"Faith Alone" can not be "The Way"

reply to post by FlyersFan


I agree with you and Akragon - in fact it's hard for me to see how people don't see it. The scriptures are clear on the matter, in my view, and I'm certainly no Bible scholar. It seems that those who reject reincarnation as scripturally founded have to work hard at it when the verses are presented.

I won't repeat them here; they've been listed regularly.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs




But what do you think reincarnation is?

Do you think it is a linear progression?


I think: reincarnation is just cross connecting.

The paradox is: there is always only now: So that means the past and the future are constructed from this now. And there is an infinite number of nows which are only dependent on your focus (free will) .
As there can be many television channels being available at once now.. I think all reincarnations happen at the same time. Its just the higher mind that creates a focus that makes it seem as there is linearity..


"In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?"

As god is infinity.We are infinity too. That is what choice is: the total choice of infinity. But we are just awakening to that. So right now we really don´t have all the "tools" to connect with infinity as we "want to"...And as we are a reflection (image) we can only understand god "(ourself) with the help of other reflections. So free will is only available by reflecting free will. Thats the total free will. We are even free to experience "slavery".....

"So God created human beings in his own image"

"Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit."

reply to post by kauskau


Well, I'd love to discuss it with you, but it's totally off-topic.

Good question, though.
Do I think it's linear? No, not really. I think of at metamorphosis.

As for the OP/topic, I believe "faith alone" is a weak and cowardly premise.

reply to post by kauskau

"In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?"

I think this ties in with what he said to the Samaritan at Jacob's well, that there is coming a time "when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
(2011 NIV)

The New American Standard Bible translates it as: "In My Father's house are many dwelling places . . ."

I think it just means what replaces the temple on Mount Zion in Jerusalem, that he earlier in the same book predicted.
Saying: ". . . you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem."

The temple was thought of as the dwelling place of YHWH.
Jesus was talking about where God would really be dwelling.
So rather than many dwelling places for us, it is many dwelling places for God.

Looking at the Greek of John 14:2, it uses the exact same word for "I would have told to you . . ." as it does for ". . . prepare a place for you".
It normally means the first thing, "to you".
So rather than preparing a particular room for you specifically, as if he was a hotel concierge, he is doing something that will bring something to them.

reply to post by jmdewey60


"to them" ...what do you mean with "them"...


of course we are a tool for god to reflect itself as infinity..But as we are made in the image of god it works in both directions....

we bring something to god and god brings something to us....God is not an object..God is infinity..So its like a "fractal"..infinity mirrored in every fraction....


“I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.

Split a piece of wood; I am there.

Lift up the stone, and you will find me there.”"

reply to post by kauskau

"to them" ...what do you mean with "them"...

He was at the time speaking directly to his disciples, but you can by extension apply it to the entire church, meaning from the time of its commission, to now, and possibly including yourself.

of course we are a tool for god to reflect itself as infinity..But as we are made in the image of god it works in both directions....

I would take "in the image of god" figuratively, as it can't possibly be understood literally.
People are god-like in at least one aspect, and God is people-like in some way, us all coming from the same "place".

we bring something to god and god brings something to us....God is not an object..God is infinity..So its like a "fractal"..infinity mirrored in every fraction....

I think what you are describing is the universe, a thing, and not God.

“I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.

I don't think there is a literal interpretation for that.
People on their own in their natural state, are vulnerable to the ways of the world, that operates in a life and death cycle.
There is a knowledge that is given to us, by God, of the way to break free from that.
That's what it is saying, in metaphorical terms.

Split a piece of wood; I am there.

Lift up the stone, and you will find me there.”"

I think that is just a way of saying that the truth of life that comes from God is not something that can somehow just fade away from being old.

reply to post by Jesuslives4u

Jesuslives4u

kauskau
If you read your bible both OT ans NT ........see what is it say in the last book of the NT. and Jesus said, I am, I am.

So who is I am?

Not you.

Who is "I AM"? - I AM, but also YOU ARE and from your perspective that would also be I AM.

God's Holy Spirit dwells within us (1 Corinthians 6:19) but some of us do not remember which is why Paul raised the question saying "Do you not know that your bodies are temples of The Holy Spirit?". So, how do we honor God with our bodies (1 Corinthians 6:20) so that we can show our faith towards Spirit over body? Whomever lives in Love lives in God and God within him (1 John 4:16).

reply to post by jmdewey60


"I think what you are describing is the universe, a thing, and not God."

i still find it strange that people dont understand that god and the universe are one....If god would be something different than the universe..he would not be infinite...

reply to post by kauskau

....If god would be something different than the universe..he would not be infinite...

That would, for one thing, make God evil, since the universe is naturally not especially friendly towards long term life of any sentient beings living in it.
The universe is a material thing, while God is spiritual, which transcends that, having consciousness outside of the physical, while having the ability to manipulate physical things outside of itself without having to be part of it.

The Christian hope is that there is a God who can take our eternal spirits after the end of our current natural lives, and to give them existence in the material world, with bodies, but of a higher nature, not bound to the natural cycle of life and death.
Some people might not be interested in such a thing, and could content themselves in the thought of their various molecular units being scattered to the wind as long as they all remain in the universe.
To me, that makes life really meaningless.
I see the soul as going on, beyond the lifespan of the mortal body, but its fate can be good or bad or just a big blank concerning what it is conscious of.
What we do now will determine that future outcome.
The only way a human person can be happy is in a physical body, interacting with the material universe, and not as a disembodied spirit locked away in some sort of universal abyss in a state of eternal limbo.
God is the Sheppard of souls, who has an interest beyond what the universe cares about or is able to provision for.
God cares about the fate of our souls or eternal spirits and can do something about it that the material universe can't.

reply to post by kauskau

kauskau
If god would be something different than the universe..he would not be infinite...

