numbers coming out of canada dropping in 2012 and 2013.

so if we take the years of 2011( see report) 46,159 in 2012 42,173 , and in 2013 41,838 , we get 130,170 canadians came to the U.S. which according to the reports is more than likely under estimated. even you if you just count them as procedures, ie meaning same patient coming for more than one time, that's no small number, and remember that it considered to be a under estimate.

then you have this,

This edition of Waiting Your Turn indicates that waiting times for elective medical treatment have increased since last year. Specialist physicians surveyed across 12 specialties and 10 Canadian provinces report a total waiting time of 18.2 weeks between referral from a general practitioner and receipt of elective treatment.

Wait times between 2012 and 2013 increased in both the segment between referral by a general practitioner and consultation with a specialist (rising to 8.6 weeks from 8.5 weeks in 2012), and the segment between a consultation with a specialist and receipt of treatment (rising to 9.6 weeks from 9.3 weeks in 2012). While wait times have fallen overall, physicians themselves believe that Canadians wait approximately 3 weeks longer than what they consider is clinically "reasonable" for elective treatment after an appointment with a specialist.
Waiting your turn: Wait times for health care in Canada, 2013 Report

you know 3 months or 9.3 weeks, is a long time to wait to see a doctor.

so clearly the senator asked the wrong questions.

edit on 14-3-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-3-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

Pretty surprised at all the Americans happily burying their heads in the sand in this thread. You have Canadians in this very thread telling you we are happy with our healthcare system yet some of you are claiming that your uncles best friends wife knows somebody who knows a Canadian who moved to the U.S because they didn't like Canadian healthcare. Really? LOL! I also liked the comment from the guy who claims we aren't even a real country and the U.S should have invaded us. You are a prime example of why the rest of the world views Americans as uneducated obese war mongering simpletons, and you do your countrymen a disservice by misrepresenting them (I know not all of you are as ignorant as that guy, so don't think I'm painting you all with the same brush).

Sorry, but it's a simple fact that most of us are happy with our system and despite it's flaws (no system is perfect), we would prefer it to American health care any day of the weak.

DeadSeraph
I also liked the comment from the guy who claims we aren't even a real country

I liked the guy's comment too ...The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is a corporation.
YOU personally are not a country.
All this silly patriotism and fighting over opinions is unnecessary .

The insurance model(profit) does not work as the best model for providing healthCARE.

What truly baffles me is that even BEFORE Obamacare, the different levels of American Gov't ALREADY spent WAY more public money on health-care than Canada does on a per-capita basis . That does NOT include what the consumer pays over and above that.

And Obamacare just made it more expensive, more bureaucratic and less efficient.

It is ashame because if they really had the will to do it, they could obviously create the best health care system on the planet and save the government and people money.

If it wasn't so tragic and frustrating, it would be funny.

so the US is the doctor of the world now?

where are all the cuban docs?

ya think there are enough to go around?

The biggest problem with Obamacare for me is a combination of reality and lies. The American people were lied to. Typical democrat process of lie, cheat and steal to get our way because our way is best and you people are just idiots that need parenting. But my reality is that my insurance didn't change much, except that my employer has to eat a deductible increase of $1500 per employee. Lucky for me, my employer did this by banking the $1500 per employee and left our deductible at $500. I even kept my doctor.

My wife and kids are a different story. They lost their doctors and the insurance only went up slightly, but the deductable went from $500 each to $1000 each.

So...simple math on my case. As a family, if we use all of our benefits, it will cost us $1500 per year more personally. For my employer, it will cost him $1500 more for me. So Obamacare cost someone, personally $3000 more per year for my family.

Now...my employer employs about 20 people. It cost him (assuming full use of insurance) $30,000 more per year. Being a small business (compared to Walmart, etc.) this IS GOING TO TRANSLATE into lower or no raises and/or cutbacks on spending. So however you look at my employer, that $30,000 is going to come from somewhere. Maybe the local advertising companies he uses, the local paper, local contractors, local print shops, etc.

Finally...I am an adult with a family. I don't need some ass-hat telling me what to buy and what not to buy. I don't have a King...I have a country with a president. You lie to me...I will never trust you again. I will vote you and those who supported your lies out of office. I will speak against you as long as the law permits. I will tell you to your face...YOU SIR ARE A LIAR! YOUR WORDS ARE WORTHLESS AND YOU WILL NEVER BE TRUSTED BY ME OR MY FAMILY AGAIN! And neither will anyone that supported your lies.

A liar is the worst type of person. By their repeated acts, they become "noone". They may speak, but they are not heard. They act but their acts are rightfully considered fraudulent by default. The become guilty, until proven innocent. There should be a law about our "leaders" lying to the people that elected them. You know...like impeach them.

bahahahahahahahaha..... bahahahahahahaha...... bahahahahahahahaha....

yeah... I AM CANADIAN.. not american and i dont watn tot be even tho im 2 hrs away!!!


why do we pay these people hunderdz of thousands of dollars a year to talk about this dumm as stuff!!

reply to post by DeadSeraph


People you describe, like most of conservatives, often delude themselves with misinformation, such as this buffoon the OP OPED refers to.

