Satan: Humanity's Hero

smithjustinb

Utnapisjtim
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Read the Tibetan Book of the Dead-- it's an eye-opener.

Ive looked at it before. What does it have to do with what you are saying? You keep replying to my posts without answering any of my questions and without addressing anything I say.

The book discribes how death is not the end, and is basically a how-to book on reincarnation. I'd say it relates well to my understanding or life and death, that death is not the end, life is eternal and time is not linear, nor does it have any mass, so thoughts may travel in time. There is no such thing as coincidence, all is part of something magnificent. After having reviewed reality, the chance of ending up how and where I did in this incarnation, well the odds are impossible, thus will and intent must have been involved in my birth. I'm here for a reason, I just don't quite know what it is yet.

What about the texts that list the 'demons' of Hell. I'll have to do a search for them (from memory it was the Book of Solomon or Keys of Solomon) but there's a massive list of all the Presidents and Kings of Hell. If Satans the misunderstood good guy why does he live in the firey pits and God floats around on a cloud? who are all of the presidents and kings of Hell?

reply to post by QueenofSpades


Did you happen to get the idea for this thread from this article? Your thread was authored the same day the article came out.

Satan comes out looking pretty good in Genesis. After God tells Adam he will die on the day he eats a particular piece of fruit, Satan (in a snake costume) tells Eve that the snack will give them knowledge. So they eat the forbidden fruit, enjoy their newly acquired knowledge, and learn that God was bluffing when he said they would die on the day they ate the fruit. A wrathful God then banishes the first couple from the Garden of Eden and tells them they must now work for a living. Adam and Eve presumably discover that ignorance is not bliss and that blind obedience is not a virtue. Though many Christians view this disobedience as the "original sin," I think Satan teaches humans that it's better to have freedom without a guarantee of security than to have security without freedom.

Interpretations of the biblical character "Satan" can motivate some people to live decent, rational lives. For instance: be curious and seek knowledge; question the sacred; reject authorities that expect blind obedience; encourage free inquiry; welcome diversity of opinion; judge individuals by their actions, not by whether they conform to arbitrary norms; respect the freedom of others, including the freedom to offend; and acknowledge the worth and dignity of the "out" group.

The word "Satan" in Hebrew means adversary. The Catholic Church recognized this adversarial role when it established in 1587 the position Promoter of the Faith, more commonly known as the devil's advocate. He was required to argue against declaring a particular dead person a saint, and to be skeptical of so-called miracles attributed to the deceased. Given the number of recognized miracles and named saints by the Church, I think most devil's advocates were probably incompetent (the number of miracles I accept is zero). Pope John Paul II must have thought that these advocates were too evidence-based, because he abolished the position in 1983, and then named to sainthood more than five times as many individuals as had all his 20th-century predecessors combined.

Article continued

Some of the points are very similar. Facts usually are though, but I am still wondering. If you hadn't read it before it may help your thesis.

Kalixi
What about the texts that list the 'demons' of Hell. I'll have to do a search for them (from memory it was the Book of Solomon or Keys of Solomon) but there's a massive list of all the Presidents and Kings of Hell. If Satans the misunderstood good guy why does he live in the firey pits and God floats around on a cloud? who are all of the presidents and kings of Hell?

From my understanding the idea of satan actually inhabiting hell is a concept introduced from more modern sources, and that originally satan inhabited one of the 'lesser heavens'.

Check that podcast I posted earlier up the thread. Robert M. Price discusses all of that..

He talks about how a large amount of the modern tenets and characteristics of hell and satan came from the influence the Zoroastrians had on the Jews at the time. The concept of an arch nemesis of god, of a fiery hell and the idea of a final judgement came from these guys.

They also believed in the concept of a saviour who would be born of a virgin...

