To all who believe in ghosts.. Let me put this myth to rest!

reply to post by br0ker

Dude .. don't bother. You've been schooled by Gemwolf (and others).
You bunted and are 'out'. Gemwolf hit a home run and cleared the bases. Bu-bye. /out

FlyersFan
reply to post by br0ker

 

Dude .. don't bother. You've been schooled by Gemwolf (and others).
You bunted and are 'out'. Gemwolf hit a home run and cleared the bases. Bu-bye. /out

Well.. that`s your opinion, and you`re entitled to it.

To me it`s beyond belief that someone can say that ghosts (spirits/souls of dead people) exist, and that they`re roaming earth. "Just that they haven`t been discovered yet."
And then base that conclusion of the facts of a non-discoveries - everything that has been discovered in science that we didn`t know before we discovered it.

That`s like saying that there is such a thing as an opposite universe, and it`s connected to our universe because someone has made a movie about it. And the only reason why we haven`t found it yet is because we haven`t gotten there yet.

Better yet.. it`s the same as saying that everything you can imagine that somebody say they`ve dreamt actually exists, based on the discoveries we`ve made of things we didn`t know before we actually discovered it.

Explain nothing with nothing and we have a winner..!? Yeah! That`s a sound philosophy!!

So if you call that "out-schooling". Then sure.. anyone can be "out-schooled" if the accepted conclusion is explaining nothing with nothing.

br0ker


To me it`s beyond belief that someone can say that ghosts (spirits/souls of dead people) exist, and that they`re roaming earth. "Just that they haven`t been discovered yet."

To be honest, ghosts is one thing I do have some issues with.
I believe energy cannot disappear and perhaps when we die it's more like residual energy... that I could perhaps buy, but I agree that I don't believe the souls or spirits of dead people roam around the earth trying to make contact with us or sweeping the halls of the place they were murdered or whatever it may be.

Having said that, I don't actually know this and certainly wouldn't try to prove it with a theory or "science" because you cannot prove that something does not exist, only that something does exist, or that there is enough evidence or probability that something COULD exist, ie; life on other planets, earth like planets etc.

It's a pointless debate to have really, ghosts exist, no they don't, yes they do... much like the God debate

reply to post by br0ker

 

How about if you are going to open a can of worms like this, YOU give ALL of US Scientific proof that Ghosts do NOT exist?
Because Br0ken, when when WE do our SCIENTIFIC tests to find out, we are NOT ALLOWED to KEEP the TRUE evidence that Ghosts DO indeed EXIST for we do so in groups.
I HAVE seen PROOF. SCIENTIFIC PROOF. Yes, you read that correctly.
There are FEW if any Doctors and Nurses who have NOT seen Scientific proof beginning with our TRAINING.
Which is a true fact and completely SCIENTIFIC.
I've been attempting to open a thread to SHOW that Ghosts DO EXIST. One video which I can't seem to cut but is 4 hours long just for 3 sightings in the Audio Visual throughout the span of 4 hours. Who wants to watch a whole 4 hours for 3, 3 to 5 minute of Ghost activity?
I also have 3 photos of Ghosts.

Now on a personal level? I have seen Ghosts myself as long as I can remember and I will be 50 August 16th 2014.
I won't bore with with that evidence except to say, I thought I was crazy. I myself first went to a Psychiatrist I knew, being early in my medical career. He and his assistant did NOT for a moment think I was crazy, though they would not tell me why the did NOT think I was crazy yet, instead, sent me to a Sleep Disorder Clinic writing that I may have an unusual WAKING Sleep Paralysis.
I wondered at the time why they LET me BRING and READ my Physical Health Record and their Mental Health Assessment of my 2 visits with them, one being under Hypnosis of which they would NOT let me see or hear, stating they would when I returned?
So I still thought myself crazy but that they just wouldn't say, and I was terrified that this, " Sleep Disorder Clinic." I knew nothing about and never even heard about any such thing, never mind it being where I live. And for a week? Staying there the entire time? I was positive it was a scheme to willingly sign myself into a specialized Psych Center.
I was wrong.
It really was/is still, a Sleep Disorder Clinic, my files stating from my family Doctor ( A specialist ) and from the Psychiatrist, given my history of migraines and cluster migraines which did/can and do last anywhere from 1 to 5 weeks, they stated in the files that that may, they were positive, was a Neurology Disorder, possibly a form of Epilepsy.
That had been on a Thursday and I was to begin my one week stay that very Monday to come till Sunday.
Ironically, out of 5, the head Neurologist there was/is Dr. Krueger. Pronounced Kruger. lol! He even looks like the Original man who was on V and played the role of Freddy Kruger lol!
I was hooked up to wires and machines, constantly watched.
The 3rd afternoon it happened.
A particular Entity that my late Parents afterward, told me, was with me from birth but thought he'd stopped, revealed himself, in front of 5 highly trained, highly experienced Neurologists, Neurological interns, Nurses, etc, ALL witnessed & have on fuzzy film recording, the Entity I always called Oskar, smash a plexi glassed wall to get to me.
They were shook up and I was sent home lol!
I talked to Dr. Krueger a few weeks ago to request a copy of the whole file.
Since it occurred in 1994, he has to go through records that have been archive but he said he WILL get copies for me though it may take 6 to 8 weeks to locate. He also told me I'd been the 1st witnessed, documented case and he's only come across 7 others since.
Also, about 90% of people who have stayed in my home or I in theirs, have seen, heard or both, Oskar.
Only a few, about 30% are not fearful of him.
Their is so much more....

