To all who believe in ghosts.. Let me put this myth to rest!

alienreality

br0ker

GrimReaper86 reply to post by br0ker

 

So I don't suppose you believe in the wind or electricity or gravity either? All of which are non phsyical entities that have real phsyical impacts. Energy is force, and only energy is necessary to generate force or to impact the physical. So if a ghost is a form of energy, they can likely find ways to generate force as well. Especially with electricity, and our brain; is a collection of electrical impulses. So a non phsyical floating entity with the power to manipulate electricity may infact have some level of intelligence. Also, I've seen a ghost. In person. Even for someone who claims to have a scientific way of disproving ghosts, you sure do have a narrow view of what science is capable of.

Better go back to the books mate! You need some kind of mass to create energy and you need mass to contain energy. Wind is gas in motion by pressure. Gravity is excerted by mass and space, and electricity is electrons contained. That is also is the case with "force", for example mass in movement. So Sir, what contains your ghostly "energy", for it not to diccipate or change?

Photons have no mass.. and they are energy ... so there is one of those flaws you wanted me to point out..

Stop using your own version of science to support your claims..

I'll play.. Ok, so how would you create photons from NO MASS?
So your ghosts are photons flying around everywhere or do you contain them by your quantum mech?
Lol

I'm calling the first law of energy on this one: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

br0ker

Cuervo

br0ker
This should be extremely reasonable to most people. Yet I'm shocked how you can be so unscientific about the fact.

If a ghost should be able to move things, manifest itself to be viewed, or make sounds then it HAS to be a physical entity. A non-physical entity can not, in ANY way MOVE physical things. To be seen it needs to be physical as well, otherwise there is NO way to reflect light.

And most of all, to interact with you, it would need a brain. No physical entity=no brain=no mind and thought.

And the physical part of what you call a ghost is long gone and buried. It is only buried bones, if anything at all.

So, lets put this to rest. Unless you have some kind of scientific facts that would make all this mumbojumbo possible?

edit on 11-3-2014 by br0ker because: Spelling

Basically, the only thing you said is "the supernatural can't exist because it's supernatural".

Wow.

No, I said ghost can't exist because of universal laws.

Universal laws are not "laws"; they are habits. Habits in physics are broken occasionally. What about the Higgs field hierarchy problem with gravity or the fact that CERN just shot a particle beam faster than the speed of light a couple of years ago?

We use math as an absolute to determine outcomes. We are finding that math is more of a bendy type of science itself which is going to have to get even bendier in order to keep up with discoveries or it will need to take a side-seat to observational science as equal partners.

And, for the sake of argument, let's say all of the universal laws are unbreakable. Which laws exactly are being broken with your ghosts that can't be demonstrated by other natural phenomenon?

schuyler

CallmeRaskolnikov
in my opinion it is not my responsibility nor the responsibility of anyone else who is an experiencer to figure out how the non-physical universe interacts and folds into the physical universe. after all that is not my field.

It's not your responsibility to come up with a General Systems Theory, nor a consistent String Theory either, nor explore the possibility of FTL travel. If you want to opt out and rely on personal experience, there's nothing stopping you. But your attitude of "maybe it isn't explainable" reminds me of the patent clerk who thought maybe there was "nothing left to invent." That's Okay on a personal level, but it isn't Okay on a cultural level. If Science stops progressing because people figured it wasn't their responsibility to investigate Quantum Mechanics then our knowledge of the Universe would be restricted and stuck in the Era of Newton.

Figuring this out is important for the future of our species and would profoundly change the world. If we could show, scientifically, how we do survive death and that there is an "Other Side," then it would change the way we live our lives. It would utterly change religion, for example. And if we could get commerce and real-time communication going between the two realms, our lives and the purpose of our lives would change forever, literally.

I suspect in some circles that has been done, but in most, including ours, it is still in the realm of magic and superstition. I don't mind the slightest of people aren't interested. All that means is that you are not a factor in any solution, but if that's true then don't impede the progress. We need to answer the materialists, because that is fundamental. we don't need to ask you. Either lead or follow or get out of the way.

edit on 3/12/2014 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

i agree with you. however, i think it's that very impact you spoke of that this discovery would have on our world religions and world view, perhaps even our energy based industries that prevents this from being made concrete and brought to the light of day. i don't think it's in the governments of the world's general interest to prove that the spirit is real and like you said i'm sure that in some circles it has already been done only to remain in the shadows somewhere.

