"Faith Alone" can not be "The Way"

Lets take a different approach to this debate...

Faith alone is a position held by many Christian denominations... these of course are based around Paul and his letters...

carm.org...

This can not be "the way" that Jesus describes in the gospels...

In his day the people that believed in Jesus did so by witnessing his the work he did in the places he went...

Even the thief on the cross "believed" in him because of his work... without which no one would have believed...

Everyone who came to Jesus asking to be healed did so because he was well known as "one" who could actually do such things... Not a man who just preached about God, but actually did the work of God.

There is only one example of ANY man believing in Jesus without hearing about his "work" before hand... Only John the Baptist believed who he was before any work, but that was because John was Elijah reincarnated and recognised the Lord from before his incarnation as John... By Jesus' own words...

11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Now some will argue That John said he wasn't Elijah... but I think Jesus would know, even if John didn't...

Others will say Elijah appeared in the transfiguration with Moses so he couldn't be two people, but Elijah lived many years before these people... they would not know his face... and im sure they weren't wearing name tags.. LOL

Back to the topic at hand...

Can anyone argue that the "Atheist" will not do good because he has no belief in God?

I've found that most Atheist's are just as willing to help others, give to charity and be peaceful as any believer would... In fact in many cases Atheists are much more kind to a wider variety of people, races, or cultures then "the religious"

So the question becomes, would God condemn a man who has been good all his life but has no belief in God?

And the answer my friends is NO...

Simply because once that man passes and finds himself still "alive" while their body is lifeless, they will believe in God... And theres no way around it.

God wrote the law of Love in the hearts of man kind... Not literally of course, but this means God dwells in our hearts... even without belief in Him.

43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Thus Faith Alone is NOT "The way"

For it is not Faith it is just words without action

The concept of "Faith alone" is the elitist version of Christianity...

One which offers no charity... No service to God...

And no love for your neighbour

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

The bible is a code...It would have been destroyed if it would have been said in a clear way.


IAM the way.

IAM is the way. (not jesus-> IAM).


IAM THE WAY.

Iam THE REALITY.

IAM THE WAY. There is no seperation between me and reaity.

Focus only on the IAM as long as you can and you will understand!

DO IT.

Dont seperate yourself from yourself. You are not an object.

You are the way..And the way never ends..

reply to post by kauskau


IF one is to Focus on I AM...

When does the Focus on others come into play?

I only want to point out one small thing . John sent someone to Jesus when John was in prison asking if He was the one or if there was someone else . I think you have to factor in that all of Jesus followers were looking for the ruling King Messiah .They were all confused and didn't understand at first the two aspects as being two different time frames . IMO

reply to post by Akragon


The others are IAM as that which perceives.

The others are also looking from the point of IAM.

IAM is what unifies ..You never see IAM as something specific. You see IAM as all there is and as it changes form all the time you don´t see it..Paradox is your point of power...
The second coming is not "jesus" ...its us. We are christ consciousness .

We are the reality which we previosly though we existed in.

reply to post by Akragon

I've found that most Atheist's are just as willing to help others, give to charity and be peaceful as any believer would... In fact in many cases Atheists are much more kind to a wider variety of people, races, or cultures then "the religious"

So the question becomes, would God condemn a man who has been good all his life but has no belief in God?

And the answer my friends is NO...

That is indeed the answer.

I've met and known many atheists/agnostics. Very good people. Struggling, like all of us, to understand that which is beyond our understanding. (We keep trying, though - generation after generation....)

The answer to the question "Would God condemn a man who has been good?" is indeed, again: no.

reply to post by kauskau


I wonder...

Where do you think the term "Christ consciousness" comes from?

This isn't some new age idea... it comes from "the way" Jesus taught...

Christ consciousness comes from the heart, this is why when one reads the gospels, his words "ring true" in ones heart

reply to post by the2ofusr1

I think you have to factor in that all of Jesus followers were looking for the ruling King Messiah

I would think most were looking for the messiah that was foretold in Jewish scripture...

Jesus did not fulfil the prophecies, which is why they still reject him to this day... according to those prophecies he is Not the jewish messiah

They found something else which is stronger then any foretold prophecies...

First hand witness to his WORK...

reply to post by Akragon


of course....Jesus was a messenger .. He was a mirror. but he never wanted to become a cult . He wanted to empower us.