Interesting post for a non-believer though so the post deserves an S&F
ThankQ for your time.....

br0ker


If a ghost should be able to move things, manifest itself to be viewed, or make sounds then it HAS to be a physical entity. A non-physical entity can not, in ANY way MOVE physical things. To be seen it needs to be physical as well, otherwise there is NO way to reflect light.

And most of all, to interact with you, it would need a brain. No physical entity=no brain=no mind and thought.

And the physical part of what you call a ghost is long gone and buried. It is only buried bones, if anything at all.

So, lets put this to rest. Unless you have some kind of scientific facts that would make all this mumbojumbo possible?

WIND doesn't have Physical properties ( as in nothing solid there) yet it moves things around. You whole post is garbage because you are making tons of assumptions you cannot verify.

reply to post by br0ker


Thank you for actually making an effort to reply and writing a proper argument. I do however suspect that the language barrier is preventing my point from getting across. I will attempt once more to make my point.

I'll briefly address your last reply and then move back to your initial attempt to "put the myth to rest".

To Science or Not to Science - that is the question

Emphasis mine:

br0ker
The only point you make that I acknowledge is the fact that science moves on - but ghosts aren`t science.

I think you're starting to confuse yourself. Let's look at your very first paragraph:

br0ker
Yet I'm shocked how you can be so unscientific about the fact.
...
Unless you have some kind of scientific facts that would make all this mumbojumbo possible?

So which is it? "Ghosts aren't science"? I've used many facts and examples to illustrate that "science" cannot possibly rule out the existence of ghosts.

(I'll get back to the rest of your paragraph momentarily - just want to cover the rest first.)

...But labeling an experienced event that hasn`t been researched and proven right, as a dead persons spirit/soul, just isn`t scientific in ANY way.
...

Sorry, but that makes no sense at all. Why can't one label an experience? Surely you must put a name to something? Just because something hasn't been observed in a laboratory does not mean it doesn't exist. Does something exist only from the moment it was published in a science journal? How does a lack of data make anything "unscientific"?

I'll use my example of ball lighting again. And I'll remind you that ball lightning was reject by the scientific community up until at least 1963 because it was "unscientific". There's no scientific explanation for balls of lightning, although there are several proposed theories and no-one any longer denies their existence. For illustrative purposes I'm going to replace the word "Ball Lightning" with "Ghost" in this paragraph from Wikipedia:

...Scientific data on natural ghosts are scarce, owing to its infrequency and unpredictability. The presumption of its existence is based on reported public sightings, and has therefore produced somewhat inconsistent findings. Given inconsistencies and lack of reliable data, the true nature of ghosts is still unknown. The first ever optical spectrum of what appears to have been a ghost was published in January 2014 and included a video at high frame rate...

The point being that a lack of data does not equate to something not existing or being "unscientific".

Stop. Collaborate and listen.

Before we continue. We may have missed an important step in problem solving, and that is defining the problem.
Do you know exactly what the myth is you want to put to rest? What is the definition of a ghost?

There is the popular theory that a ghost is the soul of a dead person trapped between the supposed world of the living and the world of the dead - often because of "unfinished business" or because the person does not know he/she is dead.
They can also be "spirits" - where spirits are alleged discarnate beings that range from angels and demons to elves, fairies and some types of monsters, among other alleged entities.
Alternatively a ghost can also be an energetic imprint that a person (or even inanimate objects) leave behind.
Not to forget the ones that looks like they have a sheet over their heads and go "booooooo"...

