Who Produces Chemtrail Chemicals?

So when I look up,
I see an industry,
that cannot meet current emission standards,
and politicians that allow it,
regardless of side effects,
anyone that points this out,
will be classified as a chemtrailer
mocked and laughed at.

I found a strange chemtrail plane on Google Earth. It has some strange colors around it. Possibly just an anomaly of the digitization of the Satellite Photographs.
The Coordinates are:
LATITUDE 43deg, 45', 39.78"
LONGITUDE: 109deg, 55' 34.78"

So the OP question was,

Who makes these chemicals?
My response anyone that plans to supply fuel to any industry that operates engines
at, sub zero temperatures.
And needs to prevent stalling during operation of engines at those temperatures.

Are these chemicals hazardous to humans?
Lets read the label,
see what it says.

reply to post by lonegurkha


Au contraire, I completely get what you are saying, but for that to work would require nobody else to ever check the fuel, so it fails UNLESS you are saying that the fuel has always had these additives in ever since the Comet first carried passengers in 1952.

Even the chemmies aren't claiming that.

But then, neither are you as you wrote about someone flicking a switch to add the required amount of whatever it is, this would mean there is something different going into it, that certain operators have fuel mixed to their own recipe, if that happened it would be found either in the fuel, or in the tanks, or in the nozzles when they are all tested daily,or didn't you read the document linked?

So there is no need to get all superior about it.

reply to post by waynos


And because you know exactly what the chemical is, you are absolutely certian that the test performed would pick it up. Clearly you know about chemical testing and how it works. WOW look an expert, how many of these tests have you performed to be so confident that the tests will pick up anything.Come back and talk when you learn something. In the mean time I have no time for fools.

reply to post by lonegurkha


Your attempts to deflect me off topic by calling me a fool are as weak as your argument. As an adult discourse on the topic is beyond your ability I will leave you to cherish your delusion.

Farewell.

reply to post by lonegurkha


what utter twaddle - you simply cannot have an " unknown / secret " line feeding into the jetfuel lines

and if you did have any experience of chemical process plant - you would realise how insaine your claims are

so - yes - i am calling you a liar

Chemtrails are sprayed by BigBrothers for weather manipulation . Aluminium , Barium are sprayed into the air .It is produced in big metal factories .

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by lonegurkha

 

what utter twaddle - you simply cannot have an " unknown / secret " line feeding into the jetfuel lines

and if you did have any experience of chemical process plant - you would realise how insaine your claims are

so - yes - i am calling you a liar

I never said that,had you reading comprehension you would know that. Your screen name is appropriate.

reply to post by lonegurkha

Anything could be added to the fuel right in the tank. The lines come from all over the plant to the tanks. It would be quite simple to put something into the fuel and no one would ever know.

followed by

The operator may not even know what the stuff he adds will do. He gets a piece of paper that tells him what to add and how much

liar

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Yeah at the refinery, so what's your point.Your post makes no sense. Let me know when you understand what I said. In the mean time .....see ya

reply to post by lonegurkha


oh dear - walt is back-peddling

bottom line - you lied - you fabricated a fantasy about refineries and chemoical plants and your alledged " experience " - and hoped no one would question it

well - tough crap - i challenge your fantasy

and have several questions

how is your fantasy " chemtrail addative " delivered to the refinery ?

how is it addmitted - pumped to a holding tank - assayed - and then added to jet fuel with out any one knowing

who maintains the pumps / tanks / pipelines / valves / mixers - that introduce your " chemtrail addative " to jet fuel " without anyone knowing "

how does the entire infrastructure of the " chemtrail addative " handling line stay off the fire saftey plan , the general maintainence plan , the site layout schematic etc etc - as " now one knows about it "

why doesnt the airlines indeoendent assay of fuel supplied notice that " chemtrail addative " is present - when its not on the fuel spec sheet ?

i note you have already runaway from basic queries - your response if any to this postr should provide hilarity

Regardless of who produces it, whatever they are spraying will be found in ice (and ocean mud) cores.