EyesOpenMouthShut
I'm calling the first law of energy on this one: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

i second that wholeheartedly! i'm constantly telling people that in reference to this topic and i think that fact is imperative to remember.


i think this quote goes perfectly with that law...

"Nature does not know extinction; all it knows is transformation. Everything science has taught me, and continues to teach me, strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death." - von braun

CallmeRaskolnikov

EyesOpenMouthShut
I'm calling the first law of energy on this one: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

i second that wholeheartedly! i'm constantly telling people that in reference to this topic and i think that fact is imperative to remember.


i think this quote goes perfectly with that law...

"Nature does not know extinction; all it knows is transformation. Everything science has taught me, and continues to teach me, strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death." - von braun

I like theese two, lets run with them and soak our brains.

If the law is correct then from where does energy come. As it can never disappear, only take on other forms?
If the universe keeps expanding then everything will eventually get torn to miniscule pieces. The mass will still be there but in ever smaller pieces until what? Untill the mass that stores the energy turns into some kind of energy itself? Imploding and then exploding? Sounds like this could be a theory of both repitition of the universe as well as the Big Bang

The personal experiences of people are not 'myths'.
Daily Mail
1/5 of Americans have seen ghosts.
1/3 of Americans have had contact with 'the dead'.

Obviously there are ghosts and the dead can many times be in contact with the living.
Obviously we don't know all there is to know about how this happens. YET.

Bottom line - ghosts exist. Deal with it.

br0ker

Cuervo

br0ker
This should be extremely reasonable to most people. Yet I'm shocked how you can be so unscientific about the fact.

If a ghost should be able to move things, manifest itself to be viewed, or make sounds then it HAS to be a physical entity. A non-physical entity can not, in ANY way MOVE physical things. To be seen it needs to be physical as well, otherwise there is NO way to reflect light.

And most of all, to interact with you, it would need a brain. No physical entity=no brain=no mind and thought.

And the physical part of what you call a ghost is long gone and buried. It is only buried bones, if anything at all.

So, lets put this to rest. Unless you have some kind of scientific facts that would make all this mumbojumbo possible?

edit on 11-3-2014 by br0ker because: Spelling

Basically, the only thing you said is "the supernatural can't exist because it's supernatural".

Wow.

No, I said ghost can't exist because of universal laws.

I'm going to pull a page from the religious folks for you. "You cannot prove a negative." Not to mention, you nor any other human on the planet is knowledgeable of all the universal laws, so saying something can or cannot be so based on universal laws is silly.

TritonTaranis

br0ker

TritonTaranis
Hi OP

Just popped in to say I've seen ghosts on a number of occasions and twice with other people in the same room, we all witnessed a dark misty shadow open the door of our bedroom and the door slam shut very violently shaking the house

So this kinda goes against your theory's put fourth,

All I will say is science cannot explain everything, we're still very you g as a species were probably not even into out galactic infancy yet

And I'll back that up by asking you to explain the physics within a black hole?

That dark place where physics and all rules disappear and breakdown I to kaos

So you all drew the conclusion that this shadow was a ghost "an entity from a dead person"? Why?

Couldn't it have been something else, real and physical that you never encountered or heard of before?

No

I don't believe this thing was a spirit of a dead person and I think this is a massive misconception tbh, as that is not what a ghost is in my mind, in my mind.. a ghost is an energy an entity of sorts, I've never really seen any real ghosts that resemble people, only once, but the majority or the time the kind I've seen are shadow like, huge dark shadows maybe 7ft tall,

I genuinely don't think it could have been anything else, what else do you think it could have been?