The church is the only institution which seperates jesus from what you are..Because that way THEY are the inbetween and can transform that focous you give them into power and money.
Thats why words like "blasphemy", "satan" etc.. were invented.

Akragon
reply to post by kauskau

 

I wonder...

Where do you think the term "Christ consciousness" comes from?

This isn't some new age idea... it comes from "the way" Jesus taught...

Christ consciousness comes from the heart, this is why when one reads the gospels, his words "ring true" in ones heart

My guess, the name of an alchemist in the future/past.
An idea of change/evolution, sup lol

reply to post by Akragon


When He started his ministry he read from the book of Isaiah and stopped part way through the verse and closed the book and said this proficiency is fulfilled this day . You may want to read the rest of the passage he read . You are correct that a lot of the Jews rejected Him and that was also a fulfillment of prophecy as well . And there is a coming day when the whole nation of Israel will acknowledge Him but at this time there eyes are blind until the fullness of the gentiles . Then He will turn back to them .

the2ofusr1
reply to post by Akragon

 

When He started his ministry he read from the book of Isaiah and stopped part way through the verse and closed the book and said this proficiency is fulfilled this day . You may want to read the rest of the passage he read . You are correct that a lot of the Jews rejected Him and that was also a fulfillment of prophecy as well . And there is a coming day when the whole nation of Israel will acknowledge Him but at this time there eyes are blind until the fullness of the gentiles . Then He will turn back to them .

And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Isaiah 61

Im talking about this....

Isaiah 2
The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Jesus did not fulfil the prophecy of bringing peace to earth...

And theres quite a few other qualifications which do not make him the Jewish messiah... That is why they reject him...

As I've said, they relied on his WORK... and the words he spoke to identify him

The bible is a code...It would have been destroyed if it would have been said in a clear way.

Matthew 18:20. "For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them."

No. Faith alone is not enough.

reply to post by Akragon

to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

I just yesterday added 2 bumper stickers to my car, after paying to wash it:

"my job is to comfort the disturbed
and disturb the comfortable" (in capital block letters)

"I'm for the separation of
Church & Hate"

For what it's worth. Tinted glass, ya know....my car is my armour/costume.
:/
Sorry. being goofy.

reply to post by Akragon

Here is the verse that Jesus quoted from . Tell me if there is something more to it then what Jesus said ."The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

It's this part "and the day of vengeance of our God;" He never did proclaim that part . Not a big deal if your not paying attention . That is all I wanted to bring .Oh and about John not being sure. I may as well through Thomas in there and ask what Jesus said to him about believing .I really dont have to show you where it is .You have a good working knowledge in the scriptures and how to find stuff peace

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


Being goofy is always welcome in my threads as long as its not derailing the topic...

One of my new Favorite saying is as follows:

IF you're using the bible to hurt people... You're not using it right

Star and flagged! Awesome inspiring insight.
I really believe you have something there. My husband is extremely atheistic in his views. His whole world since birth was based on pure science. We do have interesting debates though since I am agnostic in my beliefs, but I have extreme confidence in that his mind may say there is no God, but his heart shows that worship is not needed to have a Christ consciousness. He is extremely opinionated, but his works and charity are beyond measure. (Even I am amazed at his initiative to assist others, since if one heard his opinions, you would never think he would help anyone!) Most would think he is an egotistical opinionated *ss, but that is because he does not feel the need to brag about his good works. He just feels good helping and it makes him feel like a rich king, even if it is his last dollar.

Many of our Christian friends, who try to save our souls, tend to have more talk and no heart. They can talk the talk, but rarely walk the walk. For example: One recently, bragged how much they saved by declaring their charity on their taxes! We told our tax consultant it wouldn't be charity if we declared it. Our christian friend naturally was annoyed with us when we asked how he thought it truly was his own charity, if he was just using others tax money to give and get his money back at the end of the year? No one has ever explained that to us, it just don't make sense.

reply to post by Akragon

... these of course are based around Paul and his letters...

If by "Paul" (different from his letters) you mean Paul according to Acts, then what you are referring to is a fictional character in what amounts to historical fiction, and not the actual Paul.

Anyway, where does Paul ever say, "faith alone"?