How do elites escape chemtrails?

Originally posted by Rudy2shoes

Originally posted by Thorazine
reply to post by Rudy2shoes

 

That ordinary contrails inadvertently affect local weather is a long way from a purposeful "spray" campaign of unknown intent....

Since ordinary contrails can persist for hours and spread- and always have- seeing one or more do so should not be construed as a " chemtrail" because you read it on the Internet and heard it on Alex Jones and don't remember seeing them before.

....that there are over 40,000 flights every day in the US and many of those flights are bound to leave persistent contrails and cross paths whilst doing so does not mean "chemtrails" are real.

I have been told they could fly lower,
use more fuel, not make contrails,
but profits would suffer.
Even thought the same elites own the oil company's, that sell fuel to airlines,
it appears they want to burn the candle at both ends for max profits.
There is no profit in my opinion,
so I never expect it to be accepted.
I accept your idea of profit, that you will never be able to experience,
but have been convince you need to defend it for them.

Your ideas about "elites" and profits doesn't change the fact that seeing a persistent contrail - or several- in the sky is not evidence of a purposeful, clandestine "spray" campaign...

Flying lower to avoid contrails is a trade off as burning more fuel leads to more emissions- planes are always spewing plenty of pollution whether a contrail is visible or not. Its a choice between more water vapor or more CO2 and pollution.

I am, in fact, happy that the airlines can make a profit (albeit razor thin) and stay in business as I use their services often and benefit greatly from them.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h

So, how would that work with flu shots being given before 1990? Surely your not actually going to believe this are you?

Never had a flu shot; ever. That's all I know about that.

So, Let me get this right your saying that there is no proof that what we see in the sky are actually contrails,correct?

Yes.

Don't take this the wrong way, but seriously where do you come up with some of this stuff?

It comes straight out of the studies that you all put up. (With the exception of the study on drought and contrail cirrus which is one I put up in a thread some time ago.) (With further exceptions of studies on the DOD developing carbon nanotubes for use as the 'new flak'.) (And with some further exceptions too numerous to mention right now.)

reply to post by flyswatter

You could say that we're at an impasse here, except for the fact that contrails have been studied for decades. You may not like or agree with contrail science, but there is enough proof to go with contrail science to show (at the very minimum) that they can and do persist under certain conditions.

Have never believed that I, with words, will ever convince you of chemtrails. You will have to see it for yourself. Look up.

There is no 'contrail science'. For the rest, I agree with you...contrails, classic contrails, can, in perfect conditions, persist for, perhaps, 15 minutes.

reply to post by RoScoLaz


Thx. for your contribution. There are a number of contributors to this thread who allege that they believe that elites are not affected by chemtrails because elites are aliens or have hybridized themselves. I'll do a tally later, which won't be very scientific because ATS is a unique group, to see how many actually responded in each category. In this thread I was truly interested to hear from ATSers on how elites, themselves, escape chemtrails and so thankyou for taking the time.

reply to post by luxordelphi


There most certainly is proof that persistent, spreading contrails exist...they have been sampled many times over the past 40yrs, they have been replicated in labs, they have been observed by satellite, lidar, spectrometers and more...They have been observed by people, photographed filmed and understood to exist for decades.

We know exactly how and why they form, persist and spread and thus one should expect to see them as a result of regular airline travel.

Whilst it is true that without testing/inspecting each individual trail you see you cannot say with absolute certainty that the trail in question is not nefarious in intent...the probability that it is merely an expected contrail is extremely high.

Of course, one cannot say with certainty that any cat you see is a real cat and not a robot cat unless you...er...sample the cat...the chances are quite likely that it is real. Suggesting it is otherwise is based nothing more than ignorance, myth and fear...

...such as it is with "chemtrails".

Anyone who sees a suspicious trail in the sky and cannot fly up and sample it should follow the methodology of this gentleman in this paper- where he identified several persistent, spreading contrails...and the flights they came from:

journals.ametsoc.org...