Zoroastrianism at wikipedia

reply to post by Grimpachi


problem is, it isn't accurate.

satan is not the serpent in the garden.
and he didn't create us.
the serpent did create us and is not satan.

the adversary/accuser is like the prosecuting attorney. that's the guy in the old testament who is frequently trying to figure out how to punish humans next, from an impossible law to keep, to stoning your wives and children, to making fifty percent of the population an inferior species and then appealing to man's pride to keep it that way, to putting lying spirits in the ears of humans to trick them, to a plethora of other bizarre attributes that do not sound like the god of the new testament, whatsoever. in fact, they aren't the same, for the most part.

the divine courtroom contains at least 3 personages"

the prosecuting attorney (the accuser)
the defense attorney (jesus)
and the judge (heavenly father)

i don't think the prosecuting attorney is the holy spirit so the holy spirit is other and not discussed in detail. afterall, how could the prosecutor be the comforter?

reply to post by undo


Have considered the possibility they are actually one in the same thing bouncing people around to get the clearest picture of what is inside the hearts intent? I have come across people who do this exact same thing to extract information from myself personally.

What I have learned is the mind is 2/3 and the third (3/3), it is like an infinite line/source that the two part mind allows to flow through it. It flows through every atom in our bodies.

Think about it, you have two brains, the left is all about control and boundaries (the accuser), the right is all about freedom and expression (the defender) and the judge, is how our attitudes weigh our individual acceptance of how the mind interacts with our surrounding.
This is a concept I have come to understand and it is a singularity mind. There is no point for me really trying to explain it any other way, because this is what is real, what can be objectified and the only mystery is what comes next when not worrying about what comes next.

This is how mental alchemy works, the mind is in control of its own atomic structure so the ability to project without emotions becomes an easy habit. Truth and honest from the individuals perspective is no longer something that creates the defence mechanism. There is no reason to suggest humans have to flow with time, we can simply ignore the effects by keeping the mind focused in the moment of the now and the body does not experience accelerated entropy.

I just thought I would share my thoughts, if it does not resonate then so be it.

Agree with OP 100%. s&f

In islam, satan is called ibliis and here too he is wrongfully deemed evil/rebel. he was thrown out of heaven for not obeying a command that was not given to him. according to islam, he is a jinn and the command to bow to adam was given specifically to angels.

UltraverseMaximus

Logarock
reply to post by UltraverseMaximus

 

I don't buy that philosophy and an familiar with it. Its still short. Don't think your good acts or kind deeds will seal a deal for you. That's book of the dead stuff, part of the Babylonian mystery teachings, weighing of the heart. The scales will always be against you.

The Great Deception.

Do you know my God do you? You sure sound confident you do. I am not looking to seal any deal for myself that is where you are misinformed. In fact I can guarantee that I will outlast you in this life, but don't take my word for it, you pray to your pretenders and eventually you will be tested.
My test lasted seven hours and was the most excruciating pain I have ever experienced. If you think my deeds to people has no weight then I will bet my heart against your right now. Do we have a deal?

so your god is better than his god?

who or what is your god?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

So in order to win, we must first lose. We must lose our lives, our bodies, our possessions, our dreams and hopes, and our potential. Then we will be given it all back for the express and eternal purpose of kissing God's ass forevermore. I would rather live once as a freethinking mortal than spend forever as a regretful immortal feeling like I'm dying on the inside.

lol, yeah, something like that.

what, not up to the challenge?

would you rather kiss the devils ass forever?

Specimen
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

It definitely could be. Praying and fearing idol images, or statues that are mean`t to represent God. Worship is a sad form of humility really.

However, idolizing nature beauty is one thing I enjoy respecting. Although I`m far from the obsessive tree hugger.

how can you even say that?

nature is Gods work. it's His creation which means it's His. an idol that you idolize.

what is wrong with you people?
you think God didn't make everything?

Logarock

CynConcepts

Logarock
reply to post by CynConcepts

 

What was the deception? God told them not to eat it or they would die or in effect lose their state of immortality. Satan told them that God was a liar and that they wouldn't die.

They didn't die after they ate the fruit. God's deceit is in his own vanity. He wanted ignorant worshippers, not someone to question his edicts. Did he tell Adam and Eve that if they ate of the tree of Life, they would be Gods? No, apparently at that time it was discussed among the Gods and determined that we should be thrown from the garden.

They were removed from the garden so that they wouldn't gain immortality in their corrupt state. They had enough of that sort running around.