Find it. Then work back. Easy.

If it's not there, then just possibly hundreds of thousands of scientists over the past 80 years are right and a handful of conspiracy geeks are wrong. But it's easy to prove.

reply to post by synapsis

.It is produced in big metal factories .

Just wondering where these big metal factories are located, in the US or are they worldwide?

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by lonegurkha

 

oh dear - walt is back-peddling

bottom line - you lied - you fabricated a fantasy about refineries and chemoical plants and your alledged " experience " - and hoped no one would question it

well - tough crap - i challenge your fantasy

and have several questions

how is your fantasy " chemtrail addative " delivered to the refinery ?

how is it addmitted - pumped to a holding tank - assayed - and then added to jet fuel with out any one knowing

who maintains the pumps / tanks / pipelines / valves / mixers - that introduce your " chemtrail addative " to jet fuel " without anyone knowing "

how does the entire infrastructure of the " chemtrail addative " handling line stay off the fire saftey plan , the general maintainence plan , the site layout schematic etc etc - as " now one knows about it "

why doesnt the airlines indeoendent assay of fuel supplied notice that " chemtrail addative " is present - when its not on the fuel spec sheet ?

i note you have already runaway from basic queries - your response if any to this postr should provide hilarity

I never backpeddled at any point. I stated quite clearly that the chemicals are made at the refinery,there is no need for any delivery.I offered a hypothetical way that chemicals could be added, I never said that I believed in chemtrails ,in fact I said at least twice that I'm not sure. Perhaps a little research on how refineries and chemical plants operate would help you understand the simple scenario I offered as a hypothetical example. I already know that you won't, knowledge is not your thing now is it.

Frankly I don't care if you believe me or not, as it is very plain that your mind is closed so tightly to reality that you truely live in the land of Oz . The fact that you have no spelling or grammer skills tells me all I need to know about you. Attack me and call me names all you want. It just demonstrates that I have already won the discussion. Since that's all you've got.

I also don't care if you believe me about my 20 years of experience in the chemical industry. The fact that I have it and offered a possible scenario for the addition of chemicals to fuel,which you do not believe, I could care less about. You don't matter to me at all.

Please continue to believe people who know nothing about chemical processing. Continue to believe that testing is so very difficult to get around. The government is on your side, they have your best interests at heart as do the corporations. They are on your side and would never do anything to harm you. Please remain in the world where you live. I'm going back to reality where I live, enjoy Oz I hear they eat sheep there.

Originally posted by lonegurkha

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by lonegurkha

 

oh dear - walt is back-peddling

bottom line - you lied - you fabricated a fantasy about refineries and chemoical plants and your alledged " experience " - and hoped no one would question it

well - tough crap - i challenge your fantasy

and have several questions

how is your fantasy " chemtrail addative " delivered to the refinery ?

how is it addmitted - pumped to a holding tank - assayed - and then added to jet fuel with out any one knowing

who maintains the pumps / tanks / pipelines / valves / mixers - that introduce your " chemtrail addative " to jet fuel " without anyone knowing "

how does the entire infrastructure of the " chemtrail addative " handling line stay off the fire saftey plan , the general maintainence plan , the site layout schematic etc etc - as " now one knows about it "

why doesnt the airlines indeoendent assay of fuel supplied notice that " chemtrail addative " is present - when its not on the fuel spec sheet ?

i note you have already runaway from basic queries - your response if any to this postr should provide hilarity

I never backpeddled at any point. I stated quite clearly that the chemicals are made at the refinery,there is no need for any delivery.I offered a hypothetical way that chemicals could be added, I never said that I believed in chemtrails ,in fact I said at least twice that I'm not sure. Perhaps a little research on how refineries and chemical plants operate would help you understand the simple scenario I offered as a hypothetical example. I already know that you won't, knowledge is not your thing now is it.