This object wasn't solid nor did it have a clear outline, it almost shifted like liquid and resembled a dark moving shadow, it was so shocking to see, it was like electric running through my body, I was frozen solid crippled with fear simply because it was so out there, we all remained speechless for at least a minute or two afterwards before we could regain control over our body muscles

I was literally screaming in side did you see that for a few seconds before the words come out my mouth before turning to look left and right at my brother and my gf at the time they was just starring mouth open shocked to the core at what they had just seen,

After we had all confided in each other at what we had all seen each, it appears it was me who woke up first after a bad dream, this shadow was in my dream, chasing me, I won't go into detail on that but I have written about it on hear before... As I woke this shadow was moving in the hall way just outside the bedroom where we was all asleep,

It moved I to the room where it moved and shifted in the door shortly after the shadow began to shift back the door sucked closed and slammed shaking the entire house waking everybody up, my parent were in the room at the end of the hall, and other two brothers when in the room to the left

I have no logical answer for what I see nor does anybody else that see this, and I'd also suspect neither does science

Ok, sounds cool, in a freaky way. Was this two seperate instances? The first one real and second one a in and after a dream?

If so, first one. I do not know. But doesnt fit with the whole traditional ghost experience. Dunno what it was...Something from a different world, some test of high tech light bending or simply just Frodo putting on his ring? One helluva experience though, and I believe you.

On the other instance of the dream it might just be your subconsious working out your experience to prepare you for similar experiences. Professoonals say it's one of the reasons we dream.
So this is also one of the reasons I believe you. Must have made an impression on you for you to dream of it.

On a side note, I've had dreams mix with reality numerous times. I could dream of spiders, become "half awake" and see them on the walls in my physical room. I might also be more prone to experiencing this because I often sleep with my eyes open. And sometimes it scares the daylight out of my wife

br0ker
I could dream of spiders, become "half awake" and see them on the walls in my physical room. I might also be more prone to experiencing this because I often sleep with my eyes open. And sometimes it scares the daylight out of my wife

If you sleep with your eyes open, how do you now you aren't dreaming about what you are seeing instead of the other way around?

Just wait until your wife wakes up and sees them, too. The black writhing mass being seen in the corners of rooms are an actual thing and can be seen by more than one person at once. You should look it up, you might be interested.

FlyersFan
The personal experiences of people are not 'myths'.
Daily Mail
1/5 of Americans have seen ghosts.
1/3 of Americans have had contact with 'the dead'.

Obviously there are ghosts and the dead can many times be in contact with the living.
Obviously we don't know all there is to know about how this happens. YET.

Bottom line - ghosts exist. Deal with it.

We live for 25 000 days. The odds are good that you`ll have one day where your brain plays tricks on you because of sickness, hangover, exhaustion, hunger, drugs, fear, darkness+immagination, simply just tunnel vision, or interpetation of movement of shade in a room due to light changing through a w i n d o w.

Also, 50% of everyone in the world believe in a God and afterlife. Simply based of faith.. so belief is rooted deep and can be based on nothing - where nothing=faith.

To round this off I`ll say that it must be comfortable thinking that when you die, you`re not really gone. I also think this is one of the most common reasons why people find a God to believe in. Fear of death, or fear of just about anything..

Cuervo

br0ker
I could dream of spiders, become "half awake" and see them on the walls in my physical room. I might also be more prone to experiencing this because I often sleep with my eyes open. And sometimes it scares the daylight out of my wife

If you sleep with your eyes open, how do you now you aren't dreaming about what you are seeing instead of the other way around?

Just wait until your wife wakes up and sees them, too. The black writhing mass being seen in the corners of rooms are an actual thing and can be seen by more than one person at once. You should look it up, you might be interested.

hehe.. it`s not as bad as you might think. I don`t usually see what`s in my room when I sleep. Mainly because your consiousness (part of the brain) takes a break when you sleep, and your subconsious kicks in and handles all you impressions and experiences throughout the day.

So all I see is darkness when I`m deep sleep, it`s when dreaming+waking up I`ve had those experiences.

Heard of the black mass / shadow people and stuff like that.. as long as it`s not people saying they saw a man / some dead persons spirit aka ghost, then it`s ok in my book. Could be just about anything, and I`m open to mysteries.

It`s the whole thing of dead people coming back I don`t see as a possibility due to my MASSIVE intellect and IQ... lol

reply to post by pheonix358


I have seen the ghost of my dead cat... a few days after she died I did see her...she appeared to be transparent. That was the first time I did see a ghost and ever since I believe in them. I wasn't meditating or asking for her to appear, it was an unexpected surprise. A welcome surprise I would like to add.