The short answer is - we don't know. Perhaps there are ghost sightings that are something completely different? Unless we can get a clear definition of what exactly is classified as a ghost, we can't really focus on the "busting the myth"...

Some more sciency stuff

No, I`m saying that non-mass can`t reflect light - so it can`t be seen. Ergo - not a dead persons soul without mass you`ve seen.
I am also saying that no mass can`t move mass - so a dead persons soul can`t open a cubborn.

Ah. Who says ghosts are reflecting light? Have you considered that they perhaps emit light? Ghosts are often described as "plasma", not? Nikola Tesla would've had an absolute blast showing you light effects with "non-mass" objects.

Are you also aware of "invisible ink". As the name would suggest you can write something in "invisible ink", and the words can then only be seen under certain circumstances, such as an Ultraviolet light. Could it be that ghosts are actually always "there" but are only visible under certain circumstances? We don't know in which electromagnetic radiation spectrum they would be visible all of the time - if at all? And are we even aware of all the electromagnetic radiation spectrums to begin with!?

And what about dimensions? How many dimensions do you think there are? 3? 4? Superstring theory requires 10 spacetime dimensions? Or the 11-dimensional theory tentatively called M-theory? Do you know in/on which dimension a ghost exist? I don't, so I couldn't possibly know whether ghosts are real or not.

Oh, and have you ever weighed a ghost? Then how can you refer to it as "non mass"?
Did you know that certain crystals become invisible in certain liquids? Random example. (See also calcite crystals and polyacrylamide polymer.)
According to your "Big Book Of Rules" something that has mass reflect light. Can we therefore come to the conclusion that something that has mass but does not reflect light does NOT exist? These crystals has weight but does not reflect light ergo they don't exist...?!

Moving on to what you said next: "I am also saying that no mass can`t move mass":
There are countless of examples of "objects with no mass" that can move objects with mass.
But before we go, we need to clear up a very big mistake in your statement which makes it completely null and void. Mass does not move mass. Ever. Energy moves mass. And the exact term is technically speaking motion. So, now that we have the very basics of science covered, let's move on...

Some examples of energy that causes objects to move without visible interaction.
Wind has been mentioned many times.
Hold your iPhone in your right hand straight ahead of you. Now open your hand. Look! Gravity!
Light - including laser.
Microwaves.
And so on and so forth. The list of both visible and invisible forces that can move an object is very, very long.

The point being that your statements "a non-physical entity cannot, in ANY way MOVE physical things" or "no mass can`t move mass" are plainly wrong.

...Continued

...Continued

Brought into existence

When I say a couple there we haven`t fit into the puzzle yet I`m talking about facts we do know exist - but don`t know how they work. You are saying that ghosts(souls of dead people) is a fact.

Uhm. Wrong. (And just to clear up the confusion: I have never said that ghosts are a fact. I'm saying that you did not and cannot put the "myth of ghosts to rest". I'm saying that you cannot shrug off their existence by making some random assumptions. Science cannot disregard ghosts.)

Scientists change the "facts" almost on a daily basis.
Again - see my example of ball lightning above.
As I mentioned before: The idea that the speed of light is constant may no longer be fact. Random example. For more reading look up "Variable speed of light" and " Entanglement"
The atomic model has gone through so many shapes and forms our heads are still spinning.
Neutrinos - fact or fiction?
20 years ago it was a fact that Pluto was a planet. Not so much anymore.
A diamond is the hardest object on the planet. Nope. Try nanotwinned cubic boron nitride for size.
There are five (or three) kingdoms of classification. Nope. It's eight.

See what I think of your "facts" that exist? They only exist until someone says they don't and vice versa.

What about the evidence?

Even though there is NO evidence that shows that GHOSTS exist.

You are quite right. There is no evidence that ghosts exist.
Well, that is if you disregard the thousands - perhaps millions - of eyewitness accounts over several millennia. Hundreds of photographs and video evidence that cannot be explained. The variable success with EMF meters and sound recorders (EVPs).
The idea of ghosts has been with us pretty much as far as our written history go; and can also be found in most cultures that had no prior interaction - specifically historically speaking.

Oh, and on the topic of evidence: Absence Of Evidence Is Not Evidence Of Absence. Please do yourself a favor and read up on "Argument from ignorance".

This is the most important paragraph of my entire post, and you need to grasp this:

Keep in mind that science never proves anything. To be a theory it MUST be falsifiable. In other words, it must be possible to do an experiment, that COULD prove it wrong. This is the difference between a belief, and a scientific theory. In science, theories OUTRANK laws. So far, no one has yet been able to falsify the theory that ghosts exist.

