Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

TritonTaranis

ninjadan9
What if the invaders in Crimea were actually Crimean separatists with military equipment provided by the Russians? This would change the story BIG TIME!

They are

Russian troops have began enrolling Russian speaking ethnics in the Crimea into a Crimean militia in Russian uniform they're currently helping guard check points and installations

That would be bad they dont have the discipline of russian troops and i could see them shooting someone.

dragonridr

TritonTaranis

ninjadan9
What if the invaders in Crimea were actually Crimean separatists with military equipment provided by the Russians? This would change the story BIG TIME!

They are

Russian troops have began enrolling Russian speaking ethnics in the Crimea into a Crimean militia in Russian uniform they're currently helping guard check points and installations

That would be bad they dont have the discipline of russian troops and i could see them shooting someone.

They appear to be the ones with the bad attitude ripping and pushing cameras out of the reporters hands and verbally attacking them

It also wouldn't surprise me if some of these people are plane closed troops mingling in with the crowds for propaganda purposes

It's certainly a mystery why civilians would get so involved and angry with reporters doing there jobs and the press covering activity and movements of Russian Troops in the Crimea, of course the Russian government and the army doest want to be spied on and questioned but also for the sake of world condemnation and propaganda would want to be seen in a good manor

It wreaks of staged

We see people who are not know I. Certain areas come to reporters and say the pro west activists we're carrying machine guns and taking drugs threatening us and a group of locals out her as a liar

The Crimea is clearly flooded with Russian agents trying to influence the break up of a sovereign country illegally

Outrageous and desperate behaviour indeed

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Sorry poor bunny, have to disagree here. This tantrum Putin is throwing is due directly to his poor economy. The last thing he can afford is an Ukraine on the much stronger Euro. Ukraine would become the stronger of the two in terms of trade and Ukraine would no longer need Russian "discounts" on gas. I will give you that Europe and the US by extension are not in the best economic situation. But they are still in a position to level sanctions and come out from it in far better shape than an isolated and isolationist Russia.

reply to post by TritonTaranis


Your right if some russian soldier does something to invoke violence now they have someone to blame. Didnt think about that so this is just another way to say look those aren't russian troops.

AliceBleachWhite

This is a bit scary, however, Pravda as a source, being that Pravda isn't renown for its honest and unbiased reporting, leaves me wondering if this just propaganda and saber rattling coming out of the Russian language media.

Checking other alternative sources ...

I sure hope so. I doubt global conflict will come from this, but it's a really great way to create unrest in an area already unstable.
Not good.

US will not be at Sochi for G8 Summit @reuters

KingJod
US will not be at Sochi for G8 Summit @reuters

This will be G7 summit very soon.

reply to post by KeliOnyx


Numbers are numbers and I love the simplicity of math. At least, I normally do. In this case, the math sucks from where I sit. I liked it much better when it was reversed. I think some folks just don't quite understand the position Putin has spent over a decade getting Russia to. It's really pretty incredible given where they began in 1999. I just wish it wasn't adversarial as it seems it has to be.

World Debt Figures

Russia's Debt to GDP was 8.1% when that snapshot of numbers was taken. The US was 81%. Our per person debt load was between $40 and $50,000 US dollars per person. Europe's, between $30-$40,000 per person while Russia's is under $1,500.

They learned about the toxic nature of debt, as we've embraced it. Now we're in quite a pickle if he wants to push because it's our position so badly over extended we can't even see positive numbers from here.

Money isnt tangible. Debt or no debt, in the end it doesnt matter.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by KeliOnyx

 

Numbers are numbers and I love the simplicity of math. At least, I normally do. In this case, the math sucks from where I sit. I liked it much better when it was reversed. I think some folks just don't quite understand the position Putin has spent over a decade getting Russia to. It's really pretty incredible given where they began in 1999. I just wish it wasn't adversarial as it seems it has to be.

World Debt Figures

Russia's Debt to GDP was 8.1% when that snapshot of numbers was taken. The US was 81%. Our per person debt load was between $40 and $50,000 US dollars per person. Europe's, between $30-$40,000 per person while Russia's is under $1,500.

