Just saw the proposed tax increases on the Middle Class, are they INSANE?!

reply to post by tehdouglas


That is not the figure for millionaires, where did you get that?

That is for the higher end of middle class.

My husband will be included in that figure and he's a civil servant, not even management, a cop for gods sake.

We will probably have to sell our house.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


If you live there, you can claim it as your home and not pay the 3.8 %. But ...If it's a rental house or form of income property then , yes, ...you do have to pay...anyone with income property is considered wealth in the eyes of Obama care and can afford to pay......pretty crappy, huh.

reply to post by Meldionne1

Well, yeah... it's real crappy. If I still had a home I inherited in California a couple years ago...It would absolutely have been sold anyway by Jan 1st. I didn't know all this for details but I sure would have made it a point to know if I'd still owned it for exposure to these new tax liabilities.

Personally, I don't know anyone right now in Middle or lower upper class that has SPARE money...I.E...money they can reprogram to new taxes..and not be badly hurt by it.

Of course, all the taxes to business and the "Rich" are being passed down to us in higher prices and higher service fees anyway. They always have been, without exception in the past. So I really get a little steamed at times hearing how it's 'just the rich' or 'just business' getting slammed. Umm.. Anyone really think they are going to absorb it and not pass it on? lol.. It's us little people that will pay every dime of all this in the end. It'll just be on shelf price, not IRS forms on most.

Yeah, welcome to the brave new world. Where all shall be equal. Equally broke and equally miserable. Yipee.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

I would tend to agree, the America people are ultimately responsible.

We keep re-electing the same fiscally irresponsible monsters.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos

I started to watch Freedom to Fascism (which I posted in the OP). Havent seen it in a while and man, my blood's boiling.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
yeah I don't know why you guys are all up in arms.

You never should have gotten a tax cut to begin with. If Regan had any common sense he'd have left the stuff where it was or made a MANDATORY removal of tax cuts. George should have done the same thing.

Now that people are comfortable not paying for anything the government has done, you all jump in the air when the time has come to do so.

America, you let your country slip into a financial disaster. It's time to fix it. That means ALL of you are going to be poor for a bit. Unless of course you simply ask the rich to reduce their wealth by about 20%, which to them is a drop in the ocean.

~Tenth

Are you folks paying attention? The taxes in your paycheck were reduced under Bush. They were supposed to be reinstated, and that was what is part of the so-called "fiscal cliff." You were paying this before, you will be paying it again. It's not something new. The economy has somewhat stabilized from what it was in 2008. It's time to pay up again. It's your civic duty. The only way out of it is to get government to reduce (choking, laughing) spending. While you are at it, make the population decrease, too.

Frankly, the rich have had a free ride for decades...it's time they paid the 70% and up taxes again. The middle class has almost disappeared, and the billionaires don't give a darn.

reply to post by Jim Scott


You live in cough, cough....California. Haven't learned yet?

Raising taxes on the rich raises the prices on everything you buy. It also causes companies to fire people.

What are people upset about?

The title is completely wrong....they aren't "proposed tax increases on the middle class." Those figures are only if Congress doesn't do anything.

Obama wants to only have the top 2% have their taxes raised, all of the rest, aka every single number in that chart you list, wouldn't have their taxes changed.


FFS, do you not have any clue about the debate that's been going on the past few weeks?
Do you really have no clue at all about the the main point of the "fiscal cliff"?

The ignorance in this thread is staggering.

reply to post by micmerci


gold has been priced out of everybody's reach.

most people don't have $1600 laying around to buy an ounce.

but when 9/11 happened, gold was at around $270 an ounce, or a little more than a price of a pair of jordan sneakers with tax.

most people could scrounge up $300 without breaking the bank.

is gold getting scarcer. i don't think so, gold production is at an all time high. keeping people poor is the more likely explanation, when the dollar tanks and takes all the currencies with it.

I love the class warfare going on here. 108,000 is a millionaire now? WTF?

I love how I can tell someone I make $50k a year and they act like i'm a freaking millionaire, like i'm made of money. Had a girlfriend at one point who I was expected to pay for everything for her. Uhm, does anyone realize what 50k divided by 2 is? It aint enough to work my butt off 80 hours a week for, like I do now...

This is why I don't talk to anyone anymore

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
yeah I don't know why you guys are all up in arms.