And really, who are we to question His edicts? We were never intended to be that sort of partner with God. How can man judge God out of mans limited understanding? Satan hasn't taught man anything save for what great levels man could take his rebellion against his creator.

satan is teaching people that they can be just like God.

and they are buying it.

they are going over the top on it too.
nothing like some dude trying to tell you what to even think.

please, don't even go there. it's not the same. God is not pc.

In the Garden of Eden, Lord God is upset when God, later cosidered a Serpent (aka: a traitor) decides to enlighten humanity with knowledge by advancing their intelligence. Why upset? Because you don't need your slaves being too smart

A whole bunch of false premises can only lead to false conclusions. And in the process, you do nothing but slander the character of your Creator. As has been pointed out, it was not the tree of knowledge, therefore just in this false assumption you accuse your Creator of 1) being against knowledge despite the fact that He created your mind and thinking ability and 2) accuse Him of being a slave master that enjoys slaves.

I don't think that you can even begin to contemplate why the devil is alternately called a slanderer and accuser. What has your ignorance and non understanding led you to do? The end result of which is to reject Him and His salvation - and eternal life.

Now please tell us all again how 'Satan is your hero"?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Logarock

 

Risk losing any redeemed of mankind. He really didn't want robots and loved the special relationship He had with mankind.....but had to give man the freedom to fall. Man was never a robot. Man was however blind to the full nature, the profound nature of the relationship between good and evil. This was the original condition of the relationship between man and God and God loved it that way.

Which reflects the presumption that there is only one way to the top of the mountain. If you are not on that path, you are on the way to an expedient and painful landing at the bottom. I tend to disagree - strongly disagree.

Heck man didn't even know he was naked. Well satan fixed all that for us and it is through these "opened" eyes that some now judge God for being a heal. Satan knew God had a hard side and wanted man to get a taste of that. So now we are like the angles caught up in the war between good and evil. Being part of it.

So what you're saying is, Satan helped us see the whole truth and now we are suffering for having accepted his aid? Was God's intention to keep us holed up in the garden for all of eternity, never knowing there was a "rest of the planet", let alone a "rest of the galaxy" or "rest of the universe"? Were we like cattle, to be contained and controlled, because our free will was no more effective outside the garden than inside? We would still be ignorant, still be naive, still be weak.

You are making a very poor case in defense of such an arrangement. But Satan...Satan gave God an opportunity to let us go. Satan, God's sworn enemy and most disgraced creation, entered the safe haven containing God's most precious creation and illuminated its awareness without trouble. God was only handy AFTER the snake crept in, AFTER the snake found Eve, AFTER Eve summoned Adam and coaxed him into partaking. All-knowing, all-powerful God was just as helpful as a rock until the deed was done. That's pretty pathetic. How does someone so controlling and so meticulous make such a huge mistake? It makes no sense. But either way, Satan helped to free them.

And yet, he's the bad guy.

edit on 14-3-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

motivation? what is his?

why would he want to do that.

i see, just to separate you from God? and connect you to what?

your own self?

The OP need look no further than the fruits of those that worship Satan. And what do these people bring? War and harm to the world. If Satan was humanity's savior, we would have known of him by now as such.

Well Satan basically said "that if you give humanity total freedom and I look after it, I can do a better job than you God".
God basically said "ok go for it, we will see with the passage of time if you are correct", an issue was raised. God had two basic options here kill all the rebels right away, or let it play out, he choose the latter. He never gave up his right to take action as per events like the flood, but basically he has let things play out with Satan in control to prove his point. For humanity this experiment has been extremely painful. And many humans thus vehemently disagree with God because of it. And that is typical of a being that lives 70-100 years, there perception of reality would be completely different from a being that had no beginning and is all powerful.

Satan has failed, he should have been interested in having human government and institutions be very successful.
Instead he allowed and promoted greed that would cause one persons ultimate freedom to oppress another as witnessed throughout history.

As seen on ATS we have systems of banking and ruler-ship that fails humanity, we have tried every form of government and they all failed to be equitable to it's people. Even America when it best represented in better days a better form of government had no problem suppressing slaves and killing natives.