All knowing

...It defies E V E R Y T H I N G. ....

And that is what I've been saying all this time. We don't know everything. There are way too many variables and unknowns when it comes to ghosts (and so many other things in life) to be sure of anything.

I will quote it one last time, and I urge you to try and understand it:
You don't know how much you know until you know how much you don't know.

To conclude. Finally!

Your conjecture that ghosts do not exist is simply false. You are welcome to state and believe that in your opinion ghosts do not exist. Many scientists have spent years to prove the existence (and non-existence) of ghosts and failed. You simply cannot put the myth to rest with your 3 sentence opening post, and I have illustrated time and again why not.

So your conclusion that you have finally put the "myth of ghosts to rest" based on your wild assumptions about ghosts are wrong. Plain and simple.

StormyStars
reply to post by br0ker

 

How about if you are going to open a can of worms like this, YOU give ALL of US Scientific proof that Ghosts do NOT exist?

That`s a creepy story you have there mr StormyStars. It`s pretty hard proving that something that doesn`t exist, in fact doesn`t exist.

It`s the same as me asking you to prove to me that flying cows don`t exist.
How would you go ahead proving that they don`t?
Because I`m pretty sure you agree that flying cows don`t exist.


Now, May I ask you a couple of questions?

Because Br0ken, when when WE do our SCIENTIFIC tests to find out, we are NOT ALLOWED to KEEP the TRUE evidence that Ghosts DO indeed EXIST for we do so in groups.

When you say "WE" in this manner, who are you talking about and what is your line of work?

I've been attempting to open a thread to SHOW that Ghosts DO EXIST. One video which I can't seem to cut but is 4 hours long just for 3 sightings in the Audio Visual throughout the span of 4 hours. Who wants to watch a whole 4 hours for 3, 3 to 5 minute of Ghost activity? I also have 3 photos of Ghosts.

Wow, a video that can`t be cut? If it can be played, then it can be cut.
But since you`re not able to do that, why haven`t you just played it on your screen and put a tape recorder, cellphone, or camera to record it from the screen?

A particular Entity that my late Parents afterward, told me, was with me from birth but thought he'd stopped, revealed himself, in front of 5 highly trained, highly experienced Neurologists, Neurological interns, Nurses, etc, ALL witnessed & have on fuzzy film recording, the Entity I always called Oskar, smash a plexi glassed wall to get to me.

He smashed a plexyglass wall to get to you? How did he get there in the first place, did he walk through the building opening all the doors? Or did he actually just appear there?
I guess he opened the doors like all the rest huh?
Or else he wouldn`t have to smash the plexiglass wall to get to you.

Thnx for the star and flag, and good luck with Oskar. He sounds pretty harsh..

JohnPhoenix

br0ker


If a ghost should be able to move things, manifest itself to be viewed, or make sounds then it HAS to be a physical entity. A non-physical entity can not, in ANY way MOVE physical things. To be seen it needs to be physical as well, otherwise there is NO way to reflect light.

And most of all, to interact with you, it would need a brain. No physical entity=no brain=no mind and thought.

And the physical part of what you call a ghost is long gone and buried. It is only buried bones, if anything at all.

So, lets put this to rest. Unless you have some kind of scientific facts that would make all this mumbojumbo possible?

WIND doesn't have Physical properties ( as in nothing solid there) yet it moves things around. You whole post is garbage because you are making tons of assumptions you cannot verify.

edit on 14-3-2014 by JohnPhoenix because: ap

Hahaha.. are you REALLY trying to tell me that GAS doesn`t have mass?

The very air you breathe is gas. and 78% of it is Nitrogen. Now, do you know what happens when you cool down nitrogen to -200 degrees C ? It condensates and turns into liquid. Below 210 degrees it freezes.. now.. if you saw frozen nitrogen, would you still think it didn`t have mass?

The only reason why wind moves things around is that it has mass, and energy derived from different kinds of pressure, for example by heating around the equator and cooling at the poles.

You can say that my post is garbage, but in reality I just made it clear that it`s your post that is garbage.
And the reason why you thought that my post was garbage was because you really aren`t educated/intelligent enough to understand it.

Have a nice evening!

reply to post by Gemwolf


I will answer you post when I have the time Gemwolf, but that isn`t gonna be today. Mostly due to the fact that it`s two pages long and the fact that today is Saturday. Time to be social...

I`m actually inclined to get to know you Gemwolf, you can thank Benjamin Franklin for that

reply to post by br0ker


I can't the video mainly b/c I don't know how & keep messing up.

