Satan: Humanity's Hero

reply to post by QueenofSpades


Well in the mythological sense I can see your correlation.

Satan = Prometheus

From that angle your thesis can be supported, mankind has viewed Prometheus as a hero of men, bringing them knowledge of the gods; and Prometheus' story came from the story of Satan's "fall", but when you get into the scriptural version the thesis will fall apart.

Almighty God, the Creator of the physical and spiritual realms and all life found within those realms (Lucifer then Satan included); is the Creator of good and evil.

How did God create evil?

By defining what was good through His word (logos).

Thinking in agreement with God that "my way" (thoughts which oppose God's defined "right/good way") is selfish/evil and focuses on my needs and what seems right to me in vanity. To think in any way that opposes God's definition of the "right/good way" creates evil in existence.

We were created natural, and as such we were created subjects to vanity (my way of thinking is right, other people's way of thinking is wrong), we were created with physical needs which require selfish thinking to acquire the items needed to survive physically (food, water, entertainment, shelter etc.).

Our carnal, natural mind is hostile to God's definition of good (God is right) and evil (I am right), it was designed by God to oppose Him naturally. We were created to repent (change how you think by choice) from carnal thinking (my way is right) to spiritual thinking (God's way is right), to transform our minds by the renewing of the spirit to think in agreement and unity with the mind of God (Holy Spirit).

We know Lucifer the archangel rebelled against God and became known as "adversary" (Satan). What did he rebel against?

God's definition of right and wrong (good and evil) and God's purpose for the creation of physical mankind (to become Elohim).

Lucifer lifted his own way of thinking (my way is right, God's way is wrong) above that of God's; the created (Satan) claiming to be more knowledgeable/righteous then the Creator (God). He wanted to usurp the authority of Almighty God (law giver, definer of right and wrong) and place his way of thinking (survival of the fittest, the powerful should rule over the weak etc.) as lawful/right.

Knowing God would create mankind as a selfish carnal opposing mind by nature and for a great purpose; it was not hard for Satan to convince Adam and Eve to agree with his way of thinking (I am right; God is wrong). Satan convinced Adam and Eve that they can be the lawgivers/rulers, they can determine for themselves what is right and wrong (good and evil); they can possess in themselves the knowledge of good and evil determination. Just as mankind was created to do, Adam and Eve sinned (transgressed the law of God) ate of the food (spiritual food) offered by Satan and decided that God is no longer the lawgiver over mankind; man is (as influenced by Satan, the god of this age).

God allowed mankind the last 6000 years (this age) to determine for themselves what is right and wrong (good and evil); that is the purpose of the present age, where all mankind lives according to "what seems right to me" in vanity; with 7 billion different definitions of good and evil resulting in chaos (Satan's way of thinking).

Soon this age will end, and a 1000 year age will begin. Where mankind does not live "according to what seems right to them" in vanity (Satan will be put away and no longer able to influence the thoughts of man); all will be ruled by the Kingdom of God and learn how to think like God (God's way), repenting of 7 billion "my ways" resulting in unity and peace in all minds coming into agreement with God's one true definition of good and evil (laws).

Satan can be viewed as a hero to mankind in this age because of our nature, if you agree presently with his knowledge brought to mankind in the garden (Prometheus).

His knowledge was; you do not have to agree with God's definition of right and wrong (laws), you can create your own definition of right and wrong (laws) according to your will (vanity). This is true, however he mixed in a lie following this truth; he said you will not surely die if you agree with my knowledge (create your own laws) and God's word says the punishment for sin (breaking of God's laws of right and wrong thinking) is death.

Satan's desire is for mankind to agree with his way of thinking (view him as a hero) and die as a result in chaos, so they cannot become greater then he is (Elohim) according to the plan of God for the creation of His family (Elohim). There is a plan and Satan looses. All truth will be known in God's perfect timing; this is not the age of salvation, that occurs primarily in the age to follow.

God Bless,

reply to post by ElohimJD


So in order to win, we must first lose. We must lose our lives, our bodies, our possessions, our dreams and hopes, and our potential. Then we will be given it all back for the express and eternal purpose of kissing God's ass forevermore. I would rather live once as a freethinking mortal than spend forever as a regretful immortal feeling like I'm dying on the inside.

reply to post by Cuervo


Good reply. Few misconceptions. Never really had the Bible explained to me. I was never raised Christian and
my childhood saw church maybe five or six times. Never with my parents and never belonged to one.
I was ten when I decided on my world view (to follow Christ). All on my own, because it absolutely
made the most sense to me. To this day I've not heard anything from opposing views that could
cause me to reconsider. So on my skin my perspective going in, could not have been more fresh.
And this is not the first record on ATS of me saying this.