Frankly I don't care if you believe me or not, as it is very plain that your mind is closed so tightly to reality that you truely live in the land of Oz . The fact that you have no spelling or grammer skills tells me all I need to know about you. Attack me and call me names all you want. It just demonstrates that I have already won the discussion. Since that's all you've got.

I also don't care if you believe me about my 20 years of experience in the chemical industry. The fact that I have it and offered a possible scenario for the addition of chemicals to fuel,which you do not believe, I could care less about. You don't matter to me at all.

Please continue to believe people who know nothing about chemical processing. Continue to believe that testing is so very difficult to get around. The government is on your side, they have your best interests at heart as do the corporations. They are on your side and would never do anything to harm you. Please remain in the world where you live. I'm going back to reality where I live, enjoy Oz I hear they eat sheep there.

edit on 10/2/2012 by lonegurkha because: (no reason given)

Well, thank you for offering a scenario.

Unfortunately, in the end, it would not work. As I said before, testing is not only done at the site of the manufacture, but also at location where the fuel is delivered. In order for this hypothetical additive to make it through to the planes unnoticed in that manner, there would have to be an alteration to the already known chemical makeup of the fuel. If this was something that was not already widely known and distributed, it could be plausible. But I'm sure you recognize the fact that a chance to jet fuel at this point would actually be a big deal, and not something that could be kept under wraps.

Originally posted by spoonbender
reply to post by samkent

 

I work @ a major international airport.
The only trucks that hook up to aircraft
are Fuel trucks[pump trucks]

Fuel is piped underground from the fuel farm
to quick couplers in each aircraft envelope.

There the truck hooks up to the coupler and aircraft
and fueling takes place.

Never seen any other tankers around commercial liners

So, you're saying they mix it into the fuel before they deliver it to the airport? I guess that is a pretty clever technique.

reply to post by lonegurkha

I stated quite clearly that the chemicals are made at the refinery,there is no need for any delivery.

so it [ chemtrail mix ] is made soley from crude-oil stock is it ?

I offered a hypothetical way that chemicals could be added,

no - you spun a fantasy that bears no semblence to how a real refinery operates

. The fact that you have no spelling or grammer skills tells me all I need to know about you.

my spelling / grammar tells you nothing relevant about me - PS re read your own post for the irony of your claim

Attack me and call me names all you want. It just demonstrates that I have already won the discussion. Since that's all you've got.

i have neither attacked you or called you names - again ironically - thats your MO

however you are incapable of answering basic questions about your fantasy - such as the ones in my last post

PS - now you are claiming that " chemtrails " are some ingredient made soley from crude-oil stock ?? - as you state " no delivery is nessecary " - so that rules out aluminium and barium as components of "chemtrails" does it ?

if you actually attempt to answer the questions instead of ignoring them - it may dawn on you - that i know more about process engineering than you

. Continue to believe that testing is so very difficult to get around.

how do you " get around " independant testing by the airlines , engine manufactures and airframe manufactures ???

for a topic you ` do not believe in ` - you are awefull strident - but sadly lacking in any substance - one would hope that a claimed chemical engineer would have a grasp of chemistry - and be able to explain what these " chemicals " are - and how they achieve the magical results of " chemtrails "

but sadly - you dont seem to be that person - ho hum another " chemtrails " thread that offers nothing but handwaving

reply to post by lonegurkha


Yes *at the refinery*. We know, but when I talked about the subsequent testing at the airport and on the aircraft, linking to the guideline, you seem to think they wouldn't know that the fuel was different from the standard set down for all operators, which is nonsense.

They way you whined about being attacked and called names is supremely ironic as you are the first and only person in the thread to actually do that, this I feel at least casts some doubt that you are even old enough to have 20 years experience of breathing, as you seem too immature in your posts.