There is so much we do not understand about nature and its laws. If you say things like an object to need a physical body for it to relflect light and such...you are probably right but...who knows, that can well be part of the explanation.

zatara
reply to post by pheonix358

 

I have seen the ghost of my dead cat... a few days after she died I did see her...she appeared to be transparent. That was the first time I did see a ghost and ever since I believe in them. I wasn't meditating or asking for her to appear, it was an unexpected surprise. A welcome surprise I would like to add.

There is so much we do not understand about nature and its laws. If you say things like an object to need a physical body for it to relflect light and such...you are probably right but...who knows, that can well be part of the explanation.

edit on 13/3/2014 by zatara because: an

Cool.. I liked the last part about it maybe being part of the explanation. I`m a big fan of Charlie Munger, and he always says REVERSE (about problems). So let me know when you figure out how your transparent cat was able to reflect enough light for you to see it, but not enough to not be transparent. And keeping in mind that his body was buried somewhere else.

PS.
Some guy is gonna pop up soon and relate this (and ghosts in general) to "time-slip" of some sort, to that guy, in a future post I have this to say: If it was a time slip, why was the cat transparent? If it`s a time slip shouldn`t the cat be where it was? Or are you saying that only part of the cat encountered a "time-slip"? sorry, just couldn`t help my self adressing the possible future post. After all, this is ATS

reply to post by br0ker


No. Seeing ghosts isn't 'faith based'. And It isn't all hallucinations.
I can't wait for the day you are haunted. I wonder if you'll even admit it when it happens to you.
Something tells me that you won't.

This is a useless discussion. Out/

br0ker
So let me know when you figure out how your transparent cat was able to reflect enough light for you to see it, but not enough to not be transparent.

I am not a physicist and had not in mind to ponder the question....However, it does remind me of how it is possible to see your reflection in a window pane. I mean..not all the light goes through the window and not all light does bounce back from it...

br0ker
This should be extremely reasonable to most people. Yet I'm shocked how you can be so unscientific about the fact.

If a ghost should be able to move things, manifest itself to be viewed, or make sounds then it HAS to be a physical entity. A non-physical entity can not, in ANY way MOVE physical things. To be seen it needs to be physical as well, otherwise there is NO way to reflect light.

It doesn't have to be seen to exist. There are lots of physical things you can't see, even in 3D. And then there's all the other, higher dimensions of course.
Imagine you poke your finger into the plane of 2D entity. You could crush it or move things around (interact with), and the 2D entity wouldn't be able to see nish. It would just see a 2D representation of your hand/finger. Now imagine an entity from a higher dimension interacting with the 3rd dimension. You would only be able to see 3/4, 3/5, 3/6 etc. of their physical body. That is why ghosts sometimes look translucent, or almost completely transparent. The pellucidity is divided by the number of the dimension the entity resides in.

And most of all, to interact with you, it would need a brain. No physical entity=no brain=no mind and thought.

And the physical part of what you call a ghost is long gone and buried. It is only buried bones, if anything at all.

So, lets put this to rest. Unless you have some kind of scientific facts that would make all this mumbojumbo possible?

edit on 11-3-2014 by br0ker because: Spelling

What makes you think they aren't physical entities?

It's ALL physics.

reply to post by GalaxyEyes


Have you read this book? Flatla nd: A Romance of Many Dimensions

It's about a 3d object (a sphere) interacting with the 2d world and how everything perceives it.

You need to provide more then your skeptics view on the matter, brand new to the community and already you challenge the veteran masses..., how brave, how foolish, how ignorant.
I have experienced a paranormal event that I couldn't explain, I am a believer, the facts? give me some funding and Ill jump right on it for you.
---
IS IT ME? OR HAS AN INFLUX OF NEW MEMBERS SUDDENLY START CHALLENGING THE VERY NOTION OF TOPICS HERE IN ATS?
Seriously, this is the 3rd Thread I have seen with a member, fresh with a new diaper, makes a thread and flat out denies all and everything, without their own research and links but just word of mouth that we already here day in and day out.
I won't entertain this OP request to give him evidence.