How do elites escape chemtrails?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
That's one of the parameters that has to be met for a contrail to persist. There has to be particle saturation. For it to persist and not dissipate, there has to be more at work than just particle saturation. Something has to keep it from the normal process of agglomeration and fall.

Contrail persistence has ZERO to do with particles - particles only affect the initial formation. Once a contrails has formed enough to be visible, the factor controlling persistence is ice-supersaturation. It's the same conditions required for high clouds to persist.

Formation, Properties and Climatic Effects of Contrails

Contrails persist if the ambient humidity is larger than saturation humidity over ice surfaces (relative humidity over ice RHi larger than 100 %). In such ice-supersaturated air masses, the ice particles within the contrails grow by deposition of water vapour molecules from the ambient air. Contrails may persist as long as the ambient air in which the contrail forms stays ice-supersaturated

reply to post by totallackey

I take it you believe Carnicorn and Thomas are true scientists. Fine. My only question to you at this point is: Why has there been no lawsuit filed over the chemtrails?

I think Einstein was a clerk, a job his Dad helped him find because he was mostly unemployed.

Don't know much about Carnicom, personally, except for the things he has written on chemtrails but here is an excerpt from a biography:

Mr. Clifford E. Carnicom

Clifford also worked as a technical research scientist acting in a professional capacity supporting analysis and development of major Department of Defense physical and weapons modeling systems, with extensive computer programming and system application development experience. He has held a Top Secret/SCI clearance. He was appointed for and completed two years of intensive graduate level studies in mathematics, statistics, computer science, and geodesy under the auspices of the Department of Defense.

Also don't know much about Thomas other than that he's a well known journalist of the investigative reporter variety and know him also only from the things he's written about chemtrails and 'smart' particles. Here's an excerpt from some biographical material on him:

William Thomas

William Thomas is an award-winning journalist specializing in news the mainstream media does not report. During and immediately after the Gulf War, he served five months in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait as a member of a three-man environmental emergency response team. A professional journalist since the mid 1960's, his writing and photography have appeared in more than 50 publications in 8 countries. William is the author of five books, as well as several electronic books dealing with cell phones and other electromagnetic hazards.

I believe there are a number of court processes in the works dealing with some different aspects of geoengineering. Court cases against corporations or military industrial complexes are never a slam dunk. Take a look at asbestos, for instance, whose harmful effects have been known since at least Roman Empire times (2000 years) and which only comparatively recently won compensation for victims. And even though the EPA has since declared 'no safe level of exposure', it's still in use in, for instance, India. It's still being mined and shipped there for use in building houses. The new corporate line is that it's coated now to remove the danger or that only a certain shape was harmful and now a different shape particle is being used. Corporations, in our world, have infinite resources and gangs of lawyers to come up with ever more convoluted and diverse appeals and reasonings.

The people, as a consumer group, can wield power through refusal to purchase, for instance, GMO. That's a comparatively quick way to bring a mega-corporation to it's knees. But how would one wield that with chemtrails? A military industrial complex may be run on profit via their contracts and many people do profit from the government but it's not quite the same as taking on a corporation that understands money and concedes by paying money because loss of profit is the only thing they do understand and the only thing that hurts enough to change their behavior. Chemtrailing for national security is an altogether different animal to haul into court.

reply to post by Uncinus

Contrail persistence has ZERO to do with particles - particles only affect the initial formation. Once a contrails has formed enough to be visible, the factor controlling persistence is ice-supersaturation. It's the same conditions required for high clouds to persist.

I don't think that a thread titled 'How do elites escape chemtrails?' is a proper venue for a discussion on heterogenous versus homogenous freezing. Further, I don't think much of the study you put forth because it seems to want to shoot itself in the foot in its' efforts to explain an apparent anomaly, i.e. why a contrail would persist in atmosphere not conducive to the formation of natural cirrus. And in fact why would it form at all in air that is not saturated enough for that to happen.

Formation, Properties And Climatic Effects Of Contrails

Contrails form and persist also in weakly ice-supersaturated air.

Another example of altering science to fit. And it doesn't end there:

Since contrail persistence requires at least ice saturation, a sky full of contrails but without natural cirrus shows that cases occur with humidity above ice-saturation but below the threshold for cirrus formation.

I'm going to link you to an extremely well written and well thought out explanation of this matter by Carnicom. It contains something for everyone.

Persistent Contrails, Chemtrails and the Relative Humidity Deception

Observations by this researcher as well as countless citizens of the country for the past 2 1/2 years have revealed the glaring inconsistencies of the official positions and statements made in contrast to the physical reality of a tragically altered atmosphere resulting from the aircraft operations under examination. These records have been most dramatically illustrated in the arid high desert regions of the southwestern United States, where the physical contradictions with the proffered official positions are at the level of absurdity.