I don't portray him that way; the old testament does. The reason you don't agree is because you are biased (I don't mean that derogatorily as I'm biased in what I believe, too - we all are). Most people understand it more like you do because that is how it is explained to us in western culture. What I have said on the subject comes from complete objectivity using a fresh perspective reading the old testament.

From here I will just agree to disagree because I did say, I don't want to convince you anyway.
Not that I could either.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

So in order to win, we must first lose. We must lose our lives, our bodies, our possessions, our dreams and hopes, and our potential. Then we will be given it all back for the express and eternal purpose of kissing God's ass forevermore. I would rather live once as a freethinking mortal than spend forever as a regretful immortal feeling like I'm dying on the inside.

In order to have peace/agreement among all lifeforms (physical and spiritual) created by the Creator with the power of free moral agency (free will); the individual minds of all must choose to agree with the perfect mind of God (Holy Spirit) whose way of thinking is peace and love. If an individual mind chooses to disagree with this way of thinking, they will create tension/argument/division/chaos.

In the end, after all things are made known unto all mankind, if you still choose to die (never to have life again) in order to maintain your own person morality, when it opposes the way of thinking which leads to peace taught by God; you will have that choice. All evil (selfish thinking in opposition to God) will be destroyed forever at the end of the 7100 year plan for the salvation of mankind; leaving only perfect unity of thought among Elohim ruling all things according to the perfect will of God.

Your eternal purpose is not to "kiss God's ass" but to rule over all that exists in all realms as children (heirs) of God in the family of God (Elohim) as brothers and sisters with Jesus Christ; the first to enter into Elohim by choosing to always agree with the mind of God in all thoughts forever. Because Jesus Christ lived a perfect life (without sin) he thusly qualifying for his position as King of Kings and Lord of Lords eternally, as well as the Passover Sacrifice from God for mankind to be forgiven of sin (thinking in opposition to God). Only Christ (current member of Elohim) is fit to administer God's laws over the Earth, however all mankind was created for the sole purpose of becoming Elohim over time.

You are so convinced your "free thinking ways" are "right" and God's way of thinking is "wrong" (full of regret) you would rather die, never to have life again then submit to the purpose of your Creation by your Creator. This is the type of pride mankind will need to address in the future ages to come. But God's perfect plan will prove to your mind the vanity of this post over time; however expected in this present age your feelings are (most will agree with you presently).

Death in this age is not the end of the potential for salvation; it is halftime. The first half (this age) of the game you live once as a free thinking mortal "live your life your way" as you have implied was your deep desire at this time; without judgement. The second half (Great White Thrown Judgement age) will serve as the complete and total contrast to your first life, as you spend it learning God's way of thinking and seeing the immediate results of that way in the world around you; only then can your mind make an informed decision as to whether you desire to continue living in opposition to God's way (my way) or in agreement with them (God's way); knowing both ways first hand for a real life comparison.

Your mind will remember all it experienced in this present age/life, your personal morality (personal definition of good and evil) and how 7 billion opposing definitions led to pain, suffering, war, death, disease, murder, adultery and chaos among men. God will then make all things known unto your mind at the beginning of your second physical life; why you were created in opposition to the mind of God; why you exist, what you were meant to become, and the perfection of how God will have created Elohim over 7100 years.

You might then willingly and joyfully cry out in thankfulness and praise to the Eternal Almighty God for His ideal manner in molding and fashioning billions of Elohim into being unique, creative and different personalities yet always thinking according to the way of God (laws which require self sacrifice) and never their way (personal morality based on what makes my way of thinking right, in opposition to God's).

All in unity of definition of right and wrong = peace

7 billion individual definitions of right and wrong = chaos

Is your law giver your Creator, or your Pride.

God Bless,

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

No, your pastor taught you that. Story goes that the Serpent, who was Lilith, not Satan btw-- introduced Man to science. She proved the fruit wasn't deadly and it DID make Man divine, as science is the language and law of God. She opened their eyes to see into the future, where among other things most people were mostly clad and Man understood they were naked and the fashion industry was first established. Fig is the new little black

And what book did you pull that out of?