They cover the truth with falsehood. They are artists at self-deception.

This Obama care, as deficient as it is, will most likely get better, and like other things such as SS, unemployment ins, child labor laws, and other humane policies, go forth and be a part of the US system, like other civilized systems across the globe.

The conservative fought everything from civil rights laws, to child labor laws, overtime, and safety rules on Jobs, and ALL human progress of this society because they are apart of the dark side, imo.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


The Fraiser Insitute is a "Libertarian" 'think tank' that makes no attempt at objectivity, it writes to promote an ideological stance. It's not an objective source.

In 1974, a group of academics and business executives, concerned about big government, founded the Fraser Institute.[2]
At the time, there were concerns about the institute's agenda given that one of those who helped set it up, Michael Walker, an economist from the University of Western Ontario, had received financial support from the forestry giant, MacMillan-Bloedel. To allay these charges, the Fraser Institute stated that its research priorities would not be determined by its funders but by its staff, that the staff of the institute would not engage in political activity, not its funders, and that its conclusions would not be shaped to favour any political or economic group.[2

There are also questions about how much the institute's work is shaped by its corporate funders. In 1999, the Fraser Institute sponsored two conferences on the tobacco industry: "Junk Science, Junk Policy? Managing Risk and Regulation" and "Should government butt out? The pros and cons of tobacco regulation."[2].

www.sourcewatch.org...

If you are going to use "Appeal to Authority" please make sure that authority meets minimun standards.

Four basic items to watch for according to www.nizkor.org...

1. The person has sufficient expertise in the subject matter in question.
   
   

[list=2]

The claim being made by the person is within her area(s) of expertise.

[/list=2]

[list=3]

There is an adequate degree of agreement among the other experts in the subject in question.

[/list=3]

[list=4]

The person in question is not significantly biased.

[/list=4]

[list=5]

The area of expertise is a legitimate area or discipline.

[/list=5]

[list=6]

The authority in question must be identified.

[/list=6]

Of particular note in this this instance are points #4 and #3.

The authority in question must be identified.

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE


A more succinct way of describing the problem with "Obamacare" is:

It is expensive and it doesn't work.

reply to post by Shaiker


The GOP does not need to distort or mislead. My families insurance was cancelled due to ObamaCare. Our cost was $409 dollars per month for my 5 year old daughter, wife and me. The new policy to replace the (HealthNet) policy cost $906 dollars per month with a higher deductible. Funny thing is my Daughter would was not included as she would be moved to Medical which I was pitched as “free”. No this whole thing is nonsense, and for the second time in my life I am helping to elect anyone who is against this horrible law. For the record, I am a small business owner and did manage to move my 2013 earnings to zero so I do not have to file taxes this year. Oh, and am I mistaken or did Obama win the lie of the Year from Politifact?

www.politifact.com...

reply to post by Lladdwr


Not saying your case is not real but yes the GOP does lie and mislead people about the affordable care act .
A hard-hitting anti-Obamacare ad makes
a claim that doesn’t add up

Michigan resident Julie Boonstra, in a new ad sponsored by Americans for Prosperity, attacking Rep. Gary Peters (D-Mich.), a candidate for the Senate
This emotional and gut-wrenching attack ad should be every Democrat’s worst nightmare, combining references to President Obama’s 4-Pinocchio promise (PolitiFact’s “Lie of the Year”) with a raw account of a woman who says she suffered because of the Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. Obamacare.
But do the facts match the emotions?
The Facts
First of all, many viewers might think Boonstra lost her doctor, as she mentions her “wonderful doctor” and then says her plan was canceled. But AFP confirms that she was able to find a plan, via Blue Cross Blue Shield, that had her doctor in its network.

www.washingtonpost.com... Klik^ for more details.

poet1b
Obama care is as bad as republicans could make it.

I bring this most telling remark back into the conversation.

hounddoghowlie
reply to post by Willtell

 

acording to the The Fraser Institute one of canada's leading think tanks. and ranked 22 in the world in 2013. i think the good doctor is blowing smoke.

ranking for The Fraser Institute. page 30 of The Global Go To Think Tank Index PDF. the standard for ranking in the world.
2013 Global Go To Think Tank Index Report

in this 2013Fraser Institute report that shows a estimated 41,838 canadians came to the U.S. for treatment of various kinds.