To offer any extraordinary and exceptional circumstances to the American public as an explanation for the events now witnessed on a regular basis is deceptive, disingenuous and a prevarication. It is important that the citizenry educate themselves on the facts and physics of the world around themselves to serve the purpose of establishing the truthfullness of that which the public is subjected to without their consent.

Further, as I stated earlier, it's tiresome to have studies of chemtrails continually trotted out and represented as studies of contrails. It makes a lot of sense that governments would be keen to study the results of their geoengineering. And that's all it is. It's not nice to try and make me and Joe and Jane public believe that it's some 'normal' thing and not the result of willful action.

reply to post by luxordelphi

Further, as I stated earlier, it's tiresome to have studies of chemtrails continually trotted out and represented as studies of contrails. It makes a lot of sense that governments would be keen to study the results of their geoengineering. And that's all it is. It's not nice to try and make me and Joe and Jane public believe that it's some 'normal' thing and not the result of willful action.

Here is a quick way to handle debunkers...ready for this?

Bring some actual evidence and please stop trying to post evidence that will be easily proven to be incorrect or even outright wrong.

That is all you have to do, simple as that..

Also please show some evidence that large scale geoengineering is taking place right now, or even in the past that has anything to do with chemtrails?

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

Further, as I stated earlier, it's tiresome to have studies of chemtrails continually trotted out and represented as studies of contrails. It makes a lot of sense that governments would be keen to study the results of their geoengineering. And that's all it is. It's not nice to try and make me and Joe and Jane public believe that it's some 'normal' thing and not the result of willful action.

Here is a quick way to handle debunkers...ready for this?

Bring some actual evidence and please stop trying to post evidence that will be easily proven to be incorrect or even outright wrong.

That is all you have to do, simple as that..

Also please show some evidence that large scale geoengineering is taking place right now, or even in the past that has anything to do with chemtrails?

I think you will have more luck finding the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow than what your asking for.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Further, I don't think much of the study you put forth because it seems to want to shoot itself in the foot in its' efforts to explain an apparent anomaly, i.e. why a contrail would persist in atmosphere not conducive to the formation of natural cirrus.

But that's not an anomaly. That's how it works.

Cirrus clouds form when RHW is above 100%
Contrails persist when RHI is above 100%, which is about 60% to 70% RHW.
Hence contrails can persist when cirrus clouds cannot form.

That's all there is to it. Simple science.

access to deep undergrounds and advanced filtration security measures.

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by luxordelphi

There are a number of ready answers to this question and I'm interested in what ATsers think so I'm just going to put forth the most obvious one:

1. It's not harmful.

2. It doesn't exist

Which of these two seems more likely: the elite secretly spraying something that's harmless, or the elite not spraying anything?

Neither of these is LIKELY. A more likely scenario is that they are spraying to alter weather patterns, block out and absorb harmful radiation, play around with some new cloud formations for God-Knows What, or do it "just-because they can," however, I personally believe it more likely to be of "military program."

reply to post by elrem48


And even that seems less likely than a huge increase in the number of large aircraft flying and increased engine efficiency are causing more contrails than befoeer due to reasonably well known factors!

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by elrem48

 

And even that seems less likely than a huge increase in the number of large aircraft flying and increased engine efficiency are causing more contrails than befoeer due to reasonably well known factors!

What's "less likely" is the swaying of anyone's opinion to the opposite of what they believe now....such an obstinate bunch we are!:up

reply to post by elrem48


True. But we all seem to enjoy trying don't we

I think the OP was directed at the people that think that TPTB are using chemtrails to poison the populous. Check out some of the threads in the chemtrails forum. You'll see what I mean.

You do know that "populous" is an ADJECTIVE, and can't be used the way you just did, don't you? You probably mean "populace", of which the word you chose is a misspelling.

reply to post by luxordelphi


If i was to conclude from this, anything, it would be that it is merely a catalyst. And that economy price food that we consume is the second part of the puzzle which activates these chems and possibly virus contained in our vaccines?
It could be purely for geological engineering purposes...
OR maybe they're all reptilians and their biological defences are far more superior to our weak human systems

Who knows? I'll stick to wearing my scarf over my nose for now.. Haha.

If anyone wants to build a fire under those trying to cover up chemtrails, then it might be good to look for any Boron compounds involved in Bee CCD problems. Look especially for Boric Acid being connected with Bees disappearing and CCD, as it will relate to chemtrails.


Tell the Honey Bee keepers to test for Boron in Bee Honey, Bee Hives, and dead Bees.