To prove God wrong the history of even modern times would not be filled with injustice and genocides, Satan should have been interested in ruling successfully. Personally my opinion is Satan gave up on this endevour when at the flood God wiped on his brothers children, from then on he would rule humanity into ruination.

Satan is no hero he has failed in a most epic way, in fact he will infamously forever be known as the biggest universal loser.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


So God loves us so much that he gives us as play things to Satan. That's honestly nice to know. See this is where I remove myself from scripture while continuing to believe in whichever being created this universe.

simsumre
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

 

So God loves us so much that he gives us as play things to Satan. That's honestly nice to know. See this is where I remove myself from scripture while continuing to believe in whichever being created this universe.

i think it would be more accurate to say that the planets in charted and inhabited parts of the universe, have extra-terrestrial owners. that these owners all agree to follow certain guidelines, not unlike the prime directive in star trek, and that once a life form arises or is created on a planet, it becomes the purview of the planet owner. to change this, the planet either must change owners or laws have to be enacted that limit the authority of the owner over the lifeforms. it's not unlike the court system we have in place, but with a much more grandiose scale.

the owner of this planet is satan. it's his planet that we are over populating, supposedly. he has a contender for ownership (jesus) who won the place, by meeting satan's criteria for the deal. however, the law says that new ownership can only take place on specific galactic calendar days, most specifically at the dawning of a new age. so we are awaiting, patiently, the transfer of the place from one owner to the next. sadly, biblical texts claim that before the old owner gives it up he will try to devastate it and make it inhospitable for the new owner and his creation. an act of revenge, out of spite no doubt

undo

simsumre
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

 

So God loves us so much that he gives us as play things to Satan. That's honestly nice to know. See this is where I remove myself from scripture while continuing to believe in whichever being created this universe.

i think it would be more accurate to say that the planets in charted and inhabited parts of the universe, have extra-terrestrial owners. that these owners all agree to follow certain guidelines, not unlike the prime directive in star trek, and that once a life form arises or is created on a planet, it becomes the purview of the planet owner. to change this, the planet either must change owners or laws have to be enacted that limit the authority of the owner over the lifeforms. it's not unlike the court system we have in place, but with a much more grandiose scale.

the owner of this planet is satan. it's his planet that we are over populating, supposedly. he has a contender for ownership (jesus) who won the place, by meeting satan's criteria for the deal. however, the law says that new ownership can only take place on specific galactic calendar days, most specifically at the dawning of a new age. so we are awaiting, patiently, the transfer of the place from one owner to the next. sadly, biblical texts claim that before the old owner gives it up he will try to devastate it and make it inhospitable for the new owner and his creation. an act of revenge, out of spite no doubt

edit on 15-3-2014 by undo because: (no reason given)

I have no idea what I just read... honestly, are you on about aliens or Satan buying Earth on ebay?

reply to post by simsumre


if you read the text of the bible carefully, you will notice satan taking jesus up in a high mountain and showing him the kingdoms of rhe world and offering him a deal, something to the effect of--

hey buddy, tell ya what i'm gonna do, if you call off the original deal we made and work in my hierarchy instead, i'll put you in charge (but i'll have the final say, he adds under his breath) and you won't have to fulfill the requirements of our original deal.

the original deal was that if jesus wanted the planet so bad and felt stupid humans were such a great creation, he could prove it. since satan was a fan of blood sacrifice, particularly of human beings, he made that his requirement, assuming jesus would give up the plan, since humans truly were stupid and not worth dying for.

he lost the deal.
jesus won.

one way you can prove to yourself that the ancient texts are telling you something extremely important about the extra terrestrial hierarchy of this planet that tptb don't want you to know, is to study the history of female gendercide. it's all over the planet, for millenia. religions, governments, atheistic, agnostic, pagan, abrahamic, buddhist, muslim, hindu, doesn't matter. every major world institution has historically abused and even authorized the genocide of females and not just on a small scale or occasionally, but on a massive scale. and the reason ? we ladies create more humans. there's no way you can claim it's just humans wanting to control population growth, thousands of years ago up till this very day. i can see it being argued as a modern human concoction, but historically, no way

read this
www.gendercide.org...