How do you know that the universe is infinite? Also there are many definitions of God , and most see God as a spirit not something 'infinite' otherwise most wouldn't believe in Hell if his presence spreads out through all things into infinity.

reply to post by Akragon


What is faith?

Is faith believing in an idea? Is faith knowing? Is faith a system? Is faith a worldview?

People have faith in all kinds of things, but does that mean their faith has basis in anything substantive? People have faith in their own human knowledge, their own morality, their own abilities and their own changing worldviews. But having faith in their own doesn't mean they have knowledge of anything else outside of their own worldview and morality. So they have knowledge of their own mind, but their minds are changed all the time.

So what is faith?

reply to post by WarminIndy


Haven't seen you in a while...

Good question... I'll think on it and give you a reply when im home

kauskau
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

"I think what you are describing is the universe, a thing, and not God."

i still find it strange that people dont understand that god and the universe are one....If god would be something different than the universe..he would not be infinite...

As God is defined as a spirit, and the universe is natural, then God in that definition can't be part of the natural universe. When people did believe that gods were natural, hence the sun, and many gods were made from wood and stone and given names after natural heavenly bodies, then those gods are subject to human effort.

But no heavenly body is subject to human effort either, except for the exploitation of natural resources. But that is also a natural process. So god being the universe, one would would have to assume earth is also god because earth hangs in the universe. While we might believe and say Mother Nature, what we are referring to is natural occurrences it does not mean people worship the earth as a god.

Therefore, as earth hangs in the universe and is part of it, is the earth god?

reply to post by Akragon

So the question becomes, would God condemn a man who has been good all his life but has no belief in God?

You are correct in your assessment. Father does not send a man off because he does not believe. Or, is looking for a reason to believe. As you have stated, once he sheds the vessel, he WILL see ALL. Also, if the spirit inside of him believes, but yet the human side does not. He can still be apart of the whole.

The kicker.

If Father sends one down here to do bad (by mans eyes), is he condemned, because he is doing a task for a reason that is not clear to man?

reply to post by jhill76

If Father sends one down here to do bad (by mans eyes), is he condemned, because he is doing a task for a reason that is not clear to man?

Yes.
Luke 17:1
Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come.
(2011 NIV)

reply to post by WarminIndy

So god being the universe, one would would have to assume earth is also god because earth hangs in the universe. While we might believe and say Mother Nature, what we are referring to is natural occurrences it does not mean people worship the earth as a god.

Therefore, as earth hangs in the universe and is part of it, is the earth god?

Recently someone said to me that God is not even part of the universe. I had a hard time with that idea.

I think Mother Earth indeed has a divinity about her.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

So god being the universe, one would would have to assume earth is also god because earth hangs in the universe. While we might believe and say Mother Nature, what we are referring to is natural occurrences it does not mean people worship the earth as a god.

Therefore, as earth hangs in the universe and is part of it, is the earth god?

Recently someone said to me that God is not even part of the universe. I had a hard time with that idea.

I think Mother Earth indeed has a divinity about her.

God is part of the universe as His Word created the universe. But God Himself is transcendent of nature. Now if you believe Mother Nature has divinity, then Mother Nature is a spiritual phenomenon. Where does the divinity of Mother Nature come from? The natural?

And if Mother Nature's divinity resides on earth, then earth would have to be divine as well, because Mother Nature exists on earth. Mother Nature influences and is influenced by the earth's natural processes. We know shifting poles influence nature. Therefore, if Mother Nature is divine, then shifting poles that have influence on her, must also be divine, and since magnetic poles are a very real, tangible and evident natural thing, then the poles are divine as well.

Earthquakes, as you attribute to Mother Nature, also influence Mother Nature as do erupting volcanoes. And earth is subject to the outside influence of the moon and sun. But yet it is also subject to near misses and hits by asteroids and meteorites. If earth and Mother Nature are divine, then they are mutually divine in that they affect and influence each other.

Is earth divine? What gives it divine properties? How does it exhibit divine properties? And how then does Mother Nature line up to that same list? What makes her divine? What are her properties of divinity and how does she exhibit it?

reply to post by BuzzyWigs

Recently someone said to me that God is not even part of the universe.

"Universe" by definition would be everything, including God or the gods.
God can be in the universe but not necessarily part of its material nature.
What I was objecting to earlier is the idea that God is the universe.
I have recently sided against the idea that God is somehow in every part of the universe.
I think that God sort of transcends space to a certain extent to where He isn't necessarily in any particular given space at a given time.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Is earth divine? What gives it divine properties? How does it exhibit divine properties?

There is a divine influence on the earth, as described in Genesis 1.
Without that divine whatever, the earth would devolve back to its original state, which would of course not support human life.

jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Is earth divine? What gives it divine properties? How does it exhibit divine properties?

There is a divine influence on the earth, as described in Genesis 1.
Without that divine whatever, the earth would devolve back to its original state, which would of course not support human life.

Yes, divine influence.

Divine influence is not that the object on which the influence is exerted is divine itself.