Basically Genesis and the Zohar, it's quite straight forward if you read the texts as is without all the dogma and doctrines that turns the episode by the Tree of Knowledge into something having to do with sin. No rabbi would teach that the essence of these verses is that Adam and Eve sinned, they simply became students and were made ready to meet the world out there. Have you ever wondered why God fashioned Man with leather cloathing upon leaving through Eden's gates if he was so angry at them?

randyvs
reply to post by Cuervo

 

Good reply. Few misconceptions. Never really had the Bible explained to me. I was never raised Christian and
my childhood saw church maybe five or six times. Never with my parents and never belonged to one.
I was ten when I decided on my world view (to follow Christ). All on my own, because it absolutely
made the most sense to me. To this day I've not heard anything from opposing views that could
cause me to reconsider. So on my skin my perspective going in, could not have been more fresh.

edit on Ram31314v56201400000010 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

This is where I usually get misunderstood. When I say that the OT god isn't wholly good, I don't mean that as an insult or that Christians should abandon their religion. My only beef is when the obviously brutal acts are overlooked as "we don't have the wisdom to understand genocide or stoning children" instead of just forgiving him. The whole religion is based on him forgiving you for your sins so it makes a beautiful kind of sense for you to acknowledge his evil acts and forgive him for it in kind.

But, sincerely, I NEVER want to dissuade anybody from following a path that spiritually nurtures them in a positive way. If you knew how many times I've referred my clients to their pastors instead of taking their money for craft work, you'd understand how genuine I am in saying that.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


I have never heard of this version before.

Cuervo

Utnapisjtim

FriedBabelBroccoli
doesn't the Bible say that the adversary lied to Adam and Eve claiming that they would not die, but would be "like" God.

No, your pastor taught you that. Story goes that the Serpent, who was Lilith, not Satan btw-- introduced Man to science. She proved the fruit wasn't deadly and it DID make Man divine, as science is the language and law of God. She opened their eyes to see into the future, where among other things most people were mostly clad and Man understood they were naked and the fasion industry was first established. Fig is the new little black

But... if they saw a future with people clothed in it, wouldn't that mean that the clothed people had an Adam/Eve origin that also decided to wear fig leaves for some reason? Hah!

Suppose so

reply to post by Cuervo


To your credit, your responses aren't anything I thought they would be.

FriedBabelBroccoli
You are not interpreting those Biblical texts, but rather some form of Theosophy it seems.

Guess you could say that. I call it reading.

The Bible texts say Eve was deceived and was divine before she ate of the fruit.

Are you sure of that? Read it again. In Hebrew. Exactly where does it say that Man was deceived?

But then again if that is not the case, then why are people dying left and right?

Most of those people dying don't even realise or notice they died. They live on in another dimentional complex. Merely ridding off old skin as they progress through what I call the tetities, one step closer to God. Life IS eternal you know. Didn't you get that while sifting through those pages?

What do you think of Anu being the closest Sumerian equivalent of the Biblical God as opposed to the prince of the air(aka Lucifer, Enlil) and the prince of the Earth (aka Satan, Enki)?

Let's not mix the veggies here.

The stories say that Satan challenged God out of jealousy. What do other stories say?

For those who are curious as to where enslavement is in the bible:

"God saw that there was no man to till the soil".

This statement is in line with the Anunnaki/ Sumerian Texts that state that ET's came to earth on a Gold-Mining expedition, and decided to create a "lulu"/ hybrid beast.

Also the word "worship" means to work for.

Plus, slavery is in the bible from Genesis to Revelations.

Cuervo

randyvs
reply to post by Cuervo

 

I get why Christians believe what they do but they won't ever be able to convince me that he was the good guy in the OT.

And it sure is tuff to see why too.

'm confused. So a god creates two people, those people disobey him... he casts them away and then says "you will suffer without me, you'll see" but then when humanity starts building societies and what-not, he commands them to kill each other and gives them lists of punishments to dole out on one another and then says "See? I told you that this would suck!".

I don't want to convince you of anything. But it's obvious why you portray the intelligence of God,
in a way that makes him out to be a buffoon. When you can look at creation and see the ignorance
in your deduction.

edit on Ram31314v242014u00 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

I don't portray him that way; the old testament does. The reason you don't agree is because you are biased (I don't mean that derogatorily as I'm biased in what I believe, too - we all are). Most people understand it more like you do because that is how it is explained to us in western culture. What I have said on the subject comes from complete objectivity using a fresh perspective reading the old testament.

Seriously, if you erase everything you know on the subject, including who you are supposed to root for, you may see things in a different light. I mean, the first few verses in Genesis, alone, will blow your mind if you block out all of your current understanding of it and read it as a child would.

And none of what I say on the subject is meant to dissuade a person from Christianity. Deities of religions all over the world are multi-layered and have more than one side to them. Christians are one of the very few groups who try to claim that their god is wholly "good" when, to outsiders looking in, he clearly is not. And that's ok. Deities are quirky. If we were to have been made in their image, it only makes sense they are not perfect (therefore making them perfect in an ironic twist).

BRAVO for this POST!!

You are absolutely right! If Christians re-read the bible without Christian influence, they would see it in a different light.