Originally posted by luxordelphi

There is no 'contrail science'. For the rest, I agree with you...contrails, classic contrails, can, in perfect conditions, persist for, perhaps, 15 minutes.

You cling to this dogma...but can you provide ANY actual evidence to support this claim or ANY reasoning based on scientific principals or ANYTHING more than a random quote from a WW2 pilot...

A pilot who said that they lasted "15 minutes or MORE"

Can you explain why a cloud can persist for longer than 15 minutes but a contrail can't?

Why do you ignore the decades of data that contradicts you? The decades of observation, decades of photos, decades of sampling?

Why doesn't a single atmospheric scientist ANYWHERE in the World agree with you?

check out this paper where they go back and study satellite images from 1977-79 and identify many persistent contrails:

journals.ametsoc.org...

here is a satellite image from 1977- look at all the persistent contrails:

preview.tinyurl.com...

34 different user names responded so far.

Some were humorous responses and I grouped those in undecided/non-responsive.

Some were known chemtrail debunkers and I grouped those in #1.

Several chemtrail debunkers did respond to why would elites bring, for instance, global dimming upon themselves and their responses were in line with #10 but I grouped them in #1.

This is not in any way scientific - just wanted an idea of how this business of elites spraying themselves gets justified. When there's a global assault on life, like chemtrailing, it's prudent to shore up all possible objections while going forward to fight this and this will help me on that. The atmosphere, our atmosphere, I always thought belonged to us. There don't seem to be any laws or protections or recognized ownership beyond no-fly zones and protected air space. The atmosphere seems to be under assault in similar fashion to what's currently happening in the Amazon where existing indigenous rights are not respected because there is no paper. The atmosphere, imo, belongs to all of us and it's not stationary but circulates so that what is done overhead from a country or state with lax laws or from private land winds up affecting the globe.

How Do Elites Escape Chemtrails?

9 said #1 Chemtrails don't exist so elites are not bothered.
6 said #2 Elites have the antidote to chemtrails.
5 said #3 Unresponsive.
5 said #4 Chemtrails protect us as well as elites.
3 said #5 Elites are aliens or hybridized and unaffected.
2 said #6 Chemtrail spraying stops when elites prepare to enter an area.
1 said #7 Elites avoid chemtrail activating substances.
1 said #8 Chemtrails are not harmful to us or elites.
1 said #9 Elites are secure underground or in other safe areas.
1 said #10 "The elite never need to protect themselves from profit, regardless of the side effects." 1+

Just a note on #10 - there are a lot of industries that we, those fighting against chemtrails, diss as a side-effect. Some of these corporations are mega and they will fight back to keep their profits. They won't fight fair and they won't care about you or me or the environment - they will only care about their bottom line. IMO, it was the Treaty of Versailles that started us on this tragic road of global corporate rulership and that was in 1914 so it's taken a while to get where we are now which is that we don't even have a say anymore on whether we get sunlight or not or whether we are able to see stars or not.

reply to post by luxordelphi

It comes straight out of the studies that you all put up. (With the exception of the study on drought and contrail cirrus which is one I put up in a thread some time ago.) (With further exceptions of studies on the DOD developing carbon nanotubes for use as the 'new flak'.) (And with some further exceptions too numerous to mention right now.)

So then you are able to provide the exaxct wording that shows from those studies that it says that it cannot be proven what you see in the skies today are actually contrails?

Secondly I take it you have no idea what flak is do you?

What does anti aircraft munitions fired from the ground have anythging to do with chemtrails?

flak also flack (flk)
n.
1.
a. Antiaircraft artillery.
b. The bursting shells fired from such artillery.

2. Informal
a. Excessive or abusive criticism.
b. Dissension; opposition.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

So again the question is where do you come up with this stuff, seriously?

reply to post by luxordelphi

IMO, it was the Treaty of Versailles that started us on this tragic road of global corporate rulership and that was in 1914 so it's taken a while to get where we are now which is that we don't even have a say anymore on whether we get sunlight or not or whether we are able to see stars or not.

So I find it funny that I can go right out my front door whether it is in the day time or the night and look up and see stars at night and the sun in the day,and there is not one person or corporation telling me I can't see either one whenever I please. The exeption here being the weather,but I guess the weather is being controlled by big corporate and gov't entities or at least by your train of thought,correct?

So 1914 you say....

The Treaty of Versailles (French: le Traité de Versailles) was one of the peace treaties at the end of World War I. It ended the state of war between Germany and the Allied Powers. It was signed on 28 June 1919, exactly five years after the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. The other Central Powers on the German side of World War I were dealt with in separate treaties.[1] Although the armistice signed on 11 November 1918, ended the actual fighting, it took six months of negotiations at the Paris Peace Conference to conclude the peace treaty. The treaty was registered by the Secretariat of the League of Nations on 21 October 1919, and was printed in The League of Nations Treaty Series.

en.wikipedia.org...

The question again is where do you come up with some of this stuff, as you are consistent with misrepresenting history and evidence that you think proves chemtrail existence and that the gov't or big corporate entities are behind this hoax.

reply to post by luxordelphi

When there's a global assault on life, like chemtrailing, it's prudent to shore up all possible objections while going forward to fight this and this will help me on that.

"...global assault on life..." Do you have any data indicating life has been adversely affected by airline exhaust? Do you have any data indicating life has been adversely affected by automotive/truck/heavy diesel equipment exhaust (other than someone locking themselves inside a garage with the vehicle running in order to commit suicide)?

I have begged, borrowed, and pleaded with you, to come up with some clear cut evidence the contrails are chemtrails. It is NOT to difficult come up with evidence against mega corporations in order to file a successful lawsuit. She is working on fracking, for which there is SOME evidence (jury still out in my opinion) it MAY be harmful. If there was anything to your claims, she would get right on it.

The elites are not worried about escaping, "chemtrails," because:

A) They are SMART enough to KNOW chemtrails do not exist; and,
B) They are busy worried about plots of dirt and barrels of oil in the Middle East. For religious, political, and monetary reasons. Mostly MONEY, the love of which is the root of all evil.

reply to post by luxordelphi


Hi Lux
A thread I started about current news and government spraying in the past.
And it describes how they would spray from the top of buildings on the poor neighborhoods.


Profit for a Cold War with Collateral American Civilian Damage.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.ksdk.com...
gradworks.umi.com...

reply to post by luxordelphi


Because the upper .1% don't live anywhere near where the chemtrails are.
When and if they ever need to go there the chemtrails stop a week or so before they step foot off their plane.

reply to post by VforVendettea


The atmosphere, and anything in it at seven miles high, goes right around the globe so that argument doesn't work.

it is an interesting exercise to read this thread again - it amazes me how chemtrail proponents add layer after layer of extra complexity in response to flaws in thier origional hypothisis - untull they have a unique " answer " to a single issue - that invariably contradicts other chemtrail hypothesies

reply to post by totallackey

I have begged, borrowed, and pleaded with you, to come up with some clear cut evidence the contrails are chemtrails.

The myth of outrageously persistent contrails has become a danger to Americans because it illogically pooh poohs the very real biological consequences of breathing nano size heavy metals. So far, in the years of threads on ATS, no evidence of outrageously persistent contrails has been offerred. In order to prove that the sky grids now persistently over American skies are composed of 'normal' contrails, a string of parameters need to be shown as met. These parameters are impossible to show short of flying behind each supposed contrail product and sampling temperature, humidity, particle saturation, exhaust heat, storm front potential and altitude.

The elites are not worried about escaping, "chemtrails," because: B) They are busy worried about plots of dirt and barrels of oil in the Middle East. For religious, political, and monetary reasons. Mostly MONEY, the love of which is the root of all evil.

You're on the right track here, imo, but leaving out chemtrails and their connection to the middle east and failing to account for their advent coincidental with the middle east wars is going to put you way off the scent.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by totallackey

 

I have begged, borrowed, and pleaded with you, to come up with some clear cut evidence the contrails are chemtrails.

The myth of outrageously persistent contrails has become a danger to Americans because it illogically pooh poohs the very real biological consequences of breathing nano size heavy metals. So far, in the years of threads on ATS, no evidence of outrageously persistent contrails has been offerred. In order to prove that the sky grids now persistently over American skies are composed of 'normal' contrails, a string of parameters need to be shown as met. These parameters are impossible to show short of flying behind each supposed contrail product and sampling temperature, humidity, particle saturation, exhaust heat, storm front potential and altitude.

Or someone could sample a small number of "chemtrails" to show that they exist in the first place, rather than requiring that every contrail be sampled to show they do not exist.

Originally posted by VforVendettea
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

Because the upper .1% don't live anywhere near where the chemtrails are.
When and if they ever need to go there the chemtrails stop a week or so before they step foot off their plane.

Thankyou for your contribution. This reason was the one that I had hoped would get explored in this thread but you can't always get what you want and the peanut gallery is ever distracting. Recently I have read about global stratospheric circulation patterns. Atmospheric ejections flow away from the tropics (the equator) to mid-latitudes and on to the poles. This seemed to tie in with elite activity in Paraguay and Kenya, areas in the tropics, which would be unaffected or less affected by chemtrails. So...yeah.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Or someone could sample a small number of "chemtrails" to show that they exist in the first place, rather than requiring that every contrail be sampled to show they do not exist.

This doesn't work for me because your entire theory of outrageously persistent contrails is based on an assumption. So it's not a question of showing that persistent contrails, of perhaps 15 minutes, exist...that was shown in WWII. It's a question of showing that the things that persist for hours and hours and expand from willful grids to cover an entire American sky are contrails because they meet no WWII contrail parameters.

Further, your usual smoke and mirrors (smoke as in WWII and mirrors as in nano aluminum) is boring. Bring something real to the table.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Or someone could sample a small number of "chemtrails" to show that they exist in the first place, rather than requiring that every contrail be sampled to show they do not exist.

This doesn't work for me because your entire theory of outrageously persistent contrails is based on an assumption.

Define "outrageously", and what is my assumption?

There is a wealth of scientific evidence that contrails can persist for many hours and spread over wide areas:

here
here
here - 5.6mb pdf

So it's not a question of showing that persistent contrails, of perhaps 15 minutes, exist...that was shown in WWII.

well thank heavens for that, since I wasn't talking about that at all.....

It's a question of showing that the things that persist for hours and hours and expand from willful grids to cover an entire American sky are contrails because they meet no WWII contrail parameters.

What WW2 parameters?? contrails in WW2 certainly did expand across the entire sky

And actually, again, that isnt' what my post was about - my post was pointing out that if chemtrails exist it should be relatively easy to sample one and prove it.

And yet chemtrail believers always mange to either ignore or argue against such a simple and obvious idea. Can't imagine why they do that.....

Further, your usual smoke and mirrors (smoke as in WWII and mirrors as in nano aluminum) is boring.

Science and verifiable fact is often boring - you don't get to play around inventign stuff you would like to be true when you use it...you have to stick with what you can actually justify.

And yet you always seem to find it interesting enough to respond to.......

Bring something real to the table.

lol - that is rich coming from you in a post where you use perjorative language and make suggestions that you don't bother substantiating!!

but already done anyway

reply to post by luxordelphi


It is a waste product of profits,
they don't want us to complain about the waste products, of profit.
Corporations have always found a need to defend the waste from profit,
and ridicule anyone that points it out.