If that is discovered, Chemtrails will become high profile and get even more serious exposure.

reply to post by MagnumOpus

If anyone wants to build a fire under those trying to cover up chemtrails, then it might be good to look for any Boron compounds involved in Bee CCD problems. Look especially for Boric Acid being connected with Bees disappearing and CCD, as it will relate to chemtrails.

Try this...

Before trying to lump everything to chemtrails, prove they (chemtrails) actually exist.

One conspiracy at a time.

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

If anyone wants to build a fire under those trying to cover up chemtrails, then it might be good to look for any Boron compounds involved in Bee CCD problems. Look especially for Boric Acid being connected with Bees disappearing and CCD, as it will relate to chemtrails.

Try this...

Before trying to lump everything to chemtrails, prove they (chemtrails) actually exist.

One conspiracy at a time.

They exist.

Just because you want to play skeptic doesn't mean the world does.


Once anyone that knows science learns of Boron nitride, and that is works the same way as silver iodide, except Boron Nitride does its thing at 35,000 ft., where the water in air is low and it just makes persistent clouds and not rain.

However, the compound of Boron at lower altitudes is Boric Acid, a common well known pesticide, that kills bees.

Let them test for it.

MagnumOpus
[They exist.

no they don't - see - I can say things too.

Just because you want to play skeptic doesn't mean the world does.

Just because you have an overactive imagination doesn't mean they do either.

Once anyone that knows science learns of Boron nitride, and that is works the same way as silver iodide, except Boron Nitride does its thing at 35,000 ft., where the water in air is low and it just makes persistent clouds and not rain.

Lots of people know about Boron Nitride - different versions of it aer used as lubrication enhancers of abrasives since they have different properties - one version is almost as hard a diamond.

It has been used in cosmetics since at least 1940.

It is only you who is ignorant about it.

However, the compound of Boron at lower altitudes is Boric Acid,

boron nitride exists at lo altitude too.

a common well known pesticide, that kills bees.

Let them test for it.

Boric acid - used for all sorts of things - I recall washing powder adverts from the 70's that included borax.

over 600,000 tonnes of boric acid is produced each year - and as you say it is a well known insecticide.

so when you find boric acid in the environment how will that show anything about "chemtrails"?

Aloysius the Gaul

MagnumOpus
[They exist.

no they don't - see - I can say things too.

Just because you want to play skeptic doesn't mean the world does.

Just because you have an overactive imagination doesn't mean they do either.

Once anyone that knows science learns of Boron nitride, and that is works the same way as silver iodide, except Boron Nitride does its thing at 35,000 ft., where the water in air is low and it just makes persistent clouds and not rain.

Lots of people know about Boron Nitride - different versions of it aer used as lubrication enhancers of abrasives since they have different properties - one version is almost as hard a diamond.

It has been used in cosmetics since at least 1940.

It is only you who is ignorant about it.

However, the compound of Boron at lower altitudes is Boric Acid,

boron nitride exists at lo altitude too.

a common well known pesticide, that kills bees.

Let them test for it.

Boric acid - used for all sorts of things - I recall washing powder adverts from the 70's that included borax.

over 600,000 tonnes of boric acid is produced each year - and as you say it is a well known insecticide.

so when you find boric acid in the environment how will that show anything about "chemtrails"?

edit on 12-3-2014 by Aloysius the Gaul because: quote tag

Such ignorance-----another ill attempt to mislead people. You produce more garbage than a dump.


The tests look only at the hive contamination, the honey contamination, and the dead bee contamination. Then the exact determination can be made to see if any of those three areas have enough Boron contamination to harm bees.


If it does have serious levels of Boron------then look at all potential sources and include chemtrail sources.


Pretty simple and just like a murder investigation.

MagnumOpus


Such ignorance-----another ill attempt to mislead people. You produce more garbage than a dump.

I refer to sources - facts and figures - seems to me you are saying anything factual is garbage.

The tests look only at the hive contamination,

civic air quality is measured in hundreds or thousands of cities around the world every day - I wasn't limiting anyone to only testing hives - that is your problem, not mine.

the honey contamination, and the dead bee contamination. Then the exact determination can be made to see if any of those three areas have enough Boron contamination to harm bees.


If it does have serious levels of Boron------then look at all potential sources and include chemtrail sources.

What chemtrail sources?

Pretty simple and just like a murder investigation.

simple - sure - that which can be asserted without evidence can be denied without evidence - there is no verifiable evidence chemtrails exist, hence is nothing relating to boron from them

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul



Nobody cares how much Boron China makes. This is a directed specific search for contamination.

All that noise------Beekeepers need to test for Boric Acid in their hives, honey, and dead bees.


Won't hurt one thing----but it might set off a huge storm on chemtrails if anyone finds Boric Acid killing their Bees.


Which is why you are about to mess in your pants over the simple suggestion.