Oskar JUST appeared from nowhere.

I have started a thread opposite of yours. With photos.

Thx for wishing me luck. Oskar IS indeed a malevolent Entity.

Ciao. Can't say with all honesty it's been real, or a pleasant or even interesting post in which YOU have more a lack of evidence than we do. We as in ALL who've been there.

br0ker

StormyStars
reply to post by br0ker

 

How about if you are going to open a can of worms like this, YOU give ALL of US Scientific proof that Ghosts do NOT exist?

That`s a creepy story you have there mr StormyStars. It`s pretty hard proving that something that doesn`t exist, in fact doesn`t exist.

It`s the same as me asking you to prove to me that flying cows don`t exist.
How would you go ahead proving that they don`t?
Because I`m pretty sure you agree that flying cows don`t exist.


Now, May I ask you a couple of questions?

Because Br0ken, when when WE do our SCIENTIFIC tests to find out, we are NOT ALLOWED to KEEP the TRUE evidence that Ghosts DO indeed EXIST for we do so in groups.

When you say "WE" in this manner, who are you talking about and what is your line of work?

I've been attempting to open a thread to SHOW that Ghosts DO EXIST. One video which I can't seem to cut but is 4 hours long just for 3 sightings in the Audio Visual throughout the span of 4 hours. Who wants to watch a whole 4 hours for 3, 3 to 5 minute of Ghost activity? I also have 3 photos of Ghosts.

Wow, a video that can`t be cut? If it can be played, then it can be cut.
But since you`re not able to do that, why haven`t you just played it on your screen and put a tape recorder, cellphone, or camera to record it from the screen?

A particular Entity that my late Parents afterward, told me, was with me from birth but thought he'd stopped, revealed himself, in front of 5 highly trained, highly experienced Neurologists, Neurological interns, Nurses, etc, ALL witnessed & have on fuzzy film recording, the Entity I always called Oskar, smash a plexi glassed wall to get to me.

He smashed a plexyglass wall to get to you? How did he get there in the first place, did he walk through the building opening all the doors? Or did he actually just appear there?
I guess he opened the doors like all the rest huh?
Or else he wouldn`t have to smash the plexiglass wall to get to you.

Thnx for the star and flag, and good luck with Oskar. He sounds pretty harsh..

IMHO - your best response in the entire thread...if English is your second language, "Snark"' must be your first.

On-topic -

I believe. In the spirit world. With all my heart. I've had too many experiences not to believe. I can't hand over any scientific data or break down the physics for you...I could relate my stories, but frankly they are precious to me - I will save them for a different thread and a different day, cause this one got a little too "...hey, what about the ghosts?" for me.

By the way, you are funny...but what do I know, being the new kid in class and all?

"Science" Is Discovering New Things EVERYDAY! Just Because They Can't Explain It Today Don't Mean They Won't Be Able To Tomorrow. There Was A Point In Time When GOING IN TO SPACE, Was A Complete Fantasy & It Sooner Because Possible And Very Reasonable. So Don't Be To Sure About Ya Self There Bud

StormyStars
reply to post by br0ker

 

I can't the video mainly b/c I don't know how & keep messing up.

Oskar JUST appeared from nowhere.

I have started a thread opposite of yours. With photos.

Thx for wishing me luck. Oskar IS indeed a malevolent Entity.

Ciao. Can't say with all honesty it's been real, or a pleasant or even interesting post in which YOU have more a lack of evidence than we do. We as in ALL who've been there.

Really, you can't make a recording of your solid evidence video of a ghost with a regular camera? You know how to use the internet but not a cellphone or camera? Wow...

You never answered why the ghost had to shatter a plexiglass wall to get to you, when all he really had to do was to appear there..

If anyone can scientifically prove that system coherence and structural predictability is based on something that can be pointed to as materially present (particles, bosons, fermions, manifestations of energy, etc), then I'll accept the notion that only material existence is physically existent. If not (and the truth is that it has never been done) then the definition of physical existence extends beyond what can be scientifically measured or observed. What's more is that there is no reasonable or responsible means of determining exactly how much beyond (what can be scientifically measured or observed) the factual definition of physical existence extends.

Anyone who actually believes that they can accurately determine the existential parameters of physical reality via scientific methodologies is an idiot. Seriously. They can't even define what gravity is or explain what it actually has to do with mass, and they've been working on that bitch for centuries. Human consciousness is so far beyond gravity in sheer complexity and nuance that it doesn't even make sense to compare them to one another. And yet, they have one thing in common...both will never be understood by the knuckle-dragging methodologies of empirical science.