They learned about the toxic nature of debt, as we've embraced it. Now we're in quite a pickle if he wants to push because it's our position so badly over extended we can't even see positive numbers from here.

xavi1000

KingJod
US will not be at Sochi for G8 Summit @reuters

This will be G7 summit very soon.

Actually its going to be the g1 summit since Putin said hell just holdthe meeting without the US. Dont think Germany, france the UK and Italy will go Meaning Canada and Japan probably wont go it would be worth there time. Putin doesnt realize the affects this will have on Russia in the long run. They lost an opportunity to help shape world economies even China would kill for. Whow knows maybe China can step up theirs an opening.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by KeliOnyx

 

Numbers are numbers and I love the simplicity of math. At least, I normally do. In this case, the math sucks from where I sit. I liked it much better when it was reversed. I think some folks just don't quite understand the position Putin has spent over a decade getting Russia to. It's really pretty incredible given where they began in 1999. I just wish it wasn't adversarial as it seems it has to be.

World Debt Figures

Russia's Debt to GDP was 8.1% when that snapshot of numbers was taken. The US was 81%. Our per person debt load was between $40 and $50,000 US dollars per person. Europe's, between $30-$40,000 per person while Russia's is under $1,500.

They learned about the toxic nature of debt, as we've embraced it. Now we're in quite a pickle if he wants to push because it's our position so badly over extended we can't even see positive numbers from here.

Thats not Russias only debt so the numbers are a bit decieving there system is an oligarchy meaning there is Russians billionaires so tied into the government as to be indistinguishable most former KGB no surprise there huh?. And they borrowed alot and there net worth is in stocks. As these stocks fall which there doing know the debt to income ratio goes way up. these oligarchs will be screaming for his head soon as companies have to shut there doors and there net worth is pennies on the dollar. See when the soviet Union fell they parceled out all the government businesses. Even defense is a buch of private contractors. Same with there space program thats why people can buy rides into space. So saying they have a low debt ratio isnt entirely accurate.

TritonTaranis

pheonix358

xavi1000
The best way to handle an angry person like Putin is to simply turn on him and walk away, refusing to listen to his ranting. Words are not the solution to the nutty things a man says; firm, quiet, reasoned-out actions are. Reacting in anger to an angry person doesn't work. Watchful waiting and firmness do. If Western leaders act quietly, firmly and without wavering, this situation can be frozen at the point it is now and kept from spreading further. Now is the time to decide how to handle this , not when his next grab for power takes place. Putin has revealed his paranoia. When dealing with a paranoid person, one must 'talk him down' carefully, but always know he is essentially a loose cannon -- and always will be.

Putin is not the loose cannon here. You may like to look closer to home to find your loose cannon, in fact lots and lots of loose cannons. Start with the big white house in DC and spread out from there. McCain is a loose cannon, rusty too.

P

Yeah you're absolutely right.. Putin isn't a loose cannon here at all the world is on drugs and a bunch of liars

Thank you and I agree with you 100% on this single post of yours.

Putin is not a loose cannon.

The world is on drugs, yep, although you may put the US on top of that list, they have more people in jail for drugs than anyon else.

Bunch of liars, I assume you are talking of politicians and the media they own or control. Yes I agree although it is a bit like stating the bleeding obvious now, isn't it.

Never never thought I would see the day that we would agree on something. I am impressed!

P

reply to post by dragonridr


No argument there and what you're saying actually goes to the heart of what another big part of this is about. Gas and Oil aren't just economically helpful to Russia, they are strategic resources for hard currency and unpinning of their economy.

The Bureau of Investigative Journalism's Maeve McClenaghan talks to a Russian political analyst who says that Putin owns shares in three major oil and gas companies: 4.5% of Gazprom, 37% of oil supplier Surgutneftegas and up to 75% of oil trader Gunvor.

The analyst, Stanislav Belkovsky, says the Russian president could be worth up to $70 billion.