They have been taught all their lives that God is Good, the Devil is Bad.

so basically this is one of those ''dude, what if the devil is the good guy'' type of threads thats been done over and over on ATS. Going by the backstory, Satan hated humans for the sole reason that humans are made from ''clay''. He thought he was superior to humans for being made of ''fire''. I wouldn't consider as a ''friend'' somebody who thinks he is better than me because of his skin or eye color. So those who hail Satan as a ''hero'' don't realise that their ''hero'' looks down upon them simply for being human.

reply to post by QueenofSpades


No that is wrong, you cannot understand YAHUWAH because you do not know him who created you.

reply to post by QueenofSpades



I suggest make it fictional because satan as an entity or person does not exist."The fact about satan is it means an adversary.It is NOT a proper name of a person or enity.It is an adjective used as a metaphor.The same goes for lucifer(which word is only ONE time in all of the scripture) .Devil and demon come from the Greek diabolo which means to throw through a channel.These words have been twisted then intertwined to create beings(devils ,demons) and Satan/Lucifer was crowned king.

The book of Job is used as a proof text however it is an allegory.Job is a fictional character. He has no scriptural genealogy. Yahoshuas and the apostles mention of satan is equally metaphoric.There was not an "entity" that was trying to seduce Yahoshua while he fasted in the desert.If it was then it was Simon Peter because he called Simon Peter satan(an adversary).

Satan is not an entity nor the "God of this world".There is not a "war" between satan and the creator God for the "hearts and souls" of humans.The only war that is going on is between mans ears...in their religious carnal mind "thrown through" the Belief System of THEIR religion.That is the adversary..and IT has conquered many men.

"Satan" is most certainly not "humanities hero" . . . the entire bickering within the biblical texts between "Satan" and "God" sounds as if two physically limited beings having a cat fight. I, for one, don't believe that the creator of this universe and everything within it would even bother with such trivial things

~Sovereign

reply to post by QueenofSpades


I thought the devil was referred to as Lucifer!
Lucifer: The archangel cast from heaven for leading the revolt of the angels!
Satan: The angel who in Jewish belief is commanded by God to tempt humans to sin, to accuse the sinners, and to carry out God's punishment!
So by these two definitions they might very well be two entirely different beings!
The definition for Lucifer is: The light bearer.
The term Lucifer also refers to the morning star.
Referring to the planet Venus!
The definition of Satan is: Adversary.
I believe from what I've read that Satan and Lucifer are two sides of the same coin.
Lucifer is the light and Satan the dark but they are both the same entity.
From what I have been able to gather: Lucifer ie... Satan was a seraphim angel.
This is the highest of the order of angels and was the lords most powerful of his
servants but God wanted Lucifer to bow down before his supposed greatest creation
"man kind" and Lucifer refused and rebelled along with others whom were loyal to
Lucifer. Those that were still loyal to the wishes of God led by Michael the Archangel
were able to cast out Lucifer and his followers into the pit of darkness or to earth!
The text does not specify! Now Lucifer is intent on destroying man kind.
I believe even before Lucifer was cast out of heaven he was empowered by god with
tempting mankind as he did in the garden of Eden, tempting eve with the fruit of
knowledge which contained the knowledge of good and evil! After Adam and Eve
ate from the forbidden fruit they were banished out of the garden and for Eve's
role in tempting Adam she and all her offspring would suffer in the act of giving
birth~!
It is said Lucifer is the most beautiful of all the angels as he is the most
powerful! He was definitely the most self righteous of Gods creations
and this was why he refused to bow before man because he believed that
man kind was beneath him and he would not bow down before such an inferior
being as us!

sk0rpi0n
so basically this is one of those ''dude, what if the devil is the good guy'' type of threads thats been done over and over on ATS. Going by the backstory, Satan hated humans for the sole reason that humans are made from ''clay''. He thought he was superior to humans for being made of ''fire''. I wouldn't consider as a ''friend'' somebody who thinks he is better than me because of his skin or eye color. So those who hail Satan as a ''hero'' don't realise that their ''hero'' looks down upon them simply for being human.

The whole Satan not worshipping Adam and fire / clay thing is allegorical and esoteric in nature. As fire turns clay into terracotta, Satan is set to transform Man from formless clay to the work of God's hands and then hardned and made eternal through fire as some form of divine metamorphosis. Clay also has another pro, it hermetically seals off biological tissue when packed around it, allowing seeds and food, wood and even bodies to be preserved through thousands of years. Look at the soft tissue found in T-Rex dragons found in China not too long ago. When will China have the first Jurasic zoo up and running?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

I have never heard of this version before.

Why would you need to hear it anywhere, it's written right there in front of you. Gird up the loins of your mind....