You never should have gotten a tax cut to begin with. If Regan had any common sense he'd have left the stuff where it was or made a MANDATORY removal of tax cuts. George should have done the same thing.

Now that people are comfortable not paying for anything the government has done, you all jump in the air when the time has come to do so.

America, you let your country slip into a financial disaster. It's time to fix it. That means ALL of you are going to be poor for a bit. Unless of course you simply ask the rich to reduce their wealth by about 20%, which to them is a drop in the ocean.

~Tenth

agreed, The american people have been getting a free ride for so long that they don`t understand why they have to start paying for all that neat stuff that the country has been getting for free for so long.
It`s time to pay the piper, nothing is free in this world, it`s time to start paying for all that neat high tech military garbage and Obama phones.
If those few extra dollars a day in additional taxes is going to bankrupt you then only buy 2 big macs instead of 4.

Exactly what free stuff have I ever gotten?

reply to post by tehdouglas

Also I agree with the guy who said that all the US currency in the world couldnt pay off the debt because of our Keynesian, Fractional Reserve Banking economy. But the one point where I dont agree, even with Ron Paul, whom I admire, is that changing back to a gold standard will save us. Im pretty sure the people in power have most of the gold. It would have to be done differently, but i dont know how. It just seems like a bad solution to just go back to gold when the average joe has none whereas the bankers and corporations have a ton. But Yeah of course I agree we need something to change.

Changing back to a gold standard has it's own problems for our government considering that for every ounce of gold that's been sold, only 25% of it really exists. When people start to realize that their paper gold certificates are nothing more than a piece of paper, well, you can imagine what's going to happen.

reply to post by Jim Scott

Are you folks paying attention? The taxes in your paycheck were reduced under Bush. They were supposed to be reinstated, and that was what is part of the so-called "fiscal cliff." You were paying this before, you will be paying it again. It's not something new. The economy has somewhat stabilized from what it was in 2008. It's time to pay up again.

The economy hasn't stabilized enough and we're on the edge of another collapse come 2013/2014. So, no, now is not the right time to reinstate the taxes and our government knows it. Anyone who's done their homework should know it too.

Originally posted by Ghost375
What are people upset about?

The title is completely wrong....they aren't "proposed tax increases on the middle class." Those figures are only if Congress doesn't do anything.

Obama wants to only have the top 2% have their taxes raised, all of the rest, aka every single number in that chart you list, wouldn't have their taxes changed.


FFS, do you not have any clue about the debate that's been going on the past few weeks?
Do you really have no clue at all about the the main point of the "fiscal cliff"?

The ignorance in this thread is staggering.

edit on 8-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

You must have missed Jay Carney's quote the other day where he said the Obama administration was fully prepared to go over the fiscal cliff.

If you've paid any attention to the "talks", you would know that Obama and Boehner have only spoken by phone in the last week.

Obama refuses to talk about ANYTHING in the budget until after Boehner agrees to the tax increase on the top 2%.

Both sides are seriously considering letting it go over the cliff. That's why there has been a stalemate over the last three weeks.

reply to post by Deetermined

Add to that, the fact there are multiple, independent factors behind the January issues and it becomes a real mess. The President and Congress are only even working on a portion of what they've helped create for the perfect storm.

You know the worst part? The CBO has clearly stated that even a 100% solution and perfect elimination of the cliff....just sets up a new one. To solve this will necessarily add a half trillion or more to the deficit.....this is on top of the 480 billion of QE-3...ON TOP of what has previously existed (1-1.5 trillion a year since 2009). I mean debt? We're off the charts as we go into the future, even if this is solved.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by Djayed
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

I wish I made $108,000 to pay an extra 14k on. This is the reason you have tax deductions to lower that amount. Stop complaining and be thankful for what you got.

Most of the country make under 52k per household, so I wouldn't say making over 100k is middle class.

edit on 12/7/2012 by Djayed because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/7/2012 by Djayed because: (no reason given)

That rather depends on where you live. $100,000 in this part of Missouri would be living with true wealth. Lower end...but wealth just the same. Living in New York City? I'd call $100,000 the Middle Class...maybe lower Middle. Same with Los Angeles Proper or even Obama's home town.. Chicago...if you're outside South Chicago and the ghettos.

Saying $100,000 makes someone rich shows only one thing....How far the person using that number has ever been from even knowing middle class.

Well that is incorrect too, my spouse was making $75,000 a year before being laid off, and with my salary, we made well well over $100K. Now it has been 4 years since then, our life style has completely changed and I would gladly accept the larger taxes to be making that amount.

Now, statistically speaking $100,000 is not Middle class! If you live in New York or California $100,000 is not rich, but it is not middle class. Sorry people....go look up income statistics, poverty statistics. We have more family of 4's living in poverty than not...complaining about higher taxes that should have never been implemented in the first place doesn't help..

reply to post by gladtobehere

These are INCREASES, NOT the total taxes. Have they lost their minds? They expect people to pay these amounts IN ADDITION to whats already being extorted from us???

These were the Bush tax "cuts" that the propaganda media was hyping?

If you earn over $108k, youll have to pay $14k MORE, MORE!!!!!!

Yes that is what happens in socialism. The rich get poorer but the poor get poorer as well. People living at poverty level are going to be even worse off.

You should watch Obama's "Dreams from my REAL father" (who is Frank Marshall). The CPA (Communist Party of America) managed to get in the Oval Office, not just 4 years but for 4 more. Imagine what America is gonna look like in 2016. Hear of the Great Depression where people were living in Shanty Towns and tent cities made of tents and Lean-To's? Yeah that's what we're heading towards. I'm already living on cheese toast and tomato soup, and it's gonna get worse. Alot worse.

Originally posted by Djayed

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by Djayed
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

I wish I made $108,000 to pay an extra 14k on. This is the reason you have tax deductions to lower that amount. Stop complaining and be thankful for what you got.

Most of the country make under 52k per household, so I wouldn't say making over 100k is middle class.

edit on 12/7/2012 by Djayed because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/7/2012 by Djayed because: (no reason given)

That rather depends on where you live. $100,000 in this part of Missouri would be living with true wealth. Lower end...but wealth just the same. Living in New York City? I'd call $100,000 the Middle Class...maybe lower Middle. Same with Los Angeles Proper or even Obama's home town.. Chicago...if you're outside South Chicago and the ghettos.

Saying $100,000 makes someone rich shows only one thing....How far the person using that number has ever been from even knowing middle class.

Well that is incorrect too, my spouse was making $75,000 a year before being laid off, and with my salary, we made well well over $100K. Now it has been 4 years since then, our life style has completely changed and I would gladly accept the larger taxes to be making that amount.

Now, statistically speaking $100,000 is not Middle class! If you live in New York or California $100,000 is not rich, but it is not middle class. Sorry people....go look up income statistics, poverty statistics. We have more family of 4's living in poverty than not...complaining about higher taxes that should have never been implemented in the first place doesn't help..

edit on 12/8/2012 by Djayed because: (no reason given)

Okay, I'll figure you're being sincere in your arguments here. However, I'm not just pulling things out of thin air and making totally subjective guesstimates to come up with my assessments of Middle Class status in different areas. For many, this map may be something new......but take a hard look at it in context to a $100,000 a year income.

Cost of Living - Rent Costs in New York City

Now, when you are looking at $25,000 to $30,000 per year in JUST the basic cost to keep a rent contract? I.E... We're not into utilities and all the other basic costs to just live yet..that is just the landlord check....I'd say $100,000 goes a whole lot faster than people would like to imagine it does. As the map at the bottom of that page shows..unbelievably...NYC isn't even the highest. San Fransisco is worse.

So indeed, I would say the value and meaning of a $100,000 lump of cash is very dependent on where one is living while holding it. If over 25% of my income is gone for the roof alone? I'm feeling VERY middle class at that income level, personally.

Originally posted by Tardacus
agreed, The american people have been getting a free ride for so long that they don`t understand why they have to start paying for all that neat stuff that the country has been getting for free for so long.
It`s time to pay the piper, nothing is free in this world, it`s time to start paying for all that neat high tech military garbage and Obama phones.
If those few extra dollars a day in additional taxes is going to bankrupt you then only buy 2 big macs instead of 4.

Right, because Washington can be trusted with any additional money. It simply does not matter how much they collect, they will always spend more! The spending must be stopped, the outlandish growth of Government must be reined in. The Washington D.C. greater area has never felt recession, only explosive growth and out-sized pay and benefits for all. It beggers belief that any taxpayer, Democrat or Republican would willingly encourage this.