Also, bit of friendly advice. One doesn't 'win' a discussion, it is an exchange. If you are going to set yourself up by entering smug mode and start attacking other people's spelling and grammar, don't mess it up by misspelling the word 'grammar' and getting the phrase 'couldn't care less' wrong. It makes you look a tit, and an undereducated tit at that.

Originally posted by Rudy2shoes
I have read many a time on here how you explain the jet engines consume a chemical called H2O,
and it comes out the back,
compressed as Ice Crystals/Cirrus Clouds.

I guess you didn't really understand what was being said then. H20 is present in the exhaust of a jet engine, but not because it is 'consumed' (inevitably, some ambient H2O will be ingested, but that's irrelevant to this discussion), as the H2O is a by product of the combustion of kerosene. A simple chemical reaction equation can explain this.
kerosene+oxygen ---> carbon dioxide and water.
You could also do a balanced chemical reaction of one of the main constituents of kerosene, dodecane.
2C12H26 + 37O2 ---> 24CO2 + 26H2O

This observation does not in any way indicate that you can simply add any chemical to jet fuel without consequence, as you seem to be implying. If there is water in the fuel, it can have disastrous consequences. Fuel tanks are always checked to ensure they don't contain water, so using water as an example of being able to add chemicals to jet fuel is rather erroneous.

Originally posted by Rudy2shoes
show me pictures of ice crystals coming out the exhaust of cars.

How about a video?

I know that ice fog has already been explained to you before, so it's astounding that you seem to imply it doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Rudy2shoes
And ice crystals would be abrasive, and injure humans at ground level

Then how do you explain all the people who live in areas that have ice fog, or even snow? Do they need protection from ice crystals? I guess you don't live in a very cold area, otherwise you wouldn't make such ignorant comments. The people who do these kinds of experiments hardly look injured because of it.

Originally posted by Rudy2shoes
So on cars any climate that could cause ice,
to be emitted from the exhaust,
is impossible,

It clearly is not impossible, even if you decide to ignore any evidence presented to you which says otherwise.

Originally posted by Rudy2shoes
as the intake would freeze over and stall engine under the same conditions.
The only way cars can prevent this,
is to add chemicals to the fuel,

Gasoline has a freezing point well below that of water, and does not need chemicals to be added in below freezing conditions. It is possible for ice to affect the engine performance, particularly for carburetted vehicles, but this does not require a fuel additive. Sometimes jet aircraft can approach the gel point for their fuels, but this can be overcome by fuel heating alone, without requiring chemical additives. Of course, fuel additives exist (especially for diesel vehicles), but that does not mean they're always required.

Originally posted by Rudy2shoes
So when they brag about their new air bypass engines on modern aircraft,
what they are saying is we were unable to meet EPA standards,
so we are mixing air with exhaust to make emissions, appear and measure lower.
Just like cars with air pumps in the past.

Your factual inaccuracies are evident yet again. A turbofan engine is not at all the same as a car with an air pump. An air pump in a car does not provide any additional power to the car whatsoever, yet the bypass air on a turbofan provides the bulk of the thrust that the engine produces. The use of high bypass turbofans has nothing to do with being unable to meet air standards, but increased thrust and thermal efficiency of the engine, meaning they burn less fuel.

Originally posted by Rudy2shoes
And what is the side effects?
More contrails, same pollution, less sunlight, you can add to the list.

You're correct on the more contrails part, but wrong on the "same pollution" part. A high bypass turbofan produces much less pollution compared to a similar thrust turbojet engine, which is why they're increasingly being used. I would encourage better understanding on the topic before making such erroneous claims.

Originally posted by Rudy2shoes
I know anyone that understands combustion of refined oil products knows,
what I am talking about.

Anyone who has even a basic understanding of combustion, aircraft, or thermodynamics knows that you are stating utterly ignorant claims as if they're fact. I agree that aircraft produce pollution, and that some of the additives in fuel may be harmful. I agree that contrails have negative consequences. But that is not reason enough to fabricate mistruths and mislead others.