Putting these numbers together with data on the number of procedures performed in Canada from the Canadian Institute for Health Information reveals that a conservatively estimated 41,838 Canadians received treatment outside the country in 2013.
Interestingly, this year’s estimate is a slight decrease from the 2012 estimate of 42,173. At the same time, the wait time from specialist consultation to treatment in Canada increased from 9.3 weeks in 2012 to 9.6 weeks in 2013.
Seeking relief outside Canada's borders

did you see the key words " conservatively estimated" which means depending on whose definitions you use means,:"cautiously moderate or purposefully low: a conservative estimate".

i read the 2011 report and it stated the number given is likely under estimated and are probably higher due to non reporting/ non referrals,well here is the PDF

The number of patients receiving treatment outside Canada each year produced by this methodology is likely to be an underestimate. This is the result of a few factors. Most importantly, these numbers are based on specialist responses, which means that patients who leave Canada without consulting a specialist are not likely to be included in the count shown in table 1. The counts are also based on the number of procedures estimated to have been performed in Canada, which is less than the total number of patients consulted and less than the total number of Canadians who would have required treatment, including those who left Canada to seek it.
Le aving Canada for medical care 2011

i also think that the fact that the economy in canada is as bad everyone elses' is. that maybe the reason for the numbers coming out of canada dropping in 2012 and 2013.

so if we take the years of 2011( see report) 46,159 in 2012 42,173 , and in 2013 41,838 , we get 130,170 canadians came to the U.S. which according to the reports is more than likely under estimated. even you if you just count them as procedures, ie meaning same patient coming for more than one time, that's no small number, and remember that it considered to be a under estimate.

then you have this,

This edition of Waiting Your Turn indicates that waiting times for elective medical treatment have increased since last year. Specialist physicians surveyed across 12 specialties and 10 Canadian provinces report a total waiting time of 18.2 weeks between referral from a general practitioner and receipt of elective treatment.

Wait times between 2012 and 2013 increased in both the segment between referral by a general practitioner and consultation with a specialist (rising to 8.6 weeks from 8.5 weeks in 2012), and the segment between a consultation with a specialist and receipt of treatment (rising to 9.6 weeks from 9.3 weeks in 2012). While wait times have fallen overall, physicians themselves believe that Canadians wait approximately 3 weeks longer than what they consider is clinically "reasonable" for elective treatment after an appointment with a specialist.
Waiting your turn: Wait times for health care in Canada, 2013 Report

you know 3 months or 9.3 weeks, is a long time to wait to see a doctor.

so clearly the senator asked the wrong questions.

edit on 14-3-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-3-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

Also consider that of course a government spokesperson is going to blow smoke and be less than truthful when supporting her program. She would not have been allowed to speak to the committee if she wasn't fully on board.

AngryCymraeg

macman
reply to post by peck420

 

en.wikipedia.org...

Maybe they need to apply the full scientific method, instead of picking and choosing.
.
The services for medical treatment are there and can't be denied. The fact that people don't have "insurance" does not then mean they died.
They died because they took little to no action to treat any list of illness.

The uninsured are more likely to go without needed care than the insured.


Read More: ajph.aphapublications.org... earchHistoryKey=&

Again, the "uninsured" made the decision not to seek care.

Which is why, as a Brit, I love the NHS. The notion that anyone who cannot afford insurance but who finds himself sick is then unwilling to go to the doctor/hospital because they're afraid of the bill is a horrific one.

Perhaps, but what he's saying is that this is a baldfaced lie that people die in the US because they do not have insurance.

JohnnyCanuck

hounddoghowlie
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

yeah, yeah. heard it before.
that's the first thing people that are liberals or those on the left, yell when a report comes out against there stance,
see my post a couple above your above yours.

I don't need to. All I need to see is that you are lecturing me on Canadian health care based upon your politics, and I am ignoring it based upon my experience.

Fair enough. As long as you don't lecture us on US healthcare, then we're good.

Willtell
I am not a supporter of Obama care completely, I am a supporter of a single payer like Canada only based on the reality of a humanitarian based system saving lives and offering basic care to ALL.

It will not be perfect, I understand that, but you won’t like in the US, have human beings dying for lack of health care, and many getting sick because of it.

It’s that simple. A philosophy of a humane system for human beings, not a capitalistic, dog eat dog one like America.

It’s about doing the basics for the humanitarian, moral and ethical treatment of ALL human beings.

Then and only then do we have a chance to evolve to a system as perfect as we can devise.

But that is untrue. Americans are not dying for lack of healthcare nor getting sick because of it and Canadians are not a bastion of super health and long extended lives either.

I have no disagreement with being a humanitarian but you are wrong when you think people disagree with socialized medicine because they hate their fellow man. The disagree with governmental control over yet another aspect of your life, single entity that, by definition, eliminates choice. Why do people find it "ethical" to take form one person to give to another using force? How is that moral?

It boggles the mind to see people rail against corporate monopolies while at the same time support government monopolies. Do you think that government will be any more moral, ethical, or humanitarian? Where in god's green earth do you get that idea? Big government is bloated, bureaucratic, and inefficient at best and, as the death toll of people to their own governments in the 20th century show, at worst.