Source

There are a few sources that use similar logic of his personal interests in Gas and Oil to arrive at similar figures. It's pretty staggering when looked at that way, and Ukraine is critical with existing infrastrcture to a good part of the flow represented in all that. It's crossing in massive main lines to the rest of Europe.

Gazprom, which controls nearly one-fifth of the world's gas reserves and supplies more than half of the gas Ukraine uses each year, insisted the threatened price rise merely reflected cash-strapped Ukraine's inability to meet its contractual obligations. The state-owned company said that Kiev owes it $1.55bn for gas supplied in 2013 and so far in 2014, and shows little evidence of paying up. But this is not the first time Russia has used gas exports to put pressure on its neighbour – and "gas wars" between the two countries tend to be felt far beyond their borders. Russia, after all, still supplies around 30% of Europe's gas.

Source (Emphasis Added)

Whew... Talk about being behind on a gas bill.

It's always about the money somewhere...and seemingly..pipelines and energy and...Yikes. Here we go again I suppose. That's the feeling at times, to be sure.

reply to post by xavi1000

Some opinions from body-language experts of today press conference of Putin

These quotes are laughable.

Putin came up through the ranks of the KGB. He has the skill set to portray any body language he so desires. He does not often make mistakes. Whatever these experts think they see is because Putin wants them to see it.

I do not think much of these experts. If they have such expertise then the first thing to look for is "Has this person the training to snow me?" Answer - Yes he does!

When will the media stop spewing this damn garbage. This is just fluff, like pink slime in a hamburger, useless and disgusting.

P

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Exactly why i said earlier on the thread expect gas prices to drop. I see were on the same page so to speak. Putin just made a mistake and its going to cost him dearly. Here will be the US plan or at least what i would do and Russia finished. First complete the keystone pipeline bringing oil from Canada this will lower oil prices. then attack there gas prices this is easy as well the US sits on the largest gas supply in the world what they need to do is open stations in Europe supplying american gas to Europe this will effectively remove there dependence on Russia. Within 10 years Russians wouldnt be able to pay to keep a light bulb going in the Kremlin. But this hadnt been done because no one wanted to crash the Russian economy. But now Putins making alot of enemies so i know if i thought of this someone else already had this planned if Putin acted up im sure.

reply to post by dragonridr


I know the realities and the numbers here. I don't know motives or intentions beyond what that suggests. The United States and Russian Intelligence infrastructures are or have been recently enough for this, the best in the world for propaganda. Truth always goes down first in conflict and in this? Truth may have taken that dive months ago by hindsight of statements. All guess work..

Ask me in a week or two when things have held stable for that length of time and I'll feel a whole lot better about where intentions are for how far any of this may go.

Right now, I'm not making assumptions toward either side, when I doubt we're seeing or can even guess and be accurate for a good % of what is tied up in what we're seeing. Sevastopol and the Gas/Oil mains into Europe are obvious...but so much more lay in Old Europe/Russia. I don't pretend to know the elements well enough to predict them in this.

pheonix358
reply to post by xavi1000

 

Whatever these experts think they see is because Putin wants them to see it.

That's because Putin is a Complex Bio-Robot

reply to post by dragonridr


You really don't want to do all of that. Gas is a nonrenewable resource that you just don't want to go hogwild selling or you end up in the same position Russia is in. An economy that is so dependent on sales that once it is gone it collapses. Until affordable and feasible alternatives start making their way into the market that would be a horrible idea.

Whew!!! Page 100 and something already? Wow, I've been away since yesterday last time i checked in, we were on page 79. What's going on? I tried reading to catch up...but it seems I've really been missing out on some great conversations.

Last I heard was something about Putin giving a Q&A to reporters earlier. Am I right? No news...no nothing for me since early yesterday.

So what's going on and where's asen_y2k? Any news from him? Anyone seen him around here lately?

Take Care Everyone 👍

www.nytimes.com...

The prime minister of Crimea, the autonomous Ukrainian republic seized by Russian military forces, said Tuesday that most Ukrainian military units on the Crimean Peninsula had surrendered and pledged allegiance